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Post by enigma on Sept 12, 2013 10:52:18 GMT -5
Greetings.. A Scale can weigh many things but it cannot weigh 'itself'... A Knife can cut many things but it cannot cut 'itself'... Being can experience many things but it cannot experience 'itself'... For mind to believe that it can is folly... What is it that is 'being'? The question is minsconceived. It's an attempt to objectify subjectivity. Only if 'being' can be objectified, and the whole point is that it cannot. As long as you're paying attention to happenings, you'll turn everything into an object of your experience, and miss the subjectivity that you are. In a way, nothing is actually happening.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 10:52:40 GMT -5
Yes the human being doesn't vanish...just the desire to 'be something'... Just the desire to be clarity, to be peace, to be silence, to be understanding, to be awakened, to be enlightened, to be a somebody...to be something, even something abstract, is dropped. And what remains is Being... If you refer back to what Steve wrote, you'll find reference to the negation of more than just desire. My only reference and context this morning is 'This'...but thanks for the referral...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 11:27:43 GMT -5
Greetings.. What is it that is 'being'? 'That which is', is dependent on 'that'.. no 'that', no 'which is'.. That 'you' can ramble on about 'being', positions 'you' prior to 'being'.. 'you' are not a knife or a scale, 'you' are the builder of knives and scales.. You are lost in your conceptual beliefs about 'being', let that go.. just pay attention to what is actually happening.. Be well.. That's good advice actually...just pay attention to what is actually happening and drop your conceptual belief that you can experience Being, experiencing a you that thinks it can experience Being... And don't leave out ALERTNESS..... :-)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 11:30:33 GMT -5
Greetings.. Yes the human being doesn't vanish...just the desire to 'be something'... Just the desire to be clarity, to be peace, to be silence, to be understanding, to be awakened, to be enlightened, to be a somebody...to be something, even something abstract, is dropped. And what remains is Being... Clarity is not 'something' you can 'be', it is the result of unconditional attentiveness and a still mind.. i don't desire to be clarity, i intend to experience 'being', with clarity, undistorted by beliefs and attachments.. Be well.. You may just be debating vocabulary at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 11:32:59 GMT -5
What is the truth before you know that? A bunch of meaningless black marks on a computer screen... What is the Truth before you know that?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 11:34:20 GMT -5
Greetings.. Yes, you do experience 'being'.. crafting clever word-games about what you believe 'being' means is no substitute for directly experiencing 'being'.. once you experience 'being', rather than thinking' it, you'll let go of the need to depend on clever word-games.. The "greatest folly of mind", is thinking it knows what its greatest folly 'is'.. Be well.. A Scale can weigh many things but it cannot weigh 'itself'... A Knife can cut many things but it cannot cut 'itself'... Being can experience many things but it cannot experience 'itself'... For mind to believe that it can is folly... Actually, it seems as though all Being does is experience Being....
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Post by silence on Sept 12, 2013 15:53:30 GMT -5
Greetings.. Clarity is not 'something' you can 'be', it is the result of unconditional attentiveness and a still mind.. i don't desire to be clarity, i intend to experience 'being', with clarity, undistorted by beliefs and attachments.. Be well.. You may just be debating vocabulary at this point. We need some snazzy new words to talk about things. I prefer Tyrannosaurus to Being.
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 12, 2013 16:39:14 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. What is it that is 'being'? The question is minsconceived. It's an attempt to objectify subjectivity. Only if 'being' can be objectified, and the whole point is that it cannot. As long as you're paying attention to happenings, you'll turn everything into an object of your experience, and miss the subjectivity that you are. In a way, nothing is actually happening. The question is not misconceived, your rigid attachment to beliefs about how you imagine what your experience means has distorted your ability to see/experience what 'is'.. you believe that your conceptual imaginings are what 'is', but that is only an illusion that 'you' prefer.. some people see clearly, which causes you the suffering of attachments you cannot reconcile.. you are trying to distort the simplicity of 'isness' with distractions like subjective/objective, deflecting the simple clarity into conceptual loops about subjective/objective.. stop relying on your mind and beliefs to tell you what 'is', just look and see for yourself.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Sept 12, 2013 17:13:16 GMT -5
Greetings.. What is it that is 'being'? 'That which is', is dependent on 'that'.. no 'that', no 'which is'.. That 'you' can ramble on about 'being', positions 'you' prior to 'being'.. 'you' are not a knife or a scale, 'you' are the builder of knives and scales.. You are lost in your conceptual beliefs about 'being', let that go.. just pay attention to what is actually happening.. Be well.. That's good advice actually...just pay attention to what is actually happening and drop your conceptual belief that you can experience Being, experiencing a you that thinks it can experience Being... The shade of grey Koala fur free of Tzust is much more lustrous.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 17:18:44 GMT -5
A bunch of meaningless black marks on a computer screen... What is the Truth before you know that? I don't know 'that'...it's what's appearing... And the black marks continue to repeat themselves, ad nausea...kinda like riding a puke wheel...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 17:20:45 GMT -5
A Scale can weigh many things but it cannot weigh 'itself'... A Knife can cut many things but it cannot cut 'itself'... Being can experience many things but it cannot experience 'itself'... For mind to believe that it can is folly... Actually, it seems as though all Being does is experience Being.... And sometimes it even experiences insane thoughts...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 18:53:24 GMT -5
What is the Truth before you know that? I don't know 'that'...it's what's appearing... And the black marks continue to repeat themselves, ad nausea...kinda like riding a puke wheel... Whats the Truth before you Know that?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 19:28:45 GMT -5
