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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2013 19:21:48 GMT -5
having said that...you know too much....only go straight, and not know. "not know" what? my first grade teacher pointed at a bunch of squiggly lines; a, b, c,.. now I know what they are used for, and that knowledge is useful I can't not know what they are now, why would I even want to? that usefulness would be lost, and I would be illiterate When there is a use for your ABC's, let them be used, otherwise, don't know.....the letters will appear when they are needed, as will everything else....let them do so. Most of the time I think you will find that 'knowing' is not actually needed for much in this life, on a percentage of time bases anyway ;-) You spend almost every second of your waking hours knowing, defining, categorizing, and recognizing....but really, you can spend at least 80% of your waking hours 'not knowing' anything at all and still be perfectly functional....probably much more than 80% ;-) I am working everyday as an analyst and only know things for an hour or so spread out over the whole day, a few minutes really, and am quite productive :-) 'not knowing' in regards to practical information like your ABC's does not mean you lose ACCESS to information, it just means you are not constantly moving into accessing it as you are now....see if you can look upon the world without moving into recognition or familiarity of anything.....recognizing is a kind of knowing, its the result of moving into a memory based familiarity....try looking at the world, experiencing it, without the subtle mind movement of recognizing and familiarity...just look, without defining, categorizing, recognizing, or moving into a familiarity of anything...the other kind of knowing relates to your 'big ideas' and understandings.....let them go altogether...especially those existential one's....don't be attached to, or 'hang your hat' on ANY knowing. be alert, without knowing.
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Post by acewall on Dec 3, 2013 19:34:33 GMT -5
does the I exist? of course not. I is simply one moments viewing-station, here today dispersed tomorrow each day another I arises. I after I after I the imagined-identity endeavors to make something of it's Self, that which is already united.
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Post by earnest on Dec 3, 2013 20:43:12 GMT -5
"not know" what? my first grade teacher pointed at a bunch of squiggly lines; a, b, c,.. now I know what they are used for, and that knowledge is useful I can't not know what they are now, why would I even want to? that usefulness would be lost, and I would be illiterate When there is a use for your ABC's, let them be used, otherwise, don't know.....the letters will appear when they are needed, as will everything else....let them do so. Most of the time I think you will find that 'knowing' is not actually needed for much in this life, on a percentage of time bases anyway ;-) You spend almost every second of your waking hours knowing, defining, caregorizing, and recognizing....but really, you can spend at least 80% of your waking hours 'not knowing' anything at all and still be perfectly funcional....probably much more than 80% ;-) I am working everyday as an analyst and only know things for an hour or so spread out over the whole day, a few minutes really, and am quite productive :-) 'not knowing' in regards to practical information like your ABC's does not mean you lose ACCESS to information, it just means you are not constantly moving into accessing it as you are now....see if you can look upon the world without moving into recognition or familiarity of anything.....recognizing is a kind of knowing, its the result of moving into a memory based familiarity....try looking at the world, experiencing it, without the subtle mind movement of recognizing and familiarity...just look, without defining, categorizing, recognizing, or moving into a familiarity of anything...the other kind of knowing relates to your 'big ideas' and understands.....let them go altogether...especially those existential one's....don't be attached to, or 'hang your hat' on ANY knowing. be alert, without knowing.Nice. Would you say that's the same as Nisargadatta's pay attention to the sense I am?
