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Post by silver on Nov 20, 2013 16:10:23 GMT -5
That just seems like your own defense mechanisms coming into pay -- fighting against common sense -- Tbh in my lifetime, I've rarely seen anyone use the common-sense as a ploy as it were. i think you are getting a little paranoid -- like worried about winning one for the gipper or giffer or whatever. Anyone who would use common sense as a ploy I think would be instantaneously recognized for the fallacy that it is. Just sayin' If I've misconstrued any of what you said, Im ready for my pie. Actually hun', I'm using commonsense as an offensive weapon here . Sometimes, a pie is just a pie.
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Post by laughter on Nov 20, 2013 16:31:22 GMT -5
Actually hun', I'm using commonsense as an offensive weapon here . Sometimes, a pie is just a pie. Na-uh hun' ... like already told FJ -- a pie is always a pie. ... right up until the moment it hits you in the face! After that it's just a mess!
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Post by laughter on Nov 20, 2013 16:33:32 GMT -5
dog nuts smells when you sniff it. Oh really? Are you one of those dog whisperers, able to 'speak their language'? Think the profanity filter here maxy ... he typed dogsh!t ... he ain't doin' no funny-bidness with no pooches ...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 17:04:44 GMT -5
Oh really? Are you one of those dog whisperers, able to 'speak their language'? Think the profanity filter here maxy ... he typed dogsh!t ... he ain't doin' no funny-bidness with no pooches ... According to Plato, when Socrates boasted "at least I know one thing that no one else does...that I know nothing" the ever well-meaning Meno got a little smile of cleverness and replied eagerly "but that's not nothing!" Reportedly, Socrates sniffed "I know that!"
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Post by silence on Nov 20, 2013 17:47:33 GMT -5
the direct experience has no reference to advance to the imagining of there being no side to the coin.. from direct experience the experiencer simply acts accordingly, without conjuring a story about vanishing sides, the story is Earnest's application of knowledge and belief.. You don't have to conjure a story about vanishing sides if you haven't already conjured a story about the other side you haven't yet seen.
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Post by silence on Nov 20, 2013 17:52:56 GMT -5
The desire for a perfect world is itself a form of greed. As is the desire for enlightenment. So for you anything/everything is greed? No. You don't desire enlightenment for the betterment of everyone. You want it for yourself, pure and simple. It is the direct result of rejecting what's before you as not good enough.
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Post by silence on Nov 20, 2013 17:56:26 GMT -5
Common sense is an incredibly useful tool for navigating in and coping with the world. Notice that the word "Common" refers to a consensus. It's also a myth, don't you think? It's basically a term that is used for bolstering some sort of argument. It basically means that it is the correct course of action and everyone knows this, but none of this needs to be supported with evidence because duh it's so obvious that you must be a pinhead to even question it. When, actually, much of what is labeled 'common sense' may have shaky underpinnings. Common sense in the way I use it refers to what could also be called your bull$hit detector. For some it's a very quiet nagging voice/sense that they've stuffed way deep down.
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Post by lolly on Nov 20, 2013 18:58:39 GMT -5
Sure, about some things. No about others. This question can keep you busy interminably. Is that your plan? Do I seem like the planning kind of guy? There is nobody here to plan :) Reminds me of what the Joker said: "I'm like a dog chasing cars. I don't know what I'd do if I actually caught one. I'd just do stuff"
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Post by lolly on Nov 20, 2013 19:08:31 GMT -5
I get the point. It means I can see one side of the coin and feel the other on the palm of my hand... er... hypothetically speaking.
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Post by laughter on Nov 20, 2013 19:11:08 GMT -5
Think the profanity filter here maxy ... he typed dogsh!t ... he ain't doin' no funny-bidness with no pooches ... According to Plato, when Socrates boasted "at least I know one thing that no one else does...that I know nothing" the ever well-meaning Meno got a little smile of cleverness and replied eagerly "but that's not nothing!" Reportedly, Socrates sniffed "I know that!" ok ok socci! gotcha'!
