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Post by andrew on Dec 3, 2013 14:56:54 GMT -5
I do understand why you said what you said to Fig, but its an obvious cop out and not really what you thought it meant. You basically put yourself in quite an awkward situation back there. I have no idea what part you're referring to -- that would help -- but you want to help yourself to win an argument with me by not quoting which part you're actually talking about. Talk about a cheater. ''I'm fairly certain that farmer is saying that as in a manner of speaking -- it's just shorthand for they's a mess a'goin' on, heh.'' Its obviously not just what you thought he meant, you're not stupid, you just put yourself in a bit of an awkward situation back there. At this point there's a few different options. You could acknowledge and laugh at the awkward situation that you created, or you could continue to pretend that you really think that that is an accurate assessment of what farmer was saying. You reckon you've learned some stuff in the last few months? As I see it, you're being given an opportunity right now to be honest and move on, and you are also being given an opportunity to continue with the awkward little lie. |
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Post by silver on Dec 3, 2013 15:01:36 GMT -5
I have no idea what part you're referring to -- that would help -- but you want to help yourself to win an argument with me by not quoting which part you're actually talking about. Talk about a cheater. ''I'm fairly certain that farmer is saying that as in a manner of speaking -- it's just shorthand for they's a mess a'goin' on, heh.'' Its obviously not just what you thought he meant, you're not stupid, you just put yourself in a bit of an awkward situation back there. At this point there's a few different options. You could acknowledge and laugh at the awkward situation that you created, or you could continue to pretend that you really think that that is an accurate assessment of what farmer was saying. You reckon you've learned some stuff in the last few months? As I see it, you're being given an opportunity right now to be honest and move on, and you are also being given an opportunity to continue with the awkward little lie. Your refusal to quote what portion of whatever post you're talking about makes YOU the liar, Andy. I have no idea what you're going on about here. |
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Post by andrew on Dec 3, 2013 15:04:53 GMT -5
''I'm fairly certain that farmer is saying that as in a manner of speaking -- it's just shorthand for they's a mess a'goin' on, heh.'' Its obviously not just what you thought he meant, you're not stupid, you just put yourself in a bit of an awkward situation back there. At this point there's a few different options. You could acknowledge and laugh at the awkward situation that you created, or you could continue to pretend that you really think that that is an accurate assessment of what farmer was saying. You reckon you've learned some stuff in the last few months? As I see it, you're being given an opportunity right now to be honest and move on, and you are also being given an opportunity to continue with the awkward little lie. Your refusal to quote what portion of whatever post you're talking about makes YOU the liar, Andy. I have no idea what you're going on about here. What? '' it's just shorthand for they's a mess a'goin' on, heh'' There's still a chance to acknowledge that you created an awkward little position for yourself back there, laugh, and move on. |
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Post by silver on Dec 3, 2013 15:09:19 GMT -5
Your refusal to quote what portion of whatever post you're talking about makes YOU the liar, Andy. I have no idea what you're going on about here. What? '' it's just shorthand for they's a mess a'goin' on, heh'' There's still a chance to acknowledge that you created an awkward little position for yourself back there, laugh, and move on. What's awkard about it? It was a mess, wasn't it? Isn't that different from that you were panicked, which I figured wasn't the case, it was just a mess, what's going on with you? You're not making any sense right now. |
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Post by laughter on Dec 3, 2013 15:11:15 GMT -5
I'm fairly certain that farmer is saying that as in a manner of speaking -- it's just shorthand for they's a mess a'goin' on, heh. Obviously he's not just saying that, and I don't think you think he is either. Here you make a distinction with no purpose behind it but to perpetuate an argument with Silver. |
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Post by andrew on Dec 3, 2013 15:11:16 GMT -5
What? '' it's just shorthand for they's a mess a'goin' on, heh'' There's still a chance to acknowledge that you created an awkward little position for yourself back there, laugh, and move on. What's awkard about it? It was a mess, wasn't it? Isn't that different from that you were panicked, which I figured wasn't the case, it was just a mess, what's going on with you? You're not making any sense right now. Okay. I've followed this up more than enough, I'm going to let it go. |
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Post by laughter on Dec 3, 2013 15:12:10 GMT -5
What's awkard about it? It was a mess, wasn't it? Isn't that different from that you were panicked, which I figured wasn't the case, it was just a mess, what's going on with you? You're not making any sense right now. Okay. I've followed this up more than enough, I'm going to let it go. we'll see.  |
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Post by andrew on Dec 3, 2013 15:14:22 GMT -5
Obviously he's not just saying that, and I don't think you think he is either. Here you make a distinction with no purpose behind it but to perpetuate an argument with Silver. Yes, it was always going to perpetuate argument, but it was also an invitation to be honest and take responsibility for action taken. By the same token, you are perpetuating argument there. |
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Post by laughter on Dec 3, 2013 15:17:14 GMT -5
