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Post by Reefs on Aug 9, 2013 2:34:58 GMT -5
interesting post. thanks... I live in the States, and I've been watching the obscene actions of the American government for over forty years now. The ridiculous war on drugs and 'terror', the interventionism overseas, the propaganda, the police state, the crooks and con men like Summers, Rubin, Dimon ... and on and on. And its pretty much the same story worldwide, just one look at a Bilderberger list of attendees will tell you who owns and rules the world. But the masses are mostly oblivious to the nuts and bolts of how the status quo is maintained, most of them just want for the trains to run on time, and enough money to feed their families. I do not see how your dream of equity and tranquility will come to be. World history is littered with tales of Kings and strong men, and the sheep that they tend. Change happens slowly, over the course of many lifetimes; or all of a sudden, as was the case with the French revolution, which only occurred because a critical mass of poverty and injustice created a "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" moment. So what? they got Robespierre instead. It's not wanted anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 4:00:47 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 4:13:08 GMT -5
knocking-off the patients was a way to keep the beds available an Doctors experimenting with new chemicals. Drug companies have come along way, so have insurance agencies an ethic organisations. Now, what % of the mad misunderstood non-duality an offended the Crown?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 12:23:19 GMT -5
You're talking (TO?) soviets here; sounds like an anarcho-communism. The question then is whether anarcho comuunism can be built straight from overthrowing capitalism or if there is transitional state. I have no idea what anarcho-communism is. I do think having laws are necessary with respect to crimes, interpersonal disputes, and safety regulations. There are also services which I feel are better executed through government. Universal coverage of health care, public utilities, roadways, education, etc. Poor execution by the current government is not an argument against having it be a service a government would be better suited at providing. Your emphasis on grassroots, and individual communities reminded me of what a soviet was intended to be. Pure communism (given the anarcho label to distinguish it from state run communism). Your interest in government running the show in things sounds like socialism. Not a prob. Most folks in the US can't distinguish communism from Stalin and Mao. I know this ain't necessarily the forum for this discussion.
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Post by topology on Aug 9, 2013 12:53:02 GMT -5
I have no idea what anarcho-communism is. I do think having laws are necessary with respect to crimes, interpersonal disputes, and safety regulations. There are also services which I feel are better executed through government. Universal coverage of health care, public utilities, roadways, education, etc. Poor execution by the current government is not an argument against having it be a service a government would be better suited at providing. Your emphasis on grassroots, and individual communities reminded me of what a soviet was intended to be. Pure communism (given the anarcho label to distinguish it from state run communism). Your interest in government running the show in things sounds like socialism. Not a prob. Most folks in the US can't distinguish communism from Stalin and Mao. I know this ain't necessarily the forum for this discussion. I don't know about "running the (entire) show" but when it comes to enforcing minimum standards of health, living conditions, and interpersonal behavior, it becomes highly practical if not necessary. And then you have disputes over limited or shared resources. Someone upstream from your grazing cattle dumps their waste in the stream. Government is the enforcement of a will. When I interrupt your behavior, your execution of your will, so that my will dominates, I am governing you. I don't see a way out of having government, even in anarchist communities. One community can dominate another. So I would rather have a government that operates transparently, open to be participated in by all, is about dialogue, facilitating understanding and enforcing minimum standards of living.
