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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 19:13:26 GMT -5
We are 'human beings' or rather being playing the role of a human... Whats the truth before defining, and knowing that? The truth is a conception... As is defining and knowing... Being...is Being...not Being something that the mind conceives...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 19:23:35 GMT -5
We are 'human beings' or rather being playing the role of a human... In the loss of definition, the human being doesn't vanish, just the illusion of the separation from what the witness took the human being to be from what that human being isn't -- that does goes away, that illusion of separation does vanish. Yes the human being doesn't vanish...just the desire to 'be something'... Just the desire to be clarity, to be peace, to be silence, to be understanding, to be awakened, to be enlightened, to be a somebody...to be something, even something abstract, is dropped. And what remains is Being...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 19:26:09 GMT -5
Your screen name of Silence is really an oxymoron, in light of the fact you've never been able to stop thinking for even a moment... The stop thinking stuff on internet forums is fascinating. And an oxymoron...
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 11, 2013 20:03:14 GMT -5
Greetings.. In the loss of definition, the human being doesn't vanish, just the illusion of the separation from what the witness took the human being to be from what that human being isn't -- that does goes away, that illusion of separation does vanish. Yes the human being doesn't vanish...just the desire to 'be something'... Just the desire to be clarity, to be peace, to be silence, to be understanding, to be awakened, to be enlightened, to be a somebody...to be something, even something abstract, is dropped. And what remains is Being... Clarity is not 'something' you can 'be', it is the result of unconditional attentiveness and a still mind.. i don't desire to be clarity, i intend to experience 'being', with clarity, undistorted by beliefs and attachments.. Be well..
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 20:12:51 GMT -5
Whats the truth before defining, and knowing that? The truth is a conception... As is defining and knowing... Being...is Being...not Being something that the mind conceives... What is the truth before you know that?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 21:27:24 GMT -5
Greetings.. Yes the human being doesn't vanish...just the desire to 'be something'... Just the desire to be clarity, to be peace, to be silence, to be understanding, to be awakened, to be enlightened, to be a somebody...to be something, even something abstract, is dropped. And what remains is Being... Clarity is not 'something' you can 'be', it is the result of unconditional attentiveness and a still mind.. i don't desire to be clarity, i intend to experience 'being', with clarity, undistorted by beliefs and attachments.. Be well.. You don't experience 'being'...you are 'being'... Intending to be the 'experiencer' of yourself when you are yourself, is the minds game of being ' something'... ...the greatest folly of the mind is to be aware of the awareness being aware...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 21:29:58 GMT -5
The truth is a conception... As is defining and knowing... Being...is Being...not Being something that the mind conceives... What is the truth before you know that? A bunch of meaningless black marks on a computer screen...
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 11, 2013 22:45:42 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Clarity is not 'something' you can 'be', it is the result of unconditional attentiveness and a still mind.. i don't desire to be clarity, i intend to experience 'being', with clarity, undistorted by beliefs and attachments.. Be well.. You don't experience 'being'...you are 'being'... Intending to be the 'experiencer' of yourself when you are yourself, is the minds game of being ' something'... ...the greatest folly of the mind is to be aware of the awareness being aware... Yes, you do experience 'being'.. crafting clever word-games about what you believe 'being' means is no substitute for directly experiencing 'being'.. once you experience 'being', rather than thinking' it, you'll let go of the need to depend on clever word-games.. The "greatest folly of mind", is thinking it knows what its greatest folly 'is'.. Be well..
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 23:10:02 GMT -5
Greetings.. You don't experience 'being'...you are 'being'... Intending to be the 'experiencer' of yourself when you are yourself, is the minds game of being ' something'... ...the greatest folly of the mind is to be aware of the awareness being aware... Yes, you do experience 'being'.. crafting clever word-games about what you believe 'being' means is no substitute for directly experiencing 'being'.. once you experience 'being', rather than thinking' it, you'll let go of the need to depend on clever word-games.. The "greatest folly of mind", is thinking it knows what its greatest folly 'is'.. Be well.. A Scale can weigh many things but it cannot weigh 'itself'... A Knife can cut many things but it cannot cut 'itself'... Being can experience many things but it cannot experience 'itself'... For mind to believe that it can is folly...
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 11, 2013 23:35:28 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Yes, you do experience 'being'.. crafting clever word-games about what you believe 'being' means is no substitute for directly experiencing 'being'.. once you experience 'being', rather than thinking' it, you'll let go of the need to depend on clever word-games.. The "greatest folly of mind", is thinking it knows what its greatest folly 'is'.. Be well.. A Scale can weigh many things but it cannot weigh 'itself'... A Knife can cut many things but it cannot cut 'itself'... Being can experience many things but it cannot experience 'itself'... For mind to believe that it can is folly... What is it that is 'being'? 'That which is', is dependent on 'that'.. no 'that', no 'which is'.. That 'you' can ramble on about 'being', positions 'you' prior to 'being'.. 'you' are not a knife or a scale, 'you' are the builder of knives and scales.. You are lost in your conceptual beliefs about 'being', let that go.. just pay attention to what is actually happening.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Sept 12, 2013 4:59:14 GMT -5
Technically speaking, "the experience is the definition" can mean the same idea as "what is left is undefinable", depending on whether experience, any experience, is considered subject to definition, ie: whether any experience can be captured and represented precisely and completely by words. The allowance to make here out of courtesy to our friend Tzu is the question of whether the disappearance of the witness can be described as an experience. As you and I understand it and relate it to one another, it isn't, but any attempt to model this in such a way as to elicit some sort of universal conceptual understanding is bound to fail. 9 hours ago tzujanli said: "Greetings..
