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Post by onehandclapping on Jul 29, 2013 18:52:32 GMT -5
If you are dead set pursuing this intellectually, dive into a tome calked : "The Life Divine" by Sri Aurobindo....its heady stuff, but he is the closest to a western scientist/philosopher/intellectual that went deep into gnosis of this territory, and reported on it in a western intellectual way....might save you having to cover a lot of intellectual territory on your own...pursuing this intellectually can take up a whole lifetime though. Might be quicker, if not easier, to go through Patanjali's 6th, 7th, and 8th "Limbs" and gnosis through direct immersion. 6. Maintain concentrated Attention on one thing until it opens into meditation. 7. Maintain Meditation until it opens into Samadhi 8. Open to Samadhi through 6 and 7 as much and as often as possible This can speed things up considerably, and may only take a few months compared to a lifetime of intellectualism ;-) How's the progress on permanent samadhi coming along? good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad,good, bad, good, bad,good........ Let me get back to ya on that.....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 19:24:20 GMT -5
If you are dead set pursuing this intellectually, dive into a tome calked : "The Life Divine" by Sri Aurobindo....its heady stuff, but he is the closest to a western scientist/philosopher/intellectual that went deep into gnosis of this territory, and reported on it in a western intellectual way....might save you having to cover a lot of intellectual territory on your own...pursuing this intellectually can take up a whole lifetime though. Might be quicker, if not easier, to go through Patanjali's 6th, 7th, and 8th "Limbs" and gnosis through direct immersion. 6. Maintain concentrated Attention on one thing until it opens into meditation. 7. Maintain Meditation until it opens into Samadhi 8. Open to Samadhi through 6 and 7 as much and as often as possible This can speed things up considerably, and may only take a few months compared to a lifetime of intellectualism ;-) How's the progress on permanent samadhi coming along? I wonder if the never ending tips, tricks, links, and book recommendations will end when he does. ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 19:38:58 GMT -5
If you are dead set pursuing this intellectually, dive into a tome calked : "The Life Divine" by Sri Aurobindo....its heady stuff, but he is the closest to a western scientist/philosopher/intellectual that went deep into gnosis of this territory, and reported on it in a western intellectual way....might save you having to cover a lot of intellectual territory on your own...pursuing this intellectually can take up a whole lifetime though. Might be quicker, if not easier, to go through Patanjali's 6th, 7th, and 8th "Limbs" and gnosis through direct immersion. 6. Maintain concentrated Attention on one thing until it opens into meditation. 7. Maintain Meditation until it opens into Samadhi 8. Open to Samadhi through 6 and 7 as much and as often as possible This can speed things up considerably, and may only take a few months compared to a lifetime of intellectualism ;-) How's the progress on permanent samadhi coming along? Progress?
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Post by hybrid on Jul 29, 2013 20:00:40 GMT -5
trf, is the attention is on reason your way of saying "thinking"? i noticed that some people used too much thinking analysing and intellectualiIng as some form of rebuke here as if thinking is a bad thing around this part of the world? why is this so? If your goal is to "figure everything out", then there is no problem with thinking :-) if you want to gnosis your nature in its entirety, thinking can be a "problem". There are aspects of your nature that cannot be fathomed with thought, only immersion will do. Functionally, think of your existance like a funnel of awareness....thinking narrows down the "view" considerably. iow, this kind of rebuke is a teacher-disciple thing?
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Post by hybrid on Jul 29, 2013 20:06:10 GMT -5
If your goal is to "figure everything out", then there is no problem with thinking :-) if you want to gnosis your nature in its entirety, thinking can be a "problem". There are aspects of your nature that cannot be fathomed with thought, only immersion will do. Functionally, think of your existance like a funnel of awareness....thinking narrows down the "view" considerably. If you really want a picture of "your place" in the grand scheme of things, and an operational overview of the working parts so to speak, then you will need to follow the outline of expanding your awareness that has been working for folks for the last 5000 years or more ;-) If after doing so, you want to try and conceptualize the non-conceptual, then have at it, most give up trying though. Some have come close, like Sri Aurobindo though But until you have Gnosissed, it will all be supposition gleaned from others folks inadequate accounts. im kind slow. can you fiii this up for me ... thinking is bad because __________.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 20:18:28 GMT -5
Even before thought there is an experience of "I", though thought names it. "I" before thought is very subtle, often missed, but in its absence in Samadhi, "I" is more palpable. Hmmmm.... Before the thought of I there is an experience of an "I"? Hmmm....... Think you might be stretching here a bit.... I don't know your experience, but its easy to confuse the word/thought and idea of "I" with the actual experience of "I" that the word and the idea point toward....The word/thought/idea of "I" does not arise before thought, because it is a thought, but that which the word/idea/thought points to, which is your experience of individuated Beingness, is there whether thoughts are occurring or not. See for your self, sit with a still silent mind, and you can still feel yourself existing, observing. But even this experience of your "Beingness" (what Niz called the 'I Am') that is there even in silent mind, is still not the experience of your undifferentiated self, and is not Samadhi.How can you know if samadhi is any different than pre thoughts without the reference of self from thoughts? Without thoughts, there wouldn't be a separate self experienced as self is derived from the mind..... Sit quietly and comfortably, and FEEL yourself existing without thoughts....your "I"ness experience is more than just word thoughts, your "I"ness, or I am-ness, is always there silently in the background of all thoughts, first you become sensitive to your absorption in thoughts and realize that these thoughts that you thought were you are not you, and that the "I" that you thought was those thoughts that you were immersed in does not exist. But you have not neti neti-ed enough, because you have not looked at the witness that silently observed that you are not your thoughts....the perspective of "I" is still there, even when word thoughts and ideas are not occurring. When Niz talks about transcending the I Am, he is talking about Samadhi, and when I am talking about Samadhi, I am talking about the dropping away of the silent sense of Being that is there observing your thoughts and ideas when you are not absorbed in thoughts and ideas. The experience would look the same as samadhi if one didn't have any thoughts wouldn't it? . . . No, not as long as there is still an observer to you, even if it is a mentally silent observer that is your experience of Beingness that is there behind thoughts.
