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Post by jay17 on Aug 18, 2015 19:40:26 GMT -5
"We think that we resist certain states because they are there, but actually they are there because we resist them." This does explain the illogical way some Advaitaits argue, and why we do not get along due to vastly different ways of constructing our conclusions about existence. What Adyashanti said sounds so wondrous and mega spiritual, so profoundly mystical...on paper, but when applied to the real world, it instantly falls flat. Take confusion. Adyashanti claims that as soon as i accept that i am confused about something, i will cease being confused about it. That i am only confused because i resist being confused. So, i'm in me ute traveling to a new destination. I come to a 3 way intersection, the mud map someone gave me says to turn left. Me Navsat tells me to turn right. I examine the landscape and compass directions and think going straight ahead is the correct way. I am in a hurry and need to get there at a certain time and i am currently confused to which is the correct way to go. Adyashanti claims that all i have to do is stop resisting my confusion. That as soon as i accept i am confused, i will cease being confused and will now know the correct way to the destination. Then there's the application of his equation to positive states. Whatever you resist you become. If you resist peace, you are always peaceful. If you resist joy, you are always joyful. If you resist well being, you are always being well. If you resist understanding(the correct\best way\the truth),you will always understand(the correct\best way\the truth) According to his equation, my current state of being that is nearly 24\7 peaceful and joyful, is because i am resisting being peaceful and joyful. Nah, to me that's just illogical and an utterly useless process to achieve a better quality of life via a better state of being. The only thing i agree with in Adyashanti's equation is the process of acceptance. If i am depressed\have depression, i cannot resolve the mechanisms that drive my Depression until i fully accept i am depressed. This simple concept has been known for centuries, all over the world. "The first step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one" "The first step in solving a problem is to recognize that it does exist." Accepting a problem exists does not solve it. Acceptance is merely the first step in the process. If i deny\resist i am depressed, i will not not allocate any time to discovering and resolving the driving mechanisms. My hope for humanity is spiritual people will stop hating on Thinking and will spend more time doing it when formulating their conclusions about existence.
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Post by quinn on Aug 18, 2015 19:58:10 GMT -5
"We think that we resist certain states because they are there, but actually they are there because we resist them." This does explain the illogical way some Advaitaits argue, and why we do not get along due to vastly different ways of constructing our conclusions about existence. What Adyashanti said sounds so wondrous and mega spiritual, so profoundly mystical...on paper, but when applied to the real world, it instantly falls flat. Take confusion. Adyashanti claims that as soon as i accept that i am confused about something, i will cease being confused about it. That i am only confused because i resist being confused.So, i'm in me ute traveling to a new destination. I come to a 3 way intersection, the mud map someone gave me says to turn left. Me Navsat tells me to turn right. I examine the landscape and compass directions and think going straight ahead is the correct way. I am in a hurry and need to get there at a certain time and i am currently confused to which is the correct way to go. Adyashanti claims that all i have to do is stop resisting my confusion. That as soon as i accept i am confused, i will cease being confused and will now know the correct way to the destination. Then there's the application of his equation to positive states. Whatever you resist you become. If you resist peace, you are always peaceful. If you resist joy, you are always joyful. If you resist well being, you are always being well. If you resist understanding(the correct\best way\the truth),you will always understand(the correct\best way\the truth) According to his equation, my current state of being that is nearly 24\7 peaceful and joyful, is because i am resisting being peaceful and joyful. Nah, to me that's just illogical and an utterly useless process to achieve a better quality of life via a better state of being. The only thing i agree with in Adyashanti's equation is the process of acceptance. If i am depressed\have depression, i cannot resolve the mechanisms that drive my Depression until i fully accept i am depressed. This simple concept has been known for centuries, all over the world. "The first step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one" "The first step in solving a problem is to recognize that it does exist." Accepting a problem exists does not solve it. Acceptance is merely the first step in the process. If i deny\resist i am depressed, i will not not allocate any time to discovering and resolving the driving mechanisms. My hope for humanity is spiritual people will stop hating on Thinking and will spend more time doing it when formulating their conclusions about existence. He didn't actually say that. He simply said if you resist confusion you will stay confused. He didn't guarantee resolution. If you're confused and you don't resist it, it opens the possibility of the confusion being resolved, so it may or may not but has a better chance. Basically it means that when you stop resisting something, it allows it 'move'. Focusing on confusion takes the focus away from opening up to something that may help resolve the confusion.
