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Post by laughter on Jan 25, 2014 9:57:05 GMT -5
Greetings.. Rules of civility sound like a good idea, but the peril is a suppression of what people really have on their minds. To state the obvious, the forum split could allow for the best of both worlds: rules could be enforced on the GSD side and content that violated them moved from there to here. The trick, the nuance -- and it's something that my guess is that noone will ever be able to get just right -- is how to structure the rules such that they don't either kill the soul of the discussion before it gets started on one hand, or allow it to spin into absurdity by way of a lack of control on the other. Eventually, the civility has to emerge from the equanimity of the community itself, as there is no legislating kindness and respect. It seems that what people really have on their minds in the unmoderated section is provocation, intimidation, and uncivil conflicts of opinion.. why else have such a section? do you fear moderating conflict because your group of aligned comrades rely on that form of influencing the awareness of others, as opposed civil discussion? did you create the unmoderated section to allow for a certain group to use certain aggressive tactics to advance the forum's sanctioned agenda? Be well.. Before I answer this, do you remember the events that led up to the creation of the Unmoderated Section? Do you recall the decisions that were made, who was involved, etc? If you do, can you please state them?
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Post by laughter on Jan 25, 2014 9:57:53 GMT -5
Noone has reported a post other than as a joke in quite a long time. I wasn't talking about reported posts, I was talking about the posts that you have decided to move i.e. the ones that aren't suitable for NAT's. Yes, as I said a the top of the thread: the poll is not about deleting posts, it is about moving posts.
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Post by laughter on Jan 25, 2014 10:00:56 GMT -5
A policy of deletion creates a dispute with the one who generated the content that is a much different dispute than a post moved. Can you imagine if you spend 10 minutes writing two or three paragraphs, and then come back and it's simply vanished? Two things in reply here: 1) You're right, there is probably too much nuance in the approach of this poll. Doesn't look as though there's any interest in voting. Now I think this tells me something, but in order to be certain, I'll start a simple poll "do you want rules applied to the GSD? yes or no ...". 2) I've moved far more of Reefs and Enigma's content since I started than figgy or Andy's. Just try to imagine moderating Tzu's content. Just think about it for a few minutes. If you are going to start a poll, the question is, should I move inappropriate posts and start a new thread, or should I delete them (and maybe leave a polite message)? There may also be a third or fourth option that I can't see. I've had posts deleted on other forums, it can be vaguely annoying when it happens, but then again, it was breaking the rules. If someone is concerned they can always copy and paste the message they write, and then write it again without offence. Apparently quite a few here copy and paste their messages anyway because of forum glitches. Well that's your question, but you are neither the moderator nor the entire community ... although anyone is free to start a poll at any time.
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Post by andrew on Jan 25, 2014 10:03:34 GMT -5
I wasn't talking about reported posts, I was talking about the posts that you have decided to move i.e. the ones that aren't suitable for NAT's. Yes, as I said a the top of the thread: the poll is not about deleting posts, it is about moving posts. The poll itself doesn't make sense to me because I can't see the point in having a NAT and then not doing something about offending messages. Its either move them and start a new thread, delete them, or get rid of the idea of a NAT thread. If there is another option, I can't see it.
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Post by andrew on Jan 25, 2014 10:06:07 GMT -5
If you are going to start a poll, the question is, should I move inappropriate posts and start a new thread, or should I delete them (and maybe leave a polite message)? There may also be a third or fourth option that I can't see. I've had posts deleted on other forums, it can be vaguely annoying when it happens, but then again, it was breaking the rules. If someone is concerned they can always copy and paste the message they write, and then write it again without offence. Apparently quite a few here copy and paste their messages anyway because of forum glitches. Well that's your question, but you are neither the moderator nor the entire community ... although anyone is free to start a poll at any time. Believe it or not, I don't care enough to start a poll on it. If you don't want to, fine.
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Post by laughter on Jan 25, 2014 10:10:47 GMT -5
Yes, as I said a the top of the thread: the poll is not about deleting posts, it is about moving posts. The poll itself doesn't make sense to me because I can't see the point in having a NAT and then not doing something about offending messages. Its either move them and start a new thread, delete them, or get rid of the idea of a NAT thread. If there is another option, I can't see it. The poll isn't about enforcing rules in a NAT. The poll is a question about enforcing rules in a non-NAT.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 10:11:55 GMT -5
I voted NO, since no body else wants to vote on your stewpid poll
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Post by laughter on Jan 25, 2014 10:12:04 GMT -5
Well that's your question, but you are neither the moderator nor the entire community ... although anyone is free to start a poll at any time. Believe it or not, I don't care enough to start a poll on it. If you don't want to, fine. That you would spend so much energy both on the topic and on topics related to it indicates otherwise.
