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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 7:43:33 GMT -5
self is small 's' in this case. I'm thinking of self as primarily being the myth of personhood which is based on beliefs held unconsciously, for the most part. It is fundamentally conceptual, a creation of imagination.
Ego, on the other hand, is a noun label given fundamentally to drive and motivation. Ego is motivation. It could be vanity, lust, desire, greed, repulsion, fear....
Personality, preference, taste -- these are conditioned, whether the conditioning is due to DNA or the developmental environment. The personality is the particular filter which creates the peculiar hues and shades and textures of individual expression. The personality steers where ego motivations will be fulfilled.
Ego and personality happen and the particular manifestations of these are tagged with 'my' or 'me' in the production of the self. The conceiving of the self creates positive feedback for the ego. It's no longer just a sweet tasty jelly bean, it's 'my' jellybean. So on top of the typical sugary, chewy, sweetness there is the added feeling of specialness. Like whipped cream on a jelly bean.
While the myth of self can be seen through, seen as a myth based on imagination, the ego and personality continue. But without that added spin of self, the manifestations of ego become more transient and less entrenched. Perhaps.
Just thinking out loud. I listened to part of an J Katz interview with Fred Davis this morning. Mr. Davis was talking openly about ego. How, before awakening to the falsehood of self, it was confused and driven primarily through addiction, and transferring addiction. After awakening, it continued and manifested as wanting to be a spiritual teacher. And it continues to this day, though appears to have less intensity to it.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Oct 16, 2013 10:49:43 GMT -5
It all sounds half-cooked to me.
If the psychological truth is that I feel like a self/ego/whatever, then why not respect it and act it out till its end. Why create some abstract theoretical conflict that never actually touches my heart?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 11:10:48 GMT -5
It all sounds half-cooked to me. If the psychological truth is that I feel like a self/ego/whatever, then why not respect it and act it out till its end. Why create some abstract theoretical conflict that never actually touches my heart? Half-cooked is the story of my life. Do you feel as if I'm disrespecting your feelings? Show me how to touch your heart and I'll gladly do it. I'm interested in the subject because I've noticed the presence of ego related feelings but not necessarily the self. I'm wondering if I've been conflating the two. Hence I present half-baked musings online hoping to spur my own understanding.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 11:40:54 GMT -5
self is small 's' in this case. I'm thinking of self as primarily being the myth of personhood which is based on beliefs held unconsciously, for the most part. It is fundamentally conceptual, a creation of imagination. Ego, on the other hand, is a noun label given fundamentally to drive and motivation. Ego is motivation. It could be vanity, lust, desire, greed, repulsion, fear....Personality, preference, taste -- these are conditioned, whether the conditioning is due to DNA or the developmental environment. The personality is the particular filter which creates the peculiar hues and shades and textures of individual expression. The personality steers where ego motivations will be fulfilled. Ego and personality happen and the particular manifestations of these are tagged with 'my' or 'me' in the production of the self. The conceiving of the self creates positive feedback for the ego. It's no longer just a sweet tasty jelly bean, it's 'my' jellybean. So on top of the typical sugary, chewy, sweetness there is the added feeling of specialness. Like whipped cream on a jelly bean. While the myth of self can be seen through, seen as a myth based on imagination, the ego and personality continue. But without that added spin of self, the manifestations of ego become more transient and less entrenched. Perhaps. Just thinking out loud. I listened to part of an J Katz interview with Fred Davis this morning. Mr. Davis was talking openly about ego. How, before awakening to the falsehood of self, it was confused and driven primarily through addiction, and transferring addiction. After awakening, it continued and manifested as wanting to be a spiritual teacher. And it continues to this day, though appears to have less intensity to it. I agree with most of what your saying here and just wanted to add a bit about Ego... Sometimes the way Ego gets spoken about is as if it were a separate thing, acting on it's own. It's necessary at times to speak about the Ego this way in an attempt persuade us not to take it lightly and to realize how much of our thinking is Ego-directed. In truth though, the Ego is nothing more than a part of our belief about our self. If that is what you were inferring than I apologize...