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Post by earnest on Aug 19, 2015 1:15:12 GMT -5
"We think that we resist certain states because they are there, but actually they are there because we resist them." This does explain the illogical way some Advaitaits argue, and why we do not get along due to vastly different ways of constructing our conclusions about existence. What Adyashanti said sounds so wondrous and mega spiritual, so profoundly mystical...on paper, but when applied to the real world, it instantly falls flat. Take confusion. Adyashanti claims that as soon as i accept that i am confused about something, i will cease being confused about it. That i am only confused because i resist being confused.So, i'm in me ute traveling to a new destination. I come to a 3 way intersection, the mud map someone gave me says to turn left. Me Navsat tells me to turn right. I examine the landscape and compass directions and think going straight ahead is the correct way. I am in a hurry and need to get there at a certain time and i am currently confused to which is the correct way to go. Adyashanti claims that all i have to do is stop resisting my confusion. That as soon as i accept i am confused, i will cease being confused and will now know the correct way to the destination. Then there's the application of his equation to positive states. Whatever you resist you become. If you resist peace, you are always peaceful. If you resist joy, you are always joyful. If you resist well being, you are always being well. If you resist understanding(the correct\best way\the truth),you will always understand(the correct\best way\the truth) According to his equation, my current state of being that is nearly 24\7 peaceful and joyful, is because i am resisting being peaceful and joyful. Nah, to me that's just illogical and an utterly useless process to achieve a better quality of life via a better state of being. The only thing i agree with in Adyashanti's equation is the process of acceptance. If i am depressed\have depression, i cannot resolve the mechanisms that drive my Depression until i fully accept i am depressed. This simple concept has been known for centuries, all over the world. "The first step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one" "The first step in solving a problem is to recognize that it does exist." Accepting a problem exists does not solve it. Acceptance is merely the first step in the process. If i deny\resist i am depressed, i will not not allocate any time to discovering and resolving the driving mechanisms. My hope for humanity is spiritual people will stop hating on Thinking and will spend more time doing it when formulating their conclusions about existence. He didn't actually say that. He simply said if you resist confusion you will stay confused. He didn't guarantee resolution. If you're confused and you don't resist it, it opens the possibility of the confusion being resolved, so it may or may not but has a better chance. Basically it means that when you stop resisting something, it allows it 'move'. Focusing on confusion takes the focus away from opening up to something that may help resolve the confusion. I'm with you on this Quinn. My health isn't all that great and I was quite tired this morning, and I was resisting it, wishing I wasn't tired, thinking about work I needed to do and how it was probably going to be hard because I was tired... etc etc etc. Thankfully on this occasion I turned towards tiredness and the resistance and listened to it with no hope of resolution or a fix, just bare looking. After a while the resistance to it subsided and I was left with just tiredness, and the tiredness was just fine. Strange how there is so little payoff to resistance, but such a strong habit to do it.
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Post by quinn on Aug 19, 2015 7:52:08 GMT -5
He didn't actually say that. He simply said if you resist confusion you will stay confused. He didn't guarantee resolution. If you're confused and you don't resist it, it opens the possibility of the confusion being resolved, so it may or may not but has a better chance. Basically it means that when you stop resisting something, it allows it 'move'. Focusing on confusion takes the focus away from opening up to something that may help resolve the confusion. I'm with you on this Quinn. My health isn't all that great and I was quite tired this morning, and I was resisting it, wishing I wasn't tired, thinking about work I needed to do and how it was probably going to be hard because I was tired... etc etc etc. Thankfully on this occasion I turned towards tiredness and the resistance and listened to it with no hope of resolution or a fix, just bare looking. After a while the resistance to it subsided and I was left with just tiredness, and the tiredness was just fine. Strange how there is so little payoff to resistance, but such a strong habit to do it. That's so very true and is going to be part of my contemplation today. You've got kind of a double-whammy there: resistance is an energy sucker and you're already tired. I wonder if the act of resistance has some appeal because it does ramp up energy, kind of like the way sugar or caffeine does. Makes us feel a bit more 'alive' for a short time and then...............crash. I forget what your health issue is - is it CFS?
