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Nov 21, 2013 9:27:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 9:27:20 GMT -5
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Nov 21, 2013 10:12:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 10:12:04 GMT -5
from the article: Most people can easily tell the difference between reality and fantasy. We know that characters in novels and movies are fictitious, and we also understand that historical figures - even if we’ve never met them personally - were real people.What is real? A loose definition that seems true enough is .. "that which never changes" Was JFK real? I've seen video evidence that that man existed, and video of his brains getting blown out. So, JFK popped into existence, lingered for a while, then was snuffed out like the flame on a candle. So the man was real, but is that what's Real? Obviously JFK changed.......
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Nov 21, 2013 10:22:24 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 10:22:24 GMT -5
from the article: Most people can easily tell the difference between reality and fantasy. We know that characters in novels and movies are fictitious, and we also understand that historical figures - even if we’ve never met them personally - were real people.What is real? A loose definition that seems true enough is .. "that which never changes" Was JFK real? I've seen video evidence that that man existed, and video of his brains getting blown out. So, JFK popped into existence, lingered for a while, then was snuffed out like the flame on a candle. So the man was real, but is that what's Real? Obviously JFK changed....... "That which never changes" is a popular definition around here. It seems to be purely a concept or belief, to me. It's another way of saying that nothing is real, which is fine. But what of the difference between the hardware you are using for reading this post vs Grendel's ailing Uncle Lou, a former colleague of Beowulf?
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Nov 21, 2013 11:25:42 GMT -5
Post by silver on Nov 21, 2013 11:25:42 GMT -5
I couldn't help but think of the phrase 'as real as rain' -- although maybe it really was 'as right as rain', as in what the Oracle told Neo when she offered him that cookie.
But, we know rain IS real, although it does change form - so we sometimes may find ourselves minimizing the reality of rain because it goes up as a gas or vapor when the sun does its thing to the morning dew.
Dew we minimize one or more of our forms?
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Nov 21, 2013 12:42:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 12:42:20 GMT -5
"That which never changes" is a popular definition around here. It seems to be purely a concept or belief, to me. It's another way of saying that nothing is real, which is fine. Of course, once you open your mouth, you've turned it into a concept. The real, the ineffable, being non-conceptual, can't be expressed with words. But we can still talk, right? Nothing wrong with that is it? So maybe things like "that which never changes", "perfect just as it is", "here, now"; gets said, and then maybe people start arguing about what's being said, instead of recognizing what the words are trying to point to... But "a belief"? I dunno, but I don't think so. What are beliefs anyway? Taking a position, planting a flag in the ground, thinking "I'm right/you're wrong"? Yeah, that sounds like it has trouble written all over it. ;-) Not that it matters, but I never read Beowulf, so I'll substitute Frodo for Uncle Lou. ;-) Are you asking if my desktop is more real than Frodo? Hmmm. Well Frodo is definitely imagination, but when you get lost in the book, lost in the words, maybe you suspend logic briefly, and enter into that imaginary world. But it seems like that "imaginary world" is not reserved solely for works of literature, it seems like people spend quite a bit of time in there, thinking about a great many things. My puter seemingly is real enough, like a momentary tool of usefulness. But what was it 20 billion years ago, what will it be 20 billion years hence? ( )
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Nov 21, 2013 13:08:10 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 13:08:10 GMT -5
"That which never changes" is a popular definition around here. It seems to be purely a concept or belief, to me. It's another way of saying that nothing is real, which is fine. Of course, once you open your mouth, you've turned it into a concept. The real, the ineffable, being non-conceptual, can't be expressed with words. But we can still talk, right? Nothing wrong with that is it? So maybe things like "that which never changes", "perfect just as it is", "here, now"; gets said, and then maybe people start arguing about what's being said, instead of recognizing what the words are trying to point to... But "a belief"? I dunno, but I don't think so. What are beliefs anyway? Taking a position, planting a flag in the ground, thinking "I'm right/you're wrong"? Yeah, that sounds like it has trouble written all over it. ;-) I called "that which never changes" a concept or belief because if it as a concept is believed to be true it is a belief. It's a belief because there is no way to know if something never changes. It's an idea only (unless we're talking omnicient superpowers, which I don't have much to say about). It's not a problem, just a belief. stardust. Nothing dies, just changing form. This is why I'm more comfortable with the 'nothing is real' idear. However, the question remains about why some things seem more real than others. I think Albert Einstein said something like "Reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one." Something like that. We're talking gradations of effective illusions. Grendel's Uncle Lou, an illusion born from this particularly unimaginative mind, is not a particularly persistent or effective illusion. That puter of yours is much better.
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Nov 21, 2013 13:44:35 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 13:44:35 GMT -5
Perhaps an easier question is
What is unreal?
There, if we go with anything that is impermanent or changing, we got an answer.
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Nov 21, 2013 14:04:07 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 14:04:07 GMT -5
Perhaps an easier question is What is unreal? There, if we go with anything that is impermanent or changing, we got an answer. I vote: unreal doesn't exist. is imagination only that clinging to words thoughts concepts beliefs is like getting sucked into a black hole and that the momentum is so strong not even light can escape...
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Nov 21, 2013 14:05:17 GMT -5
Post by silver on Nov 21, 2013 14:05:17 GMT -5
Is the void a concept?
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Nov 21, 2013 14:11:29 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 14:11:29 GMT -5
Perhaps an easier question is What is unreal? There, if we go with anything that is impermanent or changing, we got an answer. I vote: unreal doesn't exist. is imagination only that clinging to words thoughts concepts beliefs is like getting sucked into a black hole that the momentum is so so strong not even light can escape... Crap! unreal doesn't exist either! FFS!
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Nov 21, 2013 14:18:51 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 14:18:51 GMT -5
Yeppers. Best bet is that if you see it showing in text, it's a concept. Is it a 'pointer'? Now that gets a little interesting.
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Nov 21, 2013 14:20:19 GMT -5
Post by silver on Nov 21, 2013 14:20:19 GMT -5
Yeppers. Best bet is that if you see it showing in text, it's a concept. Is it a 'pointer'? Now that gets a little interesting. wow. and here I thought people believed it to be real. Or is that where it gets interesting? Please tell me more.
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Nov 21, 2013 14:33:34 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 14:33:34 GMT -5
I vote: unreal doesn't exist. is imagination only that clinging to words thoughts concepts beliefs is like getting sucked into a black hole that the momentum is so so strong not even light can escape... Crap! unreal doesn't exist either! FFS! just to clarify: I vote: real exists FFS
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Nov 21, 2013 14:39:28 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 14:39:28 GMT -5
Yeppers. Best bet is that if you see it showing in text, it's a concept. Is it a 'pointer'? Now that gets a little interesting. what about the pointer... still your mind and knowdoes a still mind ask, or answer, any questions about "the void"?
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Nov 21, 2013 14:44:13 GMT -5
Post by silver on Nov 21, 2013 14:44:13 GMT -5
Well, maybe a good question about 'the void' is, have you ever felt, sensed that you had experienced or 'met' the void?
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