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Post by Reefs on Sept 29, 2013 7:51:51 GMT -5
Yes but you can benefit to read deeper into Ramana words. One can truly say that Samadhi is one natural state and this is correct when you are speaking about what Advaita calls the provisional self. In truth states are states and they come and go . Any state no matter how natural it may be is Not Liberation. No offense but what I see in you is a burning desire to have Samadhi and as long as you have this then you feel you lack something and are not complete just as you are. This will keep you seeking after something until it is let go. I am a student of traditional Vedanta and James Swartz is my teacher and he would say the same to you. Desires are not an issue.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 29, 2013 7:54:13 GMT -5
Yes but you can benefit to read deeper into Ramana words. One can truly say that Samadhi is one natural state and this is correct when you are speaking about what Advaita calls the provisional self. In truth states are states and they come and go . Any state no matter how natural it may be is Not Liberation. No offense but what I see in you is a burning desire to have Samadhi and as long as you have this then you feel you lack something and are not complete just as you are. This will keep you seeking after something until it is let go. I am a student of traditional Vedanta and James Swartz is my teacher and he would say the same to you. Well, firstly, I am not feeling like I am lacking anything, second, with all due respect to your teacher, he is not a liberated Jnani, I am familiar with him. This does not mean he should not be teaching Vedanta, its just saying that his views are limited by his depth of clearing of the Vassanas and Mukti. All things are complete just as they are my friend, there is no question about that, and yet, when one is cebtered in the mind and individuated self, even though that self may be aware of its perfection, one is not abiding in the limitless persoective of Samsdhi, and, thusly, in a way is bound. it is true, that even that "bound" state is perfect though :-) I would be happy to have a dialogue with Mr. swartz if you like, and even his teacher ;-) What hapoens too frequently with Western teachers of Vedanta, is that they ate sent out to teach by Jnani's that are liberated, even when the western teacher is not, because even a non-liberated teacher of classical Vedanta is better than nothing. I compare it to when I was a Mdeic in the Army....in the field, undertrained medics are often called upon to provide advanced medical care typically reserved for a physician...this is because in the field, there are not enough trained physicians to provide care for everyone meeding it, so even under qualified care is better than nothing, and may save some lives. Having said that, I am mot saying that Swartz is under qualified, but if he agrees with what you have said there, i.e. that "knowledge of _________is true enlightenment" then he is not there yet. My own experiences indicate that, as do the teachings of all the truelly liberated Jnani's Like Ramana. I would very much welcome a dialague on the subject with your teacher ;-) Ask your teacher this please: Is true liberation knowing with absolute clarity that we lack nothing and all is perfection, or, is true liberation the the complete loss of self, never to return, in in the absolute oneness of Sahaja Samadhi? Or is true liberation the absence of that kind of TMT?
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Post by Reefs on Sept 29, 2013 7:57:36 GMT -5
Ok then but I need to go I will just say Steve that every post I have read of yours cries for Samadhi which is just a cry for another experience. This is no different from a addict cry for his fix, a baby for their mothers milk. It's all there and very clear. Everything you have written supports the view that you desire Samadhi as a person held underwater desires air. Now that is a profound sense of lack my friend. Take care Nowhereman I'll just throw this out there....can you be 100% certain that your interpretation is accurate? Can you be 100% certain that you are not tripping again? Is there absolute certainty that your samadhi is the real deal?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2013 7:59:09 GMT -5
'liberation' is from the mind of limitations. egos like to debate their minds-development so as to keep themselves from being totally absorbed(samadhe) whereby they begin to exhibit the presence of wholesomeness.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 29, 2013 8:02:07 GMT -5
Haha sorry, but I just had a good gut laugh I went to Mr. Swartz website and found an "enlightenment quiz" lol And apparently, if you get the answers right, as he sees them, you are enlightened :-) What say you? Why, do you figure your quiz would be better? If I remember correctly, he had similar issues with ZD's koans.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 29, 2013 8:04:19 GMT -5
You're completely hooked on an experience no different than a drug addict. It's not off base at all. Would you like to know HOW it is different than a drug addict? Or are you comfortable with just the conjecture? Would you be able to speak from first hand experience about drug addiction?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2013 8:05:16 GMT -5
Reefs, what are ZD's koans?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2013 8:06:21 GMT -5
Would you like to know HOW it is different than a drug addict? Or are you comfortable with just the conjecture? Would you be able to speak from fist hand experience about drug addiction? open fist is hand first is before second.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 29, 2013 8:07:54 GMT -5
