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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 8:19:37 GMT -5
There seems to be a common understanding that experience/conditioning/cultural beliefs etc., influence the way people interpret/perceive the world within them and around them. It is an idea with evidence to support it from numerous social and psychological studies.
It's also an idea that forms the backbone of various spiritual concepts and/or practises. But there are two that seem at odds with each other.
The first is the idea of getting rid of/ignoring/denying the self/mind that is created from experience etc. The intent being to be free of illusion.
The second is to dive into the mind and be aware of the way in which experience etc influences the view. The intent being to see what is there for the illusion that it is, and to live with it. In this way, one might see the emotion as emotion, ideas as ideas, imagination as imagination etc and find where best to use them, and where best not to.
I understand more about the second than the first here, because that is the way I live my life.
But it is up here for discussion. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 24, 2013 9:14:22 GMT -5
First and second are not in opposition. The only way to get to the first is to go through the second.
sdp
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 11:41:18 GMT -5
First and second are not in opposition. The only way to get to the first is to go through the second. sdp That is an interesting possibility. Some years ago, I came across someone telling how their were enlightened ones who no longer held any attachment to their minds, but in that state, there was no place for them but in a monastery where they could maintain no mind. The less enlightened of that monastery took care of the physical needs of the enlightened ones in order for them to be in that state within a body. In this way, whilst I believe in the possibility that the second will lead to the first... I feel that leaving the mind is best placed at the time of physical death. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 12:26:04 GMT -5
There seems to be a common understanding that experience/conditioning/cultural beliefs etc., influence the way people interpret/perceive the world within them and around them. It is an idea with evidence to support it from numerous social and psychological studies.
It's also an idea that forms the backbone of various spiritual concepts and/or practises. But there are two that seem at odds with each other.
The first is the idea of getting rid of/ignoring/denying the self/mind that is created from experience etc. The intent being to be free of illusion.
The second is to dive into the mind and be aware of the way in which experience etc influences the view. The intent being to see what is there for the illusion that it is, and to live with it. In this way, one might see the emotion as emotion, ideas as ideas, imagination as imagination etc and find where best to use them, and where best not to.
I understand more about the second than the first here, because that is the way I live my life.
But it is up here for discussion. The me can't get rid of the me because that would mean it seeks it's own absence. That possibility can Happen, but it's not anything the me can make Happen, because me is an illusion. The intent to be free of illusion is not Freedom, nor is understanding, or clarity, or enlightenment. Freedom is What's Happening
Freedom is pretending to be a me, seeking it's absence so that it can be Freedom...
It's all a very funny Cosmic joke ...
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Post by silence on Nov 24, 2013 13:03:13 GMT -5
There seems to be a common understanding that experience/conditioning/cultural beliefs etc., influence the way people interpret/perceive the world within them and around them. It is an idea with evidence to support it from numerous social and psychological studies.
It's also an idea that forms the backbone of various spiritual concepts and/or practises. But there are two that seem at odds with each other.
The first is the idea of getting rid of/ignoring/denying the self/mind that is created from experience etc. The intent being to be free of illusion.
The second is to dive into the mind and be aware of the way in which experience etc influences the view. The intent being to see what is there for the illusion that it is, and to live with it. In this way, one might see the emotion as emotion, ideas as ideas, imagination as imagination etc and find where best to use them, and where best not to.
I understand more about the second than the first here, because that is the way I live my life.
But it is up here for discussion. Ignoring and denying isn't recommended by virtually anyone. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 14:00:45 GMT -5
There seems to be a common understanding that experience/conditioning/cultural beliefs etc., influence the way people interpret/perceive the world within them and around them. It is an idea with evidence to support it from numerous social and psychological studies.
It's also an idea that forms the backbone of various spiritual concepts and/or practises. But there are two that seem at odds with each other.
The first is the idea of getting rid of/ignoring/denying the self/mind that is created from experience etc. The intent being to be free of illusion.
The second is to dive into the mind and be aware of the way in which experience etc influences the view. The intent being to see what is there for the illusion that it is, and to live with it. In this way, one might see the emotion as emotion, ideas as ideas, imagination as imagination etc and find where best to use them, and where best not to.
I understand more about the second than the first here, because that is the way I live my life.
But it is up here for discussion. Ignoring and denying isn't recommended by virtually anyone. I understand that it can harm a person to try to ignore or deny the self, particularly where there are un dealt with emotions. However, where the illusional 'self' is seen to be a negative attribute if one accepts its existence, then denial of its existence follows. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 15:28:35 GMT -5
Ignoring and denying isn't recommended by virtually anyone. I understand that it can harm a person to try to ignore or deny the self, particularly where there are un dealt with emotions. However, where the illusional 'self' is seen to be a negative attribute if one accepts its existence, then denial of its existence follows. The 'One' that accepts the existence of it's illusory 'self', IS the illusory 'self'...hehe |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 16:06:57 GMT -5
As is the one that rejects the illusory self... it is the perpetual snake that eats its own tail.