I'm fairly certain that farmer is saying that as in a manner of speaking -- it's just shorthand for they's a mess a'goin' on, heh. I can only say that I look back at when the BP thread was unfolding, and as I said previously, I saw all that righteous indignation going on within me, and unable to see that it was clouding my view of what they were trying to get me to see. I felt I had a right -- an entitlement to my thread -- but I was holding fast to something that needn't have. What they were trying to get at was far more important, because I could always come back to what I'd started. I was defending a position that I now see as not important at all. I understand Silver that you are looking at this conversation Andrew and I are having, and you are comparing it to your upset over the BP thread and your arrival at a place now, where you see that all differently. The difference is Silver,that you were very, very upset and hurt by what was happening at that time. contrary to what I think some are seeing here, Andrew and I are not very, very upset, or panicked or hurt by any of this, but rather we have an interest in putting forth the idea that divergent opinion need not incite ugliness. We're trying to get those who take things down to the lowest possible denominator here, to look within and to ask themselves, why? I get the sense you want Andrew and I to also look within to ask 'why' we are interested in pursuing this....and I can very honestly say, on my end there's all sorts of looking within and clarity about that, as I imagine there is on Andrew's end. It's important to me because of my values. I value calmness, peace and civility, even when I disagree with another. I think the ability to not get caught up in negative emotion is an important aspect of 'seeing clearly'...and most importantly, of 'being free.' The bottom line is this; It is possible to disagree with someone without mocking them or belittling them. If the urge to be nasty arises, it's could serve as a powerful reminder to 'check oneself.' (hehe...that term is kinda growing on me  ) Well, one way to characterize these last two pages is "good-cop/bad-cop". Andy was clearly being manipulative there in contriving a conflict based on his (classic) supposition of knowing Silver's internal state. |
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Post by silver on Dec 3, 2013 15:18:08 GMT -5
Here you make a distinction with no purpose behind it but to perpetuate an argument with Silver. Yes, it was always going to perpetuate argument, but it was also an invitation to be honest and take responsibility for action taken. By the same token, you are perpetuating argument there. No, he's just serving notice that you've never been one to let things drop. |
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Post by laughter on Dec 3, 2013 15:19:44 GMT -5
Here you make a distinction with no purpose behind it but to perpetuate an argument with Silver. Yes, it was always going to perpetuate argument, but it was also an invitation to be honest and take responsibility for action taken. By the same token, you are perpetuating argument there. Your invitation wasn't sincere. Silver characterized farmer's joke a certain way, and you accused her of being disingenuous with zero basis. The lack of a sense of humor is going to grow your and figgy's enemy list to something outsized and unmanageable. |
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Post by andrew on Dec 3, 2013 15:20:21 GMT -5
I understand Silver that you are looking at this conversation Andrew and I are having, and you are comparing it to your upset over the BP thread and your arrival at a place now, where you see that all differently. The difference is Silver,that you were very, very upset and hurt by what was happening at that time. contrary to what I think some are seeing here, Andrew and I are not very, very upset, or panicked or hurt by any of this, but rather we have an interest in putting forth the idea that divergent opinion need not incite ugliness. We're trying to get those who take things down to the lowest possible denominator here, to look within and to ask themselves, why? I get the sense you want Andrew and I to also look within to ask 'why' we are interested in pursuing this....and I can very honestly say, on my end there's all sorts of looking within and clarity about that, as I imagine there is on Andrew's end. It's important to me because of my values. I value calmness, peace and civility, even when I disagree with another. I think the ability to not get caught up in negative emotion is an important aspect of 'seeing clearly'...and most importantly, of 'being free.' The bottom line is this; It is possible to disagree with someone without mocking them or belittling them. If the urge to be nasty arises, it's could serve as a powerful reminder to 'check oneself.' (hehe...that term is kinda growing on me ) Well, one way to characterize these last two pages is "good-cop/bad-cop". Andy was clearly being manipulative there in contriving a conflict based on his (classic) supposition of knowing Silver's internal state. That's nonsense. The only supposition I have made there is that Silver is clever enough to know that her interpretation that she offered fig was not just what farmer was saying. As for the good cop/bad cop thing...::rolls eyes:: what this last 2 pages show is that me and fig are not so very tied to the hip on the forum that we are unwilling to address things in different ways. |
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Post by andrew on Dec 3, 2013 15:21:09 GMT -5
Yes, it was always going to perpetuate argument, but it was also an invitation to be honest and take responsibility for action taken. By the same token, you are perpetuating argument there. No, he's just serving notice that you've never been one to let things drop. I think that was the other message he wrote that said that. |
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Post by silver on Dec 3, 2013 15:23:30 GMT -5
No, he's just serving notice that you've never been one to let things drop. I think that was the other message he wrote that said that. ...In so many words, Andy, in so many words.  |
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Post by andrew on Dec 3, 2013 15:23:37 GMT -5
Yes, it was always going to perpetuate argument, but it was also an invitation to be honest and take responsibility for action taken. By the same token, you are perpetuating argument there. Your invitation wasn't sincere. Silver characterized farmer's joke a certain way, and you accused her of being disingenuous with zero basis. The lack of a sense of humor is going to grow your and figgy's enemy list to something outsized and unmanageable. farmer made a joke? I missed that, are we talking about the same message? I am talking about farmer referring to us as being in 'absolute panic'. |
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