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Post by tzujanli on Nov 20, 2013 21:58:28 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Yes.. as long as the 'illusion' is not used to promote ever greater illusions.. Be well.. Tzu,. either you're not telling the truth, or you have some fundamental issues with how you perceive the world. Tea only has a temperature when you take a sip. When its on the table in front of you, or across the room, or in another country,. you can't perceive the temperature. To say that its hot/cold/whatever, you need to go back to thoughts. There is nothing wrong with that, but its not what you are directly experiencing through your senses. A lemon is bitter when you bite it, dog nuts smells when you sniff it. You yourself have argued a similar point about the painting above the computer in your room. No one (unless they are some kind of remote viewing freak) can tell you what it is. This is no different to perceiving the reverse side of a coin etc etc etc. "the direct experience has no reference to advance to the imagining of there being no side to the coin.. " All I see is you disappearing further and further into mental abstractions and story-land to try and maintain your view of the world. There's a disconnect in our understandings.. no, i'm not telling 'the truth', i'm relating what is actually happening.. you din't understand the fundamental point of the 'painting' question, it's not directly related to the coin illusion.. Al i see is you firmly attached to a belief about 'direct experience', when.. as i've tried to demonstrate, direct experience has no link to the mind's coin/illusion story generating process.. and, it's just not worth the hard-feelings matters like this often end up as, so.. i'm just going to disagree, i understand the message you are conveying, and it has a useful 'point', but it is not 'reality'.. Be well..
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Post by earnest on Nov 20, 2013 22:07:55 GMT -5
Greetings.. Tzu,. either you're not telling the truth, or you have some fundamental issues with how you perceive the world. Tea only has a temperature when you take a sip. When its on the table in front of you, or across the room, or in another country,. you can't perceive the temperature. To say that its hot/cold/whatever, you need to go back to thoughts. There is nothing wrong with that, but its not what you are directly experiencing through your senses. A lemon is bitter when you bite it, dog nuts smells when you sniff it. You yourself have argued a similar point about the painting above the computer in your room. No one (unless they are some kind of remote viewing freak) can tell you what it is. This is no different to perceiving the reverse side of a coin etc etc etc. "the direct experience has no reference to advance to the imagining of there being no side to the coin.. " All I see is you disappearing further and further into mental abstractions and story-land to try and maintain your view of the world. There's a disconnect in our understandings.. no, i'm not telling 'the truth', i'm relating what is actually happening.. you din't understand the fundamental point of the 'painting' question, it's not directly related to the coin illusion.. Al i see is you firmly attached to a belief about 'direct experience', when.. as i've tried to demonstrate, direct experience has no link to the mind's coin/illusion story generating process.. and, it's just not worth the hard-feelings matters like this often end up as, so.. i'm just going to disagree, i understand the message you are conveying, and it has a useful 'point', but it is not 'reality'.. Be well.. With the painting thing, I deliberately changed the context and intent of that question to make a point. And yeah, we disagree on this matter,.. pretty substantially! I'm happy to leave things were they are (and no hard feelings of course)
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Post by earnest on Nov 20, 2013 22:26:02 GMT -5
I get the point. It means I can see one side of the coin and feel the other on the palm of my hand... er... hypothetically speaking. For me its just that direct looking at things opens up the world - fresh and alive. Go check out Douglas Harding and his experiments if you're curious.
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Post by tzujanli on Nov 21, 2013 6:57:39 GMT -5
Greetings.. I get the point. It means I can see one side of the coin and feel the other on the palm of my hand... er... hypothetically speaking. For me its just that direct looking at things opens up the world - fresh and alive. Go check out Douglas Harding and his experiments if you're curious. Hi Earnest: Ditto! i agree with your understanding, and it is my practice to engage Life in the same way.. but, i don't walk off cliffs or into traffic because it's the 'first time' i've experienced it, each time.. You seem to want to make 'points', with your painting and coin illustrations.. my 'point' is that direct experience is not confined to an 'instant', it's an integration into the process of existence.. Be well..
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Post by lolly on Nov 21, 2013 7:38:16 GMT -5
I still see no removal from my experience in saying I see one side of the coin and I feel the other.
That Harding guy is cool. Thanks for that.
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