Steve I disagree you are mixing Samadhi which is a experience no matter how rare or highten you may find it to be with Liberation they are not the same at all. Ramana never said that any Samadhi including Sahaja(the natural one) was Liberation. Clearing the Vasanas is required for Liberation but again it's not any Samadhi. As long as one is clinging to any type of Samadhi and or experience then they are still chasing and seeking. The idea that if I work at this long enough I will finally get there comes from feeling you are lacking something and are not complete just as you are. This idea of lacking will always keep the seeker a seeker. Liberation is simply this knowing beyond any doubt that you never lacked anything. In Vedanta it's simply known as understanding but it's a very subtle understanding not of the mind. Peace nowhereman Solid stuff dude... I seem to pick up that Steve is still seeking something from his posts. He most def doesn't appear content with what is.... Although because I don't know him, this may just be a function of his mind body similar to going to work to make money. I want more money to go on bigger and better trips around the world....doesn't mean attachment is there to if that comes to fruition. So I guess we have to take his word that he isn't seeking still? The issue isn't the experience he describes. The need to convince everyone that he really has had that experience and that he therefore is way ahead of everyone else here is a little odd.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 29, 2013 8:11:43 GMT -5
Would you be able to speak from fist hand experience about drug addiction? open fist is hand first is before second. Haha. I fixed it.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 29, 2013 8:14:58 GMT -5
is this thread about whos teacher says the most and therefore better than the one who says fuk-all and refuses to say anything? Egos want the best teacher,so they can feel proud of their powers of perception. Personally, if a bloke or sheila has presence I would STFU an sit quietly there and not bother with words. Have you folk noticed the answers come when you're most comfortable in yourself? They do for me and I'm proud to say I don't have all the answers. Not having the answers delivers me into the most sensitive-place where life is most delectable, most sweet. STFU is ok by me too. When there's a strong sense of accomplishment present, it suddenly sounds all a little odd, even though what has been said is spot on.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2013 8:16:45 GMT -5
open fist is hand first is before second. Haha. I fixed it. knew you would...but i got in first!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2013 8:21:45 GMT -5
Yeah, it's like he can't put out his own fire. So rather than learn how to turn his own tap on, he's using the 'delete account' button instead. Maybe he can explain what's up with his account creation/deletion obsession? spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/153104/threadThis is an explanation he left in another deleted account.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2013 8:25:51 GMT -5
Experience is NOT it. experience is a moment of absorbsion.... indicating that we are split(when in our mind) ie, thinker an thought.
Seeking an experience as 'confirmation that you have attained', is simply desiring that which is 'already in place' 'cept you are not in the place of knowing, you are back in the place of desiring.
far-out...i found the delete button. wont be littering the place as much as before.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 29, 2013 8:28:57 GMT -5
Okay, but thats a bit like saying your car is "pure car"....what kind of car is it? Advaita is an EXTREMELY broad tradition, with countless methods of Sadhana, Dharana, and Dhyana that includes most of the yogic, tantric, meditation methods under it's "umbrella".....Advaita Vedanta is so incredibly diverse that I can't imagine what "Pure Advaita" may be? Advaita is not like other traditions wherein they will espouse one type of method, Advaita is so diverse because people are so diverse, and there are different approaches based on what works for a specific person. I am asking because I was not able to find anything that Mr. Swartz teaches other than contemplation of the vedas and their meaning in one's life, and what they mean with regards to the nature of existence. So I ask: What I bring this up, because many western teachers of advaita have spent little or no time being a sanyasin trained by a teacher, and instead, they read the teachers books, which are usually only a commentary on the vedas, and one's nature....but this is only the tip of the iceberg of Advaita Vedanta. Contemplation and intellectual/emotional realization of one's true nature is only a beginning. Of the teachers listed at Mr. Swartz site, has he spent any time with them at all? If so was it more than just an introductory type retreat? Has any if those teachers named him as a fully realized teacher and authorized him to teach in their lineage? To be clear, even if the answer to all these questions are no, this would not preclude him from teaching IMHO, BUT one should be aware that he is only capable of teaching in so much as the depths that he has plumbed. Kinda like, if you don't know basic Math, then a High School math teacher is of great benefit to you, but if that high school math teacher tells you that their is no more math beyond what they are experienced in, and you have some interest in advanced math, then the teacher who was of benefit will eventually become a liability. I don't know if any of this is accurate about Mr. Swartz, thats why I am asking you questions. Your own posts, when you say things like Samadhi is an irrelevant experience, and if one simply contemplates the vedas and themselves and accept fully what is written, indicate a lack of depth and breadth of experience in Advaita Vedanta....I am curious if this is a result of your teacher yelling you there is no more "math" available. So I ask: What methods does your teacher teach, other than contemplation? I have an IQ of 160 ish, I'm one of the leading people in my professional field in the world, I've spent over 20 years having the spiritual enquiry be the center of my life, I have explored and experienced in almost every way possible on this path and reside in alert still silent empty nature without getting absorbed in the mind movements that still arise... I've studied the teaching of almost every system from every tradition and not just studied them but practiced them and reverse engineered them from the basest of mind absorption to the ultimate clarity of essential empty nature... Oh, the humanity!
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