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Post by jay17 on Aug 19, 2015 13:45:46 GMT -5
He didn't actually say that. He simply said if you resist confusion you will stay confused. He didn't guarantee resolution. If you're confused and you don't resist it, it opens the possibility of the confusion being resolved, so it may or may not but has a better chance. Basically it means that when you stop resisting something, it allows it 'move'. Focusing on confusion takes the focus away from opening up to something that may help resolve the confusion. Seems to me you are ignoring his last statement... "We think that we resist certain states because they are there, but actually they are there because we resist them." He actually did "guarantee resolution". He claims that when you stop resisting being confused, that is, when you fully accept you are confused, confusion just disappears...and it does so because he thinks that the act of resisting is what makes the confusion manifest in the first place. I stand by my previous observations.
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Post by earnest on Aug 19, 2015 15:41:33 GMT -5
I'm with you on this Quinn. My health isn't all that great and I was quite tired this morning, and I was resisting it, wishing I wasn't tired, thinking about work I needed to do and how it was probably going to be hard because I was tired... etc etc etc. Thankfully on this occasion I turned towards tiredness and the resistance and listened to it with no hope of resolution or a fix, just bare looking. After a while the resistance to it subsided and I was left with just tiredness, and the tiredness was just fine. Strange how there is so little payoff to resistance, but such a strong habit to do it. That's so very true and is going to be part of my contemplation today. You've got kind of a double-whammy there: resistance is an energy sucker and you're already tired. I wonder if the act of resistance has some appeal because it does ramp up energy, kind of like the way sugar or caffeine does. Makes us feel a bit more 'alive' for a short time and then...............crash. I forget what your health issue is - is it CFS? Nah it's crohns. I think some types can have a energising effect. Getting all indignant about stuff can sure stir things up I don't think you can just choose on the spot to just stop resisting, or to accept things as they are - otherwise I (and probably a lot of others) would have done that a long time ago. Seems to me that if you're on the spiritual path it just take a while to sort itself out I also like this old formula : Suffering = pain x resistance
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Post by quinn on Aug 19, 2015 19:47:02 GMT -5
He didn't actually say that. He simply said if you resist confusion you will stay confused. He didn't guarantee resolution. If you're confused and you don't resist it, it opens the possibility of the confusion being resolved, so it may or may not but has a better chance. Basically it means that when you stop resisting something, it allows it 'move'. Focusing on confusion takes the focus away from opening up to something that may help resolve the confusion. Seems to me you are ignoring his last statement... "We think that we resist certain states because they are there, but actually they are there because we resist them." He actually did "guarantee resolution". He claims that when you stop resisting being confused, that is, when you fully accept you are confused, confusion just disappears...and it does so because he thinks that the act of resisting is what makes the confusion manifest in the first place. I stand by my previous observations. Ok, yeah I did skate past that. It does sound like those states only exist because we resist them and if we stop resisting they're gone, so I see where you're coming from. I still read it differently, though, and that might be because I've read and listened to Adya a lot. Could just be my interpretation, though. "If you resist anger, you are always angry." Notice the 'always' part. Logically, you might say no - we're not always angry, even if we resist anger. But I think he's saying that resistance creates an undercurrent of unexpressed/unacknowledged anger on some level. That's the state that's always there in "We think we resist certain states because they are there, but actually they are there because we resist them." There's also a more subtle take - that resistance would only come from the ego, from the little 'me', so in resisting we bolster up the ego. Ego loves to have something to work against , so it creates (in a sense) problems to be resisted. Actually, the second one sounds to me more like something Adya would talk about.