There is always the experiencer, the witness doesn't disappear, they finally understand, they 'get it', and get on with living without attachment, hesitation, or doubt.. it is indeed a fluid and dynamic experience, it is the occurrence through which potential flows into reality.. the experience is the definition..
Be well.."Nah, sorry my friend, but that bit in red is totally unrelated to what I was posting about....I was trying to communicate a specific phenomena where ALL sense of an observing self awareness is COMPLETELY merged, or disappeared into what is observed, in such a way that ALL sense of an observer disappears....whats left is literally, not metaphorically, undefinable....to give it a shot though, one might say that all observer, and observing are merged into, and disappear into the observed. There is a profound oneness to it, in that unlike the Oneness that can be observed, the observer itself is also absorbed and is no more.....words fail, but one thing is certain, in that "state", there is nothing remotely like: they finally understand, they 'get it', In that state, there is no possibility of understanding, or getting it, or any form of knowing or cognition....in fact, once there is ANY kind of understanding or "getting it"....its lost.... Wasn't arguing with you about your expression, just trying to build a bridge to Tzu that didn't involve some expression of "you just don't understand because you have no point of reference".
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Post by laughter on Sept 12, 2013 5:44:24 GMT -5
In the loss of definition, the human being doesn't vanish, just the illusion of the separation from what the witness took the human being to be from what that human being isn't -- that does goes away, that illusion of separation does vanish. Yes the human being doesn't vanish...just the desire to 'be something'... Just the desire to be clarity, to be peace, to be silence, to be understanding, to be awakened, to be enlightened, to be a somebody...to be something, even something abstract, is dropped. And what remains is Being... If you refer back to what Steve wrote, you'll find reference to the negation of more than just desire.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 8:30:46 GMT -5
This afternoon on the internet I checked out "universal sound," "transcendental sound," "background sound," and other combinations of words that might be used to signify the sound that can be heard behind all other sounds, without success. I've always called it "universal sound" because somewhere I came across that phrase, and it seemed to be referring to what I hear any time I turn attention to non-conceptual listening. Recently I asked several people if they could hear the sound, and only one or two (out of nine or ten) seemed to know what I was talking about. The sound might be described as the sound of a thousand tiny crickets blended together into a continuous hum. It is always present, and it can be heard any time attention is turned to it. It is not an objectionable sound, and in the past I've used it as focus of ATA. After reading about tinnitus, I do not think it is a form of that affliction, but without having a simulation of the sound available as a recording, there's probably no way to know for sure. Most people who suffer from tinnitus consider what they hear highly objectionable and oftentimes debilitating. I became aware of the sound after I started meditating about thirty years ago, and I assumed that most people could hear the sound if it were described, and they listened for it, but apparently this is not the case. Today, Carol suggested that I ask the forum for some feedback, so I started this thread in an attempt to determine what other people experience in this regard. Hindus sometimes use the word "om" or "aum" as a symbol of universal vibratory sound, but I was unable to find anything specific that tied these words to a description of the sound itself. This is pure speculation, but perhaps the roaring sound that people hear when they hold a large seashell to their ear is what I call "universal sound" echoing in the shell and becoming magnified. Can anybody shed any light on this phenomena? How many people hear this sound? Hi Brother, ZD, think i bought this-up as the character acewall, years back here in ST. This sound we both hear, is used to bring conciousness away from fueling the five senses an focussing the same at ones brain centre. From there, it will appear that the physical body is dying some kind of death;its just that we are focussing on another plane (next plane) of conciousness, of which there are a few. By becoming at peace at each level of conciousness, one can slip into the next layer an so on. was that far too simple ZD?
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Post by enigma on Sept 12, 2013 10:41:05 GMT -5
Greetings.. You don't experience 'being'...you are 'being'... Intending to be the 'experiencer' of yourself when you are yourself, is the minds game of being ' something'... ...the greatest folly of the mind is to be aware of the awareness being aware... Yes, you do experience 'being'.. crafting clever word-games about what you believe 'being' means is no substitute for directly experiencing 'being'.. once you experience 'being', rather than thinking' it, you'll let go of the need to depend on clever word-games.. The "greatest folly of mind", is thinking it knows what its greatest folly 'is'.. Be well.. To 'experience being' is to objectify what you are through an imaginary subject. To be what you are is to let go of what you are not and simply be. What you are does not become another appearance in your dream that you can experience. Being doesn't point to some cool experience, it points to you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 10:43:05 GMT -5
Greetings.. A Scale can weigh many things but it cannot weigh 'itself'... A Knife can cut many things but it cannot cut 'itself'... Being can experience many things but it cannot experience 'itself'... For mind to believe that it can is folly... What is it that is 'being'? 'That which is', is dependent on 'that'.. no 'that', no 'which is'.. That 'you' can ramble on about 'being', positions 'you' prior to 'being'.. 'you' are not a knife or a scale, 'you' are the builder of knives and scales.. You are lost in your conceptual beliefs about 'being', let that go.. just pay attention to what is actually happening.. Be well.. That's good advice actually...just pay attention to what is actually happening and drop your conceptual belief that you can experience Being, experiencing a you that thinks it can experience Being...
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