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Oct 16, 2013 11:42:54 GMT -5
Half-cooked is the story of my life. Do you feel as if I'm disrespecting your feelings? Show me how to touch your heart and I'll gladly do it. I'm interested in the subject because I've noticed the presence of ego related feelings but not necessarily the self. I'm wondering if I've been conflating the two. Hence I present half-baked musings online hoping to spur my own understanding. I mean "respect" in the sense of standing by it and trusting it, i.e. stay true to yourself, regardless of whether they say that you are a self or ego or whatever. Suppose they say you are an ego, that means you're a problem, what are you gonna do then? Be a problem? Because someone told you so?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 12:37:01 GMT -5
Half-cooked is the story of my life. Do you feel as if I'm disrespecting your feelings? Show me how to touch your heart and I'll gladly do it. I'm interested in the subject because I've noticed the presence of ego related feelings but not necessarily the self. I'm wondering if I've been conflating the two. Hence I present half-baked musings online hoping to spur my own understanding. I mean "respect" in the sense of standing by it and trusting it, i.e. stay true to yourself, regardless of whether they say that you are a self or ego or whatever. Suppose they say you are an ego, that means you're a problem, what are you gonna do then? Be a problem? Because someone told you so? No I'm not talking problems, just discernment. I want to know what I'm looking at. Is anger evidence of selfhood or ego? Is vanity evidence of selfhood or ego? That sort of thing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 12:38:47 GMT -5
self is small 's' in this case. I'm thinking of self as primarily being the myth of personhood which is based on beliefs held unconsciously, for the most part. It is fundamentally conceptual, a creation of imagination. Ego, on the other hand, is a noun label given fundamentally to drive and motivation. Ego is motivation. It could be vanity, lust, desire, greed, repulsion, fear....Personality, preference, taste -- these are conditioned, whether the conditioning is due to DNA or the developmental environment. The personality is the particular filter which creates the peculiar hues and shades and textures of individual expression. The personality steers where ego motivations will be fulfilled. Ego and personality happen and the particular manifestations of these are tagged with 'my' or 'me' in the production of the self. The conceiving of the self creates positive feedback for the ego. It's no longer just a sweet tasty jelly bean, it's 'my' jellybean. So on top of the typical sugary, chewy, sweetness there is the added feeling of specialness. Like whipped cream on a jelly bean. While the myth of self can be seen through, seen as a myth based on imagination, the ego and personality continue. But without that added spin of self, the manifestations of ego become more transient and less entrenched. Perhaps. Just thinking out loud. I listened to part of an J Katz interview with Fred Davis this morning. Mr. Davis was talking openly about ego. How, before awakening to the falsehood of self, it was confused and driven primarily through addiction, and transferring addiction. After awakening, it continued and manifested as wanting to be a spiritual teacher. And it continues to this day, though appears to have less intensity to it. I agree with most of what your saying here and just wanted to add a bit about Ego... Sometimes the way Ego gets spoken about is as if it were a separate thing, acting on it's own. It's necessary at times to speak about the Ego this way in an attempt persuade us not to take it lightly and to realize how much of our thinking is Ego-directed. In truth though, the Ego is nothing more than a part of our belief about our self. If that is what you were inferring than I apologize... Thanks for the feedback, that's what I was looking for. So you see ego as part of the belief system. So ego would disappear after awakening to the illusion of self?