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Post by laughter on Aug 9, 2013 13:05:56 GMT -5
interesting post. thanks... I live in the States, and I've been watching the obscene actions of the American government for over forty years now. The ridiculous war on drugs and 'terror', the interventionism overseas, the propaganda, the police state, the crooks and con men like Summers, Rubin, Dimon ... and on and on. And its pretty much the same story worldwide, just one look at a Bilderberger list of attendees will tell you who owns and rules the world. But the masses are mostly oblivious to the nuts and bolts of how the status quo is maintained, most of them just want for the trains to run on time, and enough money to feed their families. I do not see how your dream of equity and tranquility will come to be. World history is littered with tales of Kings and strong men, and the sheep that they tend. Change happens slowly, over the course of many lifetimes; or all of a sudden, as was the case with the French revolution, which only occurred because a critical mass of poverty and injustice created a "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" moment. So what? they got Robespierre instead. Well said Dan ... power is something that is attractive pretty much only to those that would misuse it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 13:08:26 GMT -5
I know this ain't necessarily the forum for this discussion. no worries, let's give this a go. hehe. almost anything would be better than listening to Tzu drone on about the beliefs he sees in others. lol communism sucks. two guys do all the work, while five others get equal shares, regardless of how much production they contribute.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 13:19:25 GMT -5
I know this ain't necessarily the forum for this discussion. no worries, let's give this a go. hehe. almost anything would be better than listening to Tzu drone on about the beliefs he sees in others. lol Calling out the hidden beliefs of others is what most peeps do here. Some call it giraffes. capitalism sucks. 6 guys do all the work, while 1 gets all the riches. Crumbs are thrown to the other 6 in unequal shares to keep them distracted and arguing amongst themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 13:27:09 GMT -5
Your emphasis on grassroots, and individual communities reminded me of what a soviet was intended to be. Pure communism (given the anarcho label to distinguish it from state run communism). Your interest in government running the show in things sounds like socialism. Not a prob. Most folks in the US can't distinguish communism from Stalin and Mao. I know this ain't necessarily the forum for this discussion. I don't know about "running the (entire) show" but when it comes to enforcing minimum standards of health, living conditions, and interpersonal behavior, it becomes highly practical if not necessary. And then you have disputes over limited or shared resources. Someone upstream from your grazing cattle dumps their waste in the stream. Government is the enforcement of a will. When I interrupt your behavior, your execution of your will, so that my will dominates, I am governing you. I don't see a way out of having government, even in anarchist communities. One community can dominate another. So I would rather have a government that operates transparently, open to be participated in by all, is about dialogue, facilitating understanding and enforcing minimum standards of living. Is this a radical view in Lubbock?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 13:30:38 GMT -5
Calling out the hidden beliefs of others is what most peeps do here. Some call it giraffes. that's true, if the one doing the calling out is seeing clearly. but amateurs usually make a mess of things. ;-) may be. and some in the group of six might bemoan their situation, and curse their lot in life. or one of them might have a brainstorm, create an item or service that the others want, attract some capital, and be off to the races...
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Post by laughter on Aug 9, 2013 13:33:27 GMT -5
no worries, let's give this a go. hehe. almost anything would be better than listening to Tzu drone on about the beliefs he sees in others. lol Calling out the hidden beliefs of others is what most peeps do here. Some call it giraffes. If the belief is actually hidden then the only thing that can be called out is a giraffe of the caller. Giraffes are only giraffes if they're in plain view.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 13:44:24 GMT -5
Calling out the hidden beliefs of others is what most peeps do here. Some call it giraffes. If the belief is actually hidden then the only thing that can be called out is a giraffe of the caller. Giraffes are only giraffes if they're in plain view. Yes and seeing a giraffe makes it so.
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Post by laughter on Aug 9, 2013 13:46:19 GMT -5
If the belief is actually hidden then the only thing that can be called out is a giraffe of the caller. Giraffes are only giraffes if they're in plain view. Yes and seeing a giraffe makes it so. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and squawks like duck, then clearly it's a giraffe.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 13:47:39 GMT -5
Calling out the hidden beliefs of others is what most peeps do here. Some call it giraffes. that's true, if the one doing the calling out is seeing clearly. but amateurs usually make a mess of things. ;-) may be. and some in the group of six might bemoan their situation, and curse their lot in life. or one of them might have a brainstorm, create an item or service that the others want, attract some capital, on be off to the races... That's pretty much one of the crumbs -- also known as the American Dream. Might best be represented as a lottery. And if one of those six gets lucky creating a biz they are still within the same system -- the ratio of workers to profiters is the same.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 13:52:49 GMT -5
Yes and seeing a giraffe makes it so. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and squawks like duck, then clearly it's a giraffe.
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