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Post by silence on Nov 24, 2013 18:14:03 GMT -5
Ignoring and denying isn't recommended by virtually anyone. I understand that it can harm a person to try to ignore or deny the self, particularly where there are un dealt with emotions. However, where the illusional 'self' is seen to be a negative attribute if one accepts its existence, then denial of its existence follows. I'm not suggesting this sort of thing doesn't happen. Only that I don't know of any school of thought or teaching that suggests ignoring and denying. That's mostly the result of misinterpretation. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 12:35:17 GMT -5
I understand that it can harm a person to try to ignore or deny the self, particularly where there are un dealt with emotions. However, where the illusional 'self' is seen to be a negative attribute if one accepts its existence, then denial of its existence follows. I'm not suggesting this sort of thing doesn't happen. Only that I don't know of any school of thought or teaching that suggests ignoring and denying. That's mostly the result of misinterpretation. I don't know very much about the belief systems that lead to people proposing that one is enlightened when they let go of mind. It is something I've only read about on internet forums. So I would be interested to hear what is meant by letting go of the mind. |
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Post by tzujanli on Nov 27, 2013 18:50:59 GMT -5
Greetings.. I'm not suggesting this sort of thing doesn't happen. Only that I don't know of any school of thought or teaching that suggests ignoring and denying. That's mostly the result of misinterpretation. I don't know very much about the belief systems that lead to people proposing that one is enlightened when they let go of mind. It is something I've only read about on internet forums. So I would be interested to hear what is meant by letting go of the mind. Hi Autumn: You can't 'let go of mind', it's an aspect of what you 'are'.. you can allow it to be still and silent.. you can understand its relationship with the wholeness that is 'you'.. and, you can let go of attachments to the contents of the mind, of the beliefs and illusions that distort the clarity of a still mind's awareness.. i suspect that most people are referring to letting go of the mind's contents when they use the phrase 'letting go of the mind', but.. there are some that believe, or claim that they believe, that it is possible to 'let go of the mind', and.. that is usually followed with a lot of explanations constructed by the mind.. I have no functional understanding of the word 'enlightenment', as there are far too many interpretations of its meaning.. There is a saying i am fond of, a realization i had more than fifteen years ago: "We are traveling to where we have always been, from ignorance to enlightenment.. the vehicle is awareness".. Be well.. |
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Post by silence on Nov 27, 2013 20:49:14 GMT -5
I'm not suggesting this sort of thing doesn't happen. Only that I don't know of any school of thought or teaching that suggests ignoring and denying. That's mostly the result of misinterpretation. I don't know very much about the belief systems that lead to people proposing that one is enlightened when they let go of mind. It is something I've only read about on internet forums. So I would be interested to hear what is meant by letting go of the mind. Letting go of the mind, to me, basically means to stop deriving your sense of reality from thought. You can't let go of mind any more than you can locate it and remove it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2013 15:37:15 GMT -5
Greetings.. I don't know very much about the belief systems that lead to people proposing that one is enlightened when they let go of mind. It is something I've only read about on internet forums. So I would be interested to hear what is meant by letting go of the mind. Hi Autumn: You can't 'let go of mind', it's an aspect of what you 'are'.. you can allow it to be still and silent.. you can understand its relationship with the wholeness that is 'you'.. and, you can let go of attachments to the contents of the mind, of the beliefs and illusions that distort the clarity of a still mind's awareness.. i suspect that most people are referring to letting go of the mind's contents when they use the phrase 'letting go of the mind', but.. there are some that believe, or claim that they believe, that it is possible to 'let go of the mind', and.. that is usually followed with a lot of explanations constructed by the mind.. I have no functional understanding of the word 'enlightenment', as there are far too many interpretations of its meaning.. There is a saying i am fond of, a realization i had more than fifteen years ago: "We are traveling to where we have always been, from ignorance to enlightenment.. the vehicle is awareness".. Be well.. I'd say more, but I agree with what you have said here. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2013 15:42:23 GMT -5
I don't know very much about the belief systems that lead to people proposing that one is enlightened when they let go of mind. It is something I've only read about on internet forums. So I would be interested to hear what is meant by letting go of the mind. Letting go of the mind, to me, basically means to stop deriving your sense of reality from thought. You can't let go of mind any more than you can locate it and remove it. yes, I agree with this too. However, while the sense of reality is created from unconscious conditioning etc, then thought can be a tool to stop reacting to the unconscious in the first instance... to be let go of in the second. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2013 16:55:00 GMT -5
Greetings.. I don't know very much about the belief systems that lead to people proposing that one is enlightened when they let go of mind. It is something I've only read about on internet forums. So I would be interested to hear what is meant by letting go of the mind. Hi Autumn: You can't 'let go of mind', it's an aspect of what you 'are'.. you can allow it to be still and silent.. you can understand its relationship with the wholeness that is 'you'.. and, you can let go of attachments to the contents of the mind, of the beliefs and illusions that distort the clarity of a still mind's awareness.. i suspect that most people are referring to letting go of the mind's contents when they use the phrase 'letting go of the mind', but.. there are some that believe, or claim that they believe, that it is possible to 'let go of the mind', and.. that is usually followed with a lot of explanations constructed by the mind.. I have no functional understanding of the word 'enlightenment', as there are far too many interpretations of its meaning.. There is a saying i am fond of, a realization i had more than fifteen years ago: "We are traveling to where we have always been, from ignorance to enlightenment.. the vehicle is awareness".. Be well.. Well said Tzu |
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