Greetings.. Yes, you do experience 'being'.. crafting clever word-games about what you believe 'being' means is no substitute for directly experiencing 'being'.. once you experience 'being', rather than thinking' it, you'll let go of the need to depend on clever word-games.. The "greatest folly of mind", is thinking it knows what its greatest folly 'is'.. Be well.. A Scale can weigh many things but it cannot weigh 'itself'... A Knife can cut many things but it cannot cut 'itself'... Being can experience many things but it cannot experience 'itself'... For mind to believe that it can is folly... I thought I'd revisit this, because it raises an interesting thing about Mind patterns. Do you think that Being follows the kind of relationship structures that you outlined above, i.e. a knife is to cutting as Being is to experiencing phenomena other than Being? What I mean is that you seem to be cubby holing Being into a cause and effect type of linier mind logic. You are defining Being in terms of its relationships, just as you establish relationships between all other phenomena, and then you seem to be working from the assumption that Being and Mind can ONLY function within these relationshipial patterns that you have defined. We are getting into some pretty esoteric stuff here, and my eloquence fails me perhaps, but what I am trying to say is that it seems you are trying to apply the rules of a physical world to that which is both within, and yet not bound by space and time. For the most part, our mind thinks in terms of relationships....as I stated, this is usually relationships between objects in space, or between events in time. For example, a knife can cut an object in space, but it cannot cut itself in space. This is because the spacial relationships allow for the first, and do not allow for the second. How an object relates to other objects and itself in space determines its capabilities....similarly, in a more linear way, events occur in time and relate to each other along a lineal time line. The Mind likes to categorize things in these ways....But Being is not a "function, thing, or event" subject to Mind's logic chains of spacial and temporal relationships. Very often at this forum I read folks saying that Being, or Consciousness, or Awareness, or Mind, cannot be or be doing XYZ...Or describing "things" as "prior to, or separate from, or not the same as, or relative to..." Its all a type of categorizing mind movement that is frankly a kind of mental absorption. Moreover, its a way of trying to "grasp" that which is not subject to the linearity of space and time, and yet one with space and time, with a mental understanding. To say that just as "a knife cannot cut itself, Being cannot experience itself" is your Mind trying to impose the logic and relationships of space and time upon that which is both within but not bound by space and time. Said more plainly, you are applying the logic of physical and temporal laws to something not bound by them, and saying its insane to think otherwise ;-) Honestly, I have a little chuckle whenever you guys try to define these things within the logic and rules of a physical world....you define things that have no relationships within a framework of relationships. And then defend it vigorously.....how insane is that? Here is an excersize for you....see if you can find some event or object where Being is NOT, including within your ExperiencING.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 20:19:21 GMT -5
I don't know 'that'...it's what's appearing... And the black marks continue to repeat themselves, ad nausea...kinda like riding a puke wheel... Whats the Truth before you Know that? Just some more meaningless black marks on a computer screen...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 20:21:02 GMT -5
A Scale can weigh many things but it cannot weigh 'itself'... A Knife can cut many things but it cannot cut 'itself'... Being can experience many things but it cannot experience 'itself'... For mind to believe that it can is folly... I thought I'd revisit this, because it raises an interesting thing about Mind patterns. Do you think that Being follows the kind of relationship structures that you outlined above, i.e. a knife is to cutting as Being is to experiencing phenomena other than Being? What I mean is that you seem to be cubby holing Being into a cause and effect type of linier mind logic. You are defining Being in terms of its relationships, just as you establish relationships between all other phenomena, and then you seem to be working from the assumption that Being and Mind can ONLY function within these relationshipial patterns that you have defined. We are getting into some pretty esoteric stuff here, and my eloquence fails me perhaps, but what I am trying to say is that it seems you are trying to apply the rules of a physical world to that which is both within, and yet not bound by space and time. For the most part, our mind thinks in terms of relationships....as I stated, this is usually relationships between objects in space, or between events in time. For example, a knife can cut an object in space, but it cannot cut itself in space. This is because the spacial relationships allow for the first, and do not allow for the second. How an object relates to other objects and itself in space determines its capabilities....similarly, in a more linear way, events occur in time and relate to each other along a lineal time line. The Mind likes to categorize things in these ways....But Being is not a "function, thing, or event" subject to Mind's logic chains of spacial and temporal relationships. Very often at this forum I read folks saying that Being, or Consciousness, or Awareness, or Mind, cannot be or be doing XYZ...Or describing "things" as "prior to, or separate from, or not the same as, or relative to..." Its all a type of categorizing mind movement that is frankly a kind of mental absorption. Moreover, its a way of trying to "grasp" that which is not subject to the linearity of space and time, and yet one with space and time, with a mental understanding. To say that just as "a knife cannot cut itself, Being cannot experience itself" is your Mind trying to impose the logic and relationships of space and time upon that which is both within but not bound by space and time. Said more plainly, you are applying the logic of physical and temporal laws to something not bound by them, and saying its insane to think otherwise ;-) Honestly, I have a little chuckle whenever you guys try to define these things within the logic and rules of a physical world....you define things that have no relationships within a framework of relationships. And then defend it vigorously.....how insane is that? Whats the Truth before you fall prey to the minds folly of Knowing that?
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