|
|
Post by Peter on Jul 10, 2009 5:16:08 GMT -5
You seem quite invested in this teacher and his work, Illuminate. Are you attending one of his schools? If so, how's that going? What was it like to meet him - did he tell you anything you found personally useful? I've been reading one of his sample chapters that caught my attention: Time and Eternity: Action and DestinyThe chapter listing indicates his latest work gives pretty full coverage to the spiritual life. The short paragraph format makes for an easy read, although I might have preferred a little more discussion around the points he makes. His views on Karma for example seem quite rigid: Extreme reactions by the worldly consciousness?! It seems more likely to me that the world consciousness reacts by just as much as is required and no more. Although that may or may not be true (and I like the idea of life being a completely connected mosaic with every action being directly related karmically), there's a real danger here that a reader might get into thinking that there's no need to try to improve the condition of others (or ourselves) because the situation is 'deserved' - HCSpirit brought this up recently with the Just World Fallacy. Hope you don't take offence at that feedback, Illuminate. It's just that I'm currently enjoying the more conversational and look-at-it-from-all-sides approach of Jack Kornfield (just started reading Seeking The Heart of Wisdom). |
|
|
|
Post by lightmystic on Jul 10, 2009 10:25:14 GMT -5
Hey everyone,
Illuminate - thanks for posting the links - he definitely covers the basics, and he says it pretty well. Always good to do that.
Peter - You're right, the one thing about karma that a lot of people miss is that it's not retributive. That would imply "right" and "wrong" action. It's more like life has natural consequences. A simple example is that if you push people away all the time, the natural result of that is usually having no one in your life. That's not good or bad, it's just the natural result of behaving that way. That's what karma is: the natural results of action.
So there's no "right" or "wrong" behavior as such, but some actions create more suffering for oneself ultimately, and some create less. If the goal is less suffering then it might be desirable to cut down the actions that lead to suffering. But life doesn't care. If anything that could be done was "wrong", then it wouldn't have been included in Creation....
|
|
|
|
Post by illumnate on Jul 10, 2009 11:59:31 GMT -5
Hi Peter and Lightmystic,
Yes, I am attending one of Imre's spiritual schools, a school called the Foundation For Higher Learning. It focuses on the three areas of ourselves that are most in need of attention. the way of devotion, through the heart, the way of wisdom, through the mind and the way of action, by providing service to the world, physically helping and taking action. Therefore he helps his students to focus on these areas in their life and maybe achieve some betterment in society. Or for society to benefit from our practices. This is done mostly through meditation.
As for your question about worldly consciousness, it is not the consciousness of the world, that would be world consciousness but it is the "worldly" that of people in the world, what is perceived to be important and is not. For instance, worldly things are our homes and jobs and cars and such. All the false idols we worship like money and celebrity.
As far as the "danger" of becoming complacent and thinking that life is just going to work itself out, your karmas will come and go so don't bother doing anything... well, not at all, Imre speaks of free will and the reality that a human may accept the flow of life easily and deal with karma as best as they can or they can resist it and make it worse, by dwelling on it or having negative thoughts like "poor me, why me?"
Accept your lot in life AND do your best to improve it. You don't know what's headed your way so be prepared for anything by being as mentally, physically and spiritually competent as possible.
I have met the Guru, Imre Vallyon on a few occasions, I am very intimidated by him because i have such reverence for him. He is such an amazing human being.
Not sure where the discussion of "right and wrong" came in, everything just is and then mankind chooses to put judgement on it.
|
|
|
|
Post by lightmystic on Jul 10, 2009 16:40:59 GMT -5
Hi Illuminate, When reading the chapter, he talked about karma as being retributive - what that means to me is it's punishment for behaving badly (i.e. the "wrong" way) and reward for behaving in a positive way ( i.e. the "right" way). Now, perhaps he means it differently than how I commonly associate the meaning, but it sounds like it's implying there's a "correct" way to behave based on what he said about karma. It's the whole "life is gonna get you" or "well they must have deserved it" mentality, that I personally find to be a grave misunderstanding of karma. It's just that point, as everything else he describes seems to resonate with my experience and observations. Again, perhaps I misunderstood. If I have, would you care to clarify? Hi Peter and Lightmystic, Yes, I am attending one of Imre's spiritual schools, a school called the Foundation For Higher Learning. It focuses on the three areas of ourselves that are most in need of attention. the way of devotion, through the heart, the way of wisdom, through the mind and the way of action, by providing service to the world, physically helping and taking action. Therefore he helps his students to focus on these areas in their life and maybe achieve some betterment in society. Or for society to benefit from our practices. This is done mostly through meditation. As for your question about worldly consciousness, it is not the consciousness of the world, that would be world consciousness but it is the "worldly" that of people in the world, what is perceived to be important and is not. For instance, worldly things are our homes and jobs and cars and such. All the false idols we worship like money and celebrity. As far as the "danger" of becoming complacent and thinking that life is just going to work itself out, your karmas will come and go so don't bother doing anything... well, not at all, Imre speaks of free will and the reality that a human may accept the flow of life easily and deal with karma as best as they can or they can resist it and make it worse, by dwelling on it or having negative thoughts like "poor me, why me?" Accept your lot in life AND do your best to improve it. You don't know what's headed your way so be prepared for anything by being as mentally, physically and spiritually competent as possible. I have met the Guru, Imre Vallyon on a few occasions, I am very intimidated by him because i have such reverence for him. He is such an amazing human being. Not sure where the discussion of "right and wrong" came in, everything just is and then mankind chooses to put judgement on it. |
|
|
|
Post by illumin8 on Mar 28, 2011 8:18:17 GMT -5
I think there's a "right" and a "wrong" way to behave. Karma determines if you've been putting out "good" or "bad" energy. There's dualism in all aspects of life. Ying and yang etc.
What you put out you get back to some degree.
|
|
|
|
Post by karen on Mar 28, 2011 22:26:27 GMT -5
I look at it more like karma is the propensity to react in a certain way. And that ends up looking like acting in "right or wrong" ways. And yeah where the mind is looking, there's duality. Duality is a blessing beyond compare.
|
|
|
|
Post by michaelsees on Mar 28, 2011 22:56:46 GMT -5
Right or wrong has only to do with the subject. Karma only deals with your mind.
Example there are tribes that currently live in Africa where not only is it permissible for the father to have sex with his daughter just before she has her first period if he does not then this means that his daughter has something wrong with her. None of this is looked upon by family members as anything wrong and the word incest has no meaning for them. However over here and in most parts of the world this kind of actively is looked at so badly that people will puke at the thought.
The bottom line location, location, location.
Michael
|
|
|
|
Post by illumin8 on Apr 5, 2011 21:23:10 GMT -5
|
|
