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Post by laughter on Dec 1, 2013 19:22:21 GMT -5
be willing to go as deeply as it may go. O.k. I'd call that fearlessness but ... I'm not attached to that use of the word.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 19:33:38 GMT -5
Hello Laughter, I don't put much thought into real versus illusion. It just doesn't matter much over here ;-) Either side of the fence that you fall on is just a mental position, something to hold onto so to speak...with the exception that continuously viewing the world and self as illusion is one of the ancient and effective techniques. For me, fear seems to be the direct result of attachment, a wanting to keep something the same that is inevitably going to blossom into something new, while Love is the experiencing of the Grace of God in all its various forms, aspects, and presentations. When we want something that is going to change to stay the same, we experience fear. Cling to nothing, and accept change with serenity, and there is no fear. "Here is the sphere of change change change, through change, consume change." Everything that appears in this sphere was born of change and will pass on to something new through change, everything is in a continuous state of change....by recognizing this in all things, and accepting, observing, and allowing, without clinging to that which will inevitably change due to it's very nature of flowing and blossoming, we are centered in the changeless, the eternal that pervades all change....in the absence of attachment, living in full 'in-joyment' of the blossoming change, there is no fear, and much Grace. Relating fear to change is an interesting route to take. I'll offer the opinion that not all resistance to change necessarily involves fear, but I do see how, at least without contemplating it too much, fear can always be associated with some sort of resistance to change, and thereby, attachment. So how do you see that translating in the context of self-realization? What is the change that is subject to resistance in that context? Most seekers seem to start out seeking an enlightenment or realization that will augment or add to what they already are without fundamentally altering their experience of self....but somewhere along the way they begin imagining that realization will either fundamentally alter them, or completely undo their current experience of self or something along those lines. So an attachment to the current experience of self, or a fear of change in the experience of self, becomes a self maintained roadblock. Ironically, most get what they were originally seeking before the imagination kicked in and created all those vague ideas about realization fundamentally altering the experience of self. Realization doesn't fundamentally alter the actual current experience of self, rather, it expands it in such a way that the current experience of self by the seeker is pushed back into the proper perspective....one might say that this shift and broadening of perspective IS a fundamental shift in the experience of self, and yet, the original experience of the self by the seeker still remains tucked in there within the broadened perspective, or broadened self awareness....said another way, even if the experience of self is seen to be an illusion, the experience still remains, so nothing is 'lost' as is often imagined. But still, the seeker imagines that the experience of self will be fundamentally altered, and attachment to the current experience of self can, and usually does result in fear at some point in the journey to where you already are....its important to not be overcome by that fear, to be brave and courageous, otherwise fear will win, and there will be no 'letting go'. Without the 'letting go' of attachment, suffering will result, and joy will be elusive, as will Realization be elusive.
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Post by laughter on Dec 1, 2013 20:30:39 GMT -5
Relating fear to change is an interesting route to take. I'll offer the opinion that not all resistance to change necessarily involves fear, but I do see how, at least without contemplating it too much, fear can always be associated with some sort of resistance to change, and thereby, attachment. So how do you see that translating in the context of self-realization? What is the change that is subject to resistance in that context? Most seekers seem to start out seeking an enlightenment or realization that will augment or add to what they already are without fundamentally altering their experience of self....but somewhere along the way they begin imagining that realization will either fundamentally alter them, or completely undo their current experience of self or something along those lines. So an attachment to the current experience of self, or a fear of change in the experience of self, becomes a self maintained roadblock. Ironically, most get what they were originally seeking before the imagination kicked in and created all those vague ideas about realization fundamentally altering the experience of self. Realization doesn't fundamentally alter the actual current experience of self, rather, it expands it in such a way that the current experience of self by the seeker is pushed back into the proper perspective....one might say that this shift and broadening of perspective IS a fundamental shift in the experience of self, and yet, the original experience of the self by the seeker still remains tucked in there within the broadened perspective, or broadened self awareness....said another way, even if the experience of self is seen to be an illusion, the experience still remains, so nothing is 'lost' as is often imagined. But still, the seeker imagines that the experience of self will be fundamentally altered, and attachment to the current experience of self can, and usually does result in fear at some point in the journey to where you already are....its important to not be overcome by that fear, to be brave and courageous, otherwise fear will win, and there will be no 'letting go'. Thanks steve, that's a lucid statement of the pattern I was curious about. Without the 'letting go' of attachment, suffering will result, and joy will be elusive, as will Realization be elusive. Beyond the link you make between fear rooted in attachment to a given sense of self as a roadblock, I see the topics of letting go, suffering and joy in general as a completely different discussion.
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