Behind thoughts and ideas is your Beingness, behind Beingness there is only absorption into the undifferentiation of _______.
Look and see what is looking at thoughts....this is the "I"....when the "I" that silently looks goes away, when that perspective goes away and is merged with the undifferentiated, this is Samadhi. Samadhi cannot be made to happen, nor is it something that you can do, like having a still mind, Samadhi is the releasing of a perspective that happens when conditions are right, you can create the conditions where Samadhi easily and frequently happens, but you cannot create Samadhi.
Good advice.....even for you...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 20:42:17 GMT -5
If you really want a picture of "your place" in the grand scheme of things, and an operational overview of the working parts so to speak, then you will need to follow the outline of expanding your awareness that has been working for folks for the last 5000 years or more ;-) If after doing so, you want to try and conceptualize the non-conceptual, then have at it, most give up trying though. Some have come close, like Sri Aurobindo though But until you have Gnosissed, it will all be supposition gleaned from others folks inadequate accounts. im kind slow. can you fiii this up for me ... thinking is bad because __________. I cannot, sorry. Thinking is not bad unless you are very often thinking hurtful thoughts that bring suffering or anger. But for the purposes of Gnosis of Self, thought is simply the wrong vehicle. All thoughts have a kind of relativity to them, a reference point, and because what you are is beyond reference points, thoughts cannot fathom it. Said another way, thinking is a kind of placing one's view inside a perspective that creates something like an optical illusion of individuated self and a world of phenomena that is self referential. In the video below, you can kinda get what I mean by sn illusion that is created from the taking up of a limited pespective. Go to the 7:09 minute mark and you can get an idea of what is meant by an "illusion created by a perspective: Thoughts are not "bad" if you like to live constantly in an illusion, but if you would like to not be constantly in an illusion, then thoughts need to be let go of as your reference point, your sense of "I" that is there behind thoughts will need to fall away too. .
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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 29, 2013 20:53:37 GMT -5
im kind slow. can you fiii this up for me ... thinking is bad because __________. I cannot, sorry. Thinking is not bad unless you are very often thinking hurtful thoughts that bring suffering or anger. But for the purposes of Gnosis of Self, thought is simply the wrong vehicle. All thoughts have a kind of relativity to them, a reference point, and because what you are is beyond reference points, thoughts cannot fathom it. Said another way, thinking is a kind of placing one's view inside a perspective that creates something like an optical illusion of individuated self and a world of phenomena that is self referential. In the video below, you can kinda get what I mean by sn illusion that is created from the taking up of a limited pespective. Go to the 7:09 minute mark and you can get an idea of what is meant by an "illusion created by a perspective: Thoughts are not "bad" if you like to live constantly in an illusion, but if you would like to not be constantly in an illusion, then thoughts need to be let go of as your reference point, your sense of "I" that is there behind thoughts will need to fall away too. . That video is awesome. Thanks for sharing it. But it does raise the question - isn't seeing also prone to the illusion of perspective? Not to give Andy any additional fuel, but................ yeah.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 21:02:39 GMT -5
I cannot, sorry. Thinking is not bad unless you are very often thinking hurtful thoughts that bring suffering or anger. But for the purposes of Gnosis of Self, thought is simply the wrong vehicle. All thoughts have a kind of relativity to them, a reference point, and because what you are is beyond reference points, thoughts cannot fathom it. Said another way, thinking is a kind of placing one's view inside a perspective that creates something like an optical illusion of individuated self and a world of phenomena that is self referential. In the video below, you can kinda get what I mean by sn illusion that is created from the taking up of a limited pespective. Go to the 7:09 minute mark and you can get an idea of what is meant by an "illusion created by a perspective: Thoughts are not "bad" if you like to live constantly in an illusion, but if you would like to not be constantly in an illusion, then thoughts need to be let go of as your reference point, your sense of "I" that is there behind thoughts will need to fall away too. . That video is awesome. Thanks for sharing it. But it does raise the question - isn't seeing also prone to the illusion of perspective? Not to give Andy any additional fuel, but................ yeah. Haha, glad you liked it....poor Buddha with no youtube to illustrate a point lol And yes, all seeing, is a taking up of a perspective that causes an illusion, not just seeing, but all the senses, I suspect this is why all the longstanding lineages of of the different schools of meditation talk about first withdrawing from the perspective of being absorbed in thought, and then further removing a limited perspective by doing what they call: "Closing the Gates of the Senses." Snd, its not just optically "seeing" that creates a perspective that produces an illusion, its also the kind of still silent seeing that Tzu talks about....when you are "Seeing" from the perspective of your essential Beingness, you are still experiencing a kind of perspective based illusion, though far less so than when you are "thought absorbed".
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Post by topology on Jul 29, 2013 21:19:09 GMT -5
How's the progress on permanent samadhi coming along? Progress? Oh you know, that thing where one day you are able to spend 50% of the day in samadhi, the next day it's 75%, the next it's 87.5%%, the next is 93.75% but slowly and surely, you work your way to 99.99%, finally a gnat farts and that is the last 0.01% push you needed to cross Xeno's paradox to guarantee that you would never ever, ever never fall into that wicked state of ordinary consciousness ever again.
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