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Post by laughter on Dec 3, 2013 20:51:19 GMT -5
My first reaction to the question was "well the cat sure knows if it's alive or not!". really, just thinking inside the box. it's comfy in here until that vial breaks!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2013 21:52:27 GMT -5
I just do what's in front of me. :-)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2013 22:23:43 GMT -5
When there is a use for your ABC's, let them be used, otherwise, don't know.....the letters will appear when they are needed, as will everything else....let them do so. Most of the time I think you will find that 'knowing' is not actually needed for much in this life, on a percentage of time bases anyway ;-) You spend almost every second of your waking hours knowing, defining, caregorizing, and recognizing....but really, you can spend at least 80% of your waking hours 'not knowing' anything at all and still be perfectly funcional....probably much more than 80% ;-) I am working everyday as an analyst and only know things for an hour or so spread out over the whole day, a few minutes really, and am quite productive :-) 'not knowing' in regards to practical information like your ABC's does not mean you lose ACCESS to information, it just means you are not constantly moving into accessing it as you are now....see if you can look upon the world without moving into recognition or familiarity of anything.....recognizing is a kind of knowing, its the result of moving into a memory based familiarity....try looking at the world, experiencing it, without the subtle mind movement of recognizing and familiarity...just look, without defining, categorizing, recognizing, or moving into a familiarity of anything...the other kind of knowing relates to your 'big ideas' and understands.....let them go altogether...especially those existential one's....don't be attached to, or 'hang your hat' on ANY knowing. be alert, without knowing.Nice. Would you say that's the same as Nisargadatta's pay attention to the sense I am? The 'result' is the same....Nisargardata is recommending a very simple method, a kind of effortless practice so to speak, but like all practices, they deepen and broaden over time for most people. The initial approach is slightly different than the one Nisargadata recomended. He has said to give your FULL and constant attention to the sense of 'I Am', exclude everything else from your attention bu the sense 'I Am'. At first this is diffucult, but very quickly becomes easy. When it has become easy, when you can remain effortlessly and alertly with the attention on the sense of 'I am', without the mind clinging to other things, other knowings, then you will be alert without knowing. Its a good method for those who are easily distracted and not yet good at allowing stillness, alertness, and not knowing to be the natural state. It gives you something to focus your attention on anyplace at anytime. The 'I am' is always there, just silently being and aware, so you can place your attention on it anytime and in anyplace....doing so with your full attention as much and as often as you can will draw you into the spaciousness of being alert without knowing. But really, many folks these days can just 'go right to it' so to speak....and be alert, without knowing. The key is recognizing the background familiarity that you are constantly and unconsciously moving into....observe how you move into familiarity with almost everything you see or hear, how you move unconciously into a kind of recognition of everything, a knowing or familiarity with everything you encounter. Observe it so that you are not longer doing this in the background unconsciously, and just quit doing it...no effort is required other than alertness. Look, without unconciously moving into defining and categorizing, and more subtly into recognizing and familiarity....experience the world conciously as if you are seeing everything for the very first time (in fact you are at every moment), look and listen for the first time without any words to describe it, or familiarity to recognize it...essentually, this is the state of being centered in the basic sense of 'I Am'. When you give full attention to something, you become centered in it, absorbed in it so to speak....if you become centered in the basic sense of 'I am' then you will be alert without knowing....alternatively, just be aware of, concious of the movement of knowing and familiarity arising in response to nearly every stimuli, if you are concious of it, then you can just 'not do', when you are not concious of doing something, you cannot 'not do', especially if the 'doing' is habitualized, and there is nothing more habitualized in an adult than knowing, recognizing, and being familiar with the world of phenomena....so first, you will need to be alert, and concious of your nearly constant movement into remembering and being familiar with nearly everything that appears to you....through conciousness, through alertness, you can 'not do' knowing... If you can be alert, and not know, you are as 'Buddha' as Buddha gets so to speak....you are no different than a Niz or a Ramana in your inner nature, and its not difficult, it only requires a little alertness, and not knowing.
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Post by lolly on Dec 3, 2013 22:36:11 GMT -5
really, just thinking inside the box. it's comfy in here until that vial breaks! Possibly, there is no world beyond these walls.
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Post by Reefs on Dec 3, 2013 23:44:03 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I know I exist? You may know that freejoy exists, but does existence know that it exists?! Nonsensical no-brainer.
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Post by Reefs on Dec 3, 2013 23:45:03 GMT -5
An older boy made me ask the question! On one hand, there is this idea that we can look inward and inquire, and on the other is the idea that there are no sincere questions because you already know the answer and are just fooling yourself that you don't. There is no conceptual resolution to this. Seeing it for what it is is enough.Yes. And the seeing doesn't require any additional commentary track.
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Post by Reefs on Dec 3, 2013 23:46:41 GMT -5
be alert, without knowing. That's an end, not a means to an end. That has to be understood.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2013 0:57:24 GMT -5
be alert, without knowing. That's an end, not a means to an end. That has to be understood. The means IS the end, and the end IS the means.
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Post by laughter on Dec 4, 2013 6:16:25 GMT -5
it's comfy in here until that vial breaks! Possibly, there is no world beyond these walls. Possibly?
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Post by laughter on Dec 4, 2013 6:17:03 GMT -5
On one hand, there is this idea that we can look inward and inquire, and on the other is the idea that there are no sincere questions because you already know the answer and are just fooling yourself that you don't. There is no conceptual resolution to this. Seeing it for what it is is enough.Yes. And the seeing doesn't require any additional commentary track. Nope.
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Post by lolly on Dec 4, 2013 6:58:44 GMT -5
Possibly, there is no world beyond these walls. Possibly? We won't know until we look, and until we do, it is and it isn't, simultaneously.
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Post by laughter on Dec 4, 2013 7:00:45 GMT -5
We won't know until we look, and until we do, it is and it isn't, simultaneously. That world is the looking.
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