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Post by quinn on Aug 19, 2015 20:00:19 GMT -5
That's so very true and is going to be part of my contemplation today. You've got kind of a double-whammy there: resistance is an energy sucker and you're already tired. I wonder if the act of resistance has some appeal because it does ramp up energy, kind of like the way sugar or caffeine does. Makes us feel a bit more 'alive' for a short time and then...............crash. I forget what your health issue is - is it CFS? Nah it's crohns. I think some types can have a energising effect. Getting all indignant about stuff can sure stir things up I don't think you can just choose on the spot to just stop resisting, or to accept things as they are - otherwise I (and probably a lot of others) would have done that a long time ago. Seems to me that if you're on the spiritual path it just take a while to sort itself out I also like this old formula : Suffering = pain x resistance Oh, right - Chrohn's. That's a tough one. When it flares up, I can't imagine being able to sit there and say, "Ok, I'm not going to hate that I feel this awful." Yeah - I agree about choosing to stop resisting. Mostly I just try to notice when I'm doing it. It is kind of laughable though, when you think about it. Classic Byron Katie quote: "When I argue with reality, I lose—but only 100% of the time"
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 19, 2015 20:05:17 GMT -5
Seems to me you are ignoring his last statement... "We think that we resist certain states because they are there, but actually they are there because we resist them." He actually did "guarantee resolution". He claims that when you stop resisting being confused, that is, when you fully accept you are confused, confusion just disappears...and it does so because he thinks that the act of resisting is what makes the confusion manifest in the first place. I stand by my previous observations. Ok, yeah I did skate past that. It does sound like those states only exist because we resist them and if we stop resisting they're gone, so I see where you're coming from. I still read it differently, though, and that might be because I've read and listened to Adya a lot. Could just be my interpretation, though. "If you resist anger, you are always angry." Notice the 'always' part. Logically, you might say no - we're not always angry, even if we resist anger. But I think he's saying that resistance creates an undercurrent of unexpressed/unacknowledged anger on some level. That's the state that's always there in "We think we resist certain states because they are there, but actually they are there because we resist them." There's also a more subtle take - that resistance would only come from the ego, from the little 'me', so in resisting we bolster up the ego. Ego loves to have something to work against , so it creates (in a sense) problems to be resisted. Actually, the second one sounds to me more like something Adya would talk about. Resisting anger can also be in the form of, say, living/dealing/having to put up with an angry/cantankerous/impatient/mean-spirited other. What form does the resistence usually take in this instance? Most of us use anger against anger and some of us begin to use it as an ongoing defence against the other, or even the whole world. Few, in my experience, are honestly able to NOT return anger for anger, insult for insult, hurt for hurt, cruelty for cruelty etc. Not until we begin to detach from thoughts and feelings by resting in the very awareness that knows their coming and going anyway.
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Post by quinn on Aug 19, 2015 21:02:22 GMT -5
Ok, yeah I did skate past that. It does sound like those states only exist because we resist them and if we stop resisting they're gone, so I see where you're coming from. I still read it differently, though, and that might be because I've read and listened to Adya a lot. Could just be my interpretation, though. "If you resist anger, you are always angry." Notice the 'always' part. Logically, you might say no - we're not always angry, even if we resist anger. But I think he's saying that resistance creates an undercurrent of unexpressed/unacknowledged anger on some level. That's the state that's always there in "We think we resist certain states because they are there, but actually they are there because we resist them." There's also a more subtle take - that resistance would only come from the ego, from the little 'me', so in resisting we bolster up the ego. Ego loves to have something to work against , so it creates (in a sense) problems to be resisted. Actually, the second one sounds to me more like something Adya would talk about. Resisting anger can also be in the form of, say, living/dealing/having to put up with an angry/cantankerous/impatient/mean-spirited other. What form does the resistence usually take in this instance? Most of us use anger against anger and some of us begin to use it as an ongoing defence against the other, or even the whole world. Few, in my experience, are honestly able to NOT return anger for anger, insult for insult, hurt for hurt, cruelty for cruelty etc. Not until we begin to detach from thoughts and feelings by resting in the very awareness that knows their coming and going anyway. Yeah, that's an interesting scenario. I think there's a way to acknowledge the anger that arises, but not express it in a way that just escalates things. Tricky, though. I'm not a fan of detaching from thoughts and feelings. Witnessing, yes. Not forming a sense of self from, yes. But detaching - no. It seems like an inauthentic way to move in the world.