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Post by laughter on Jan 25, 2014 10:13:14 GMT -5
I voted NO, since no body else wants to vote on your stewpid poll
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Post by andrew on Jan 25, 2014 10:14:27 GMT -5
The poll itself doesn't make sense to me because I can't see the point in having a NAT and then not doing something about offending messages. Its either move them and start a new thread, delete them, or get rid of the idea of a NAT thread. If there is another option, I can't see it. The poll isn't about enforcing rules in a NAT. The poll is a question about enforcing rules in a non-NAT. Ohhhhhh. I don't know. I can't see the point in moving messages from one public unmoderated thread to another public unmoderated thread but if someone wanted to I don't have an issue with it. I don't see this as a question of 'moderation' though, more just like a personal preference kind of thing. Or are you talking about messages that are in the moderated section, that aren't specifically the NAT's? If so, I can't see the point at all in that particular group of messages.
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Post by andrew on Jan 25, 2014 10:15:06 GMT -5
Believe it or not, I don't care enough to start a poll on it. If you don't want to, fine. That you would spend so much energy both on the topic and on topics related to it indicates otherwise. I know. There we go though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 10:24:19 GMT -5
Deleting posts should be a non starter
Moving posts all willy nilly like has been a disaster
Less is more
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 10:40:45 GMT -5
Rules of civility are vague and would simply leave it up to your personal interpretation, and that has been proven not to work time and again on internet forums. Rules are something that a moderator should be able to enforce without personal interpretation. I suggest two simple rules: No mind reading and no name calling. Mind-reading is telling another person that they think, feel or mean 'this'. It is not difficult to say "in my interpretation..." or "in my opinion..." or "from my perspective/view...". Moreover, that approach encourages self-honesty. The second rule "no name calling" seems self-explanatory, but here may have to include the use of pictures connected to name calling. The problem with your poll here laffy, as Quinn pointed out, is that it doesn't set out the rules of moderation... without that being stated, then the moderated choice is ambiguous. First things first 'leaf. If there are no interest in rules sourcing from the community, then why spend time concocting them? The poll is an economy of thought in that it includes two dynamics in an entanglement: 1) It is an advertisement of the type of service that I'm very willing to offer -- move content out of one section into another. The question of deleting content is a whole other discussion. If someone wants me to use that kind of violence then there would likely be quite a bit of per-instance litigation. The only harm to moving content is confusion on the part of those prone to it. 2) It's a fishing expedition to see if anyone's interested in rules. If noone votes here soon I'll start another poll that will crystallize the question. I will wait until you ask the more significant question about what the rules for the moderated forum should be. You seem to be taking the pain-staking way around and around what, to me, seems to be pretty simple if you want it to be.
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Post by tzujanli on Jan 25, 2014 23:01:09 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. It seems that what people really have on their minds in the unmoderated section is provocation, intimidation, and uncivil conflicts of opinion.. why else have such a section? do you fear moderating conflict because your group of aligned comrades rely on that form of influencing the awareness of others, as opposed civil discussion? did you create the unmoderated section to allow for a certain group to use certain aggressive tactics to advance the forum's sanctioned agenda? Be well.. Before I answer this, do you remember the events that led up to the creation of the Unmoderated Section? Do you recall the decisions that were made, who was involved, etc? If you do, can you please state them? I do recall the events, and i'm not interested in negotiating for your involvement in a discussion.. if you are interested is a discussion, great, if you want to play teacher and quiz people, do that with someone else.. why not stop playing games and offer authentic discussion, discussion where you aren't trying to establish dominance through negotiation.. I know the history of the 'split', the NATs, and the forum's former claim of its intended agenda, my interest is in where the forum is headed.. you are doing an admirable job avoiding the issues and protecting your alliances, but that's all just attachment to beliefs and the past, creating illusions.. you're blurring the lines between moderator and dictator.. It is disingenuous to move posts from the moderated section to the unmoderated section for the purposes of attacking the messenger or the message, while claiming to protect people from attack.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jan 26, 2014 4:56:18 GMT -5
Greetings.. Before I answer this, do you remember the events that led up to the creation of the Unmoderated Section? Do you recall the decisions that were made, who was involved, etc? If you do, can you please state them? I do recall the events, and i'm not interested in negotiating for your involvement in a discussion.. if you are interested is a discussion, great, if you want to play teacher and quiz people, do that with someone else.. why not stop playing games and offer authentic discussion, discussion where you aren't trying to establish dominance through negotiation.. I know the history of the 'split', the NATs, and the forum's former claim of its intended agenda, my interest is in where the forum is headed.. you are doing an admirable job avoiding the issues and protecting your alliances, but that's all just attachment to beliefs and the past, creating illusions.. you're blurring the lines between moderator and dictator.. It is disingenuous to move posts from the moderated section to the unmoderated section for the purposes of attacking the messenger or the message, while claiming to protect people from attack.. Be well.. You indicated that I created the Unmoderated section. Is that what happened? Do you remember the events or not?
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