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Post by silver on Oct 16, 2013 12:51:24 GMT -5
I agree with most of what your saying here and just wanted to add a bit about Ego... Sometimes the way Ego gets spoken about is as if it were a separate thing, acting on it's own. It's necessary at times to speak about the Ego this way in an attempt persuade us not to take it lightly and to realize how much of our thinking is Ego-directed. In truth though, the Ego is nothing more than a part of our belief about our self. If that is what you were inferring than I apologize... Thanks for the feedback, that's what I was looking for. So you see ego as part of the belief system. So ego would disappear after awakening to the illusion of self?I hope you don't mind if I respond to this, too. When I first read this exchange, I thought if people believe ego is part of self, then logically, it would, but ego in and of itself, I believe, developed into a sort of religious belief, so ego itself is already an illusion / mirage.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 13:44:31 GMT -5
I agree with most of what your saying here and just wanted to add a bit about Ego... Sometimes the way Ego gets spoken about is as if it were a separate thing, acting on it's own. It's necessary at times to speak about the Ego this way in an attempt persuade us not to take it lightly and to realize how much of our thinking is Ego-directed. In truth though, the Ego is nothing more than a part of our belief about our self. If that is what you were inferring than I apologize... Thanks for the feedback, that's what I was looking for. So you see ego as part of the belief system. So ego would disappear after awakening to the illusion of self? The way I see it is that if I believe that I have to escape from the Ego, then I'm not yet convinced of what I would be escaping to... They say the Ego and the Big Mind, or God, or Spirit, etc, etc, don't know each other and so the separated mind cannot maintain the separation except by dissociating. Having done this, it denies all truly natural impulses, not because the Ego is a ' separate thing', but because I want to believe that ' I am'... So the Ego is a device for maintaining this belief, but it is still only 'my decision' to use the device that enables it to endure...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 15:27:00 GMT -5
Ego is an imagined thing that you are creating in order to dissect yourself into pieces and know yourself better.
You are slicing yourself up into pieces, naming the pieces things like ego, small self, personality etc...and then trying to understand the parts as you have separated them.
You are dividing the indivisible to know it better.
But keep in mind, that dividing is not uniting ;-)
If you want to know, keep dividing, if you want gnosis of God Union, stop knowing, stop dividing, and alertly BE, without knowing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 17:50:24 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback, that's what I was looking for. So you see ego as part of the belief system. So ego would disappear after awakening to the illusion of self?I hope you don't mind if I respond to this, too. When I first read this exchange, I thought if people believe ego is part of self, then logically, it would, but ego in and of itself, I believe, developed into a sort of religious belief, so ego itself is already an illusion / mirage.
How would you classify vanity, fear, anger -- ego, self, both, or other?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 17:53:47 GMT -5
Ego is an imagined thing that you are creating in order to dissect yourself into pieces and know yourself better. You are slicing yourself up into pieces, naming the pieces things like ego, small self, personality etc...and then trying to understand the parts as you have separated them. You are dividing the indivisible to know it better. But keep in mind, that dividing is not uniting ;-) If you want to know, keep dividing, if you want gnosis of God Union, stop knowing, stop dividing, and alertly BE, without knowing. Are you saying that discerning between these things is of no value wrt gnosis? I'm trying to discern between what is and imagination about what is. Doesn't gnosis require immersion in what is?
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Post by silver on Oct 16, 2013 17:56:01 GMT -5
I hope you don't mind if I respond to this, too. When I first read this exchange, I thought if people believe ego is part of self, then logically, it would, but ego in and of itself, I believe, developed into a sort of religious belief, so ego itself is already an illusion / mirage.
How would you classify vanity, fear, anger -- ego, self, both, or other? Since 'ego' has no real meaning for me, I just put all those emotions under a human behavior psychological umbrella. So, I guess when one considers they've transcended or have become enlightened or 'aware', it's just more stepping stones toward what, I'm not exactly sure -- just along one's path whatever and wherever it ends up -- which is the point - it's neverending.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 17:59:06 GMT -5
How would you classify vanity, fear, anger -- ego, self, both, or other? Since 'ego' has no real meaning for me, I just put all those emotions under a human behavior psychological umbrella. So, I guess when one considers they've transcended or have become enlightened or 'aware', it's just more stepping stones toward what, I'm not exactly sure -- just along one's path whatever and wherever it ends up -- which is the point - it's neverending. Is HBPU self?
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Post by silver on Oct 16, 2013 18:02:28 GMT -5
Since 'ego' has no real meaning for me, I just put all those emotions under a human behavior psychological umbrella. So, I guess when one considers they've transcended or have become enlightened or 'aware', it's just more stepping stones toward what, I'm not exactly sure -- just along one's path whatever and wherever it ends up -- which is the point - it's neverending. Is HBPU self? Yes, but is this mean that when one drops that idea of individual self, it is no more? See, this is the part that so many of us struggle -- against one another sometimes -- over. No matter what - if someone believes they've 'overcome' being a someone, until they're physically dead, they are who they are -- a self. Urk.
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