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 19, 2015 21:07:01 GMT -5
Resisting anger can also be in the form of, say, living/dealing/having to put up with an angry/cantankerous/impatient/mean-spirited other. What form does the resistence usually take in this instance? Most of us use anger against anger and some of us begin to use it as an ongoing defence against the other, or even the whole world. Few, in my experience, are honestly able to NOT return anger for anger, insult for insult, hurt for hurt, cruelty for cruelty etc. Not until we begin to detach from thoughts and feelings by resting in the very awareness that knows their coming and going anyway. Yeah, that's an interesting scenario. I think there's a way to acknowledge the anger that arises, but not express it in a way that just escalates things. Tricky, though. I'm not a fan of detaching from thoughts and feelings. Witnessing, yes. Not forming a sense of self from, yes. But detaching - no. It seems like an inauthentic way to move in the world. The word as I'm using it means the same as your witnessing.
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Post by earnest on Aug 20, 2015 7:05:23 GMT -5
Nah it's crohns. I think some types can have a energising effect. Getting all indignant about stuff can sure stir things up I don't think you can just choose on the spot to just stop resisting, or to accept things as they are - otherwise I (and probably a lot of others) would have done that a long time ago. Seems to me that if you're on the spiritual path it just take a while to sort itself out I also like this old formula : Suffering = pain x resistance Oh, right - Chrohn's. That's a tough one. When it flares up, I can't imagine being able to sit there and say, "Ok, I'm not going to hate that I feel this awful." Yeah - I agree about choosing to stop resisting. Mostly I just try to notice when I'm doing it. It is kind of laughable though, when you think about it. Classic Byron Katie quote: "When I argue with reality, I lose—but only 100% of the time" Thanks for talking about what you're experiencing. I would like to hear more about what people *actually experience* in their adventures in spirituality (not what they think about someone else's thoughts.. Which I guess is what they're experiencing... But ya'know,.. Ah Frick nice hole I'm digging,. I'll stop now)
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Post by quinn on Aug 20, 2015 8:12:04 GMT -5
Yeah, that's an interesting scenario. I think there's a way to acknowledge the anger that arises, but not express it in a way that just escalates things. Tricky, though. I'm not a fan of detaching from thoughts and feelings. Witnessing, yes. Not forming a sense of self from, yes. But detaching - no. It seems like an inauthentic way to move in the world. The word as I'm using it means the same as your witnessing. Oh, ok - sorry. I had a bunch of other stuff I wrote but the connection here is iffy and decided to eat my post. I guess that's for the best, though, because talking about resistance to emotions was getting into the anger conversation. And I think that one needs a break. Or I need a break from it.
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Post by quinn on Aug 20, 2015 8:13:02 GMT -5
Oh, right - Chrohn's. That's a tough one. When it flares up, I can't imagine being able to sit there and say, "Ok, I'm not going to hate that I feel this awful." Yeah - I agree about choosing to stop resisting. Mostly I just try to notice when I'm doing it. It is kind of laughable though, when you think about it. Classic Byron Katie quote: "When I argue with reality, I lose—but only 100% of the time" Thanks for talking about what you're experiencing. I would like to hear more about what people *actually experience* in their adventures in spirituality (not what they think about someone else's thoughts.. Which I guess is what they're experiencing... But ya'know,.. Ah Frick nice hole I'm digging,. I'll stop now)
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 20, 2015 8:28:35 GMT -5
The word as I'm using it means the same as your witnessing. Oh, ok - sorry. I had a bunch of other stuff I wrote but the connection here is iffy and decided to eat my post. I guess that's for the best, though, because talking about resistance to emotions was getting into the anger conversation. And I think that one needs a break. Or I need a break from it.
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