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Post by tzujanli on Jul 19, 2013 19:31:20 GMT -5
Greetings.. "It happens suddenly and is irreversible." Why is that making me sad today? Keep in mind, if it were actually 'irreversible', those that claim to 'know' wouldn't be posting here.. Niz, and his believers, claim there is no "I", no 'you', no 'self'.. it is sad to see the contradiction played-out so clearly, and not seen by the players themselves.. the no-selfs communicate to other no-selfs to tell them they are not a self, when.. if actually 'realized', the communication between 'no-selfs' is absurd If you are seeking, you cannot find, it is in the stillness that 'what is' is revealed.. Niz would have 'you' believe there is no 'you', this his own intellectual conclusion perpetrated upon others to be their illusion.. "Be still and know".. that's all. When others tell you 'what' you 'should' know, they are being disrespectful, not trusting you to see clearly, and presuming your dependency upon 'their' beliefs.. Teaching someone 'what to believe', is tantamount to a 'spiritual crime', robbing them of their authenticity.. teaching someone 'how to see clearly', is a gift of compassion and trust.. having seen/experienced 'what is', there is no doubt, there is certainty that anyone, given the gift of clarity, will see and experience 'what is' with coherent resonance, and they will act accordingly, naturally, and without conflict with 'what is'.. i trust people, when they see/experience with clarity, to find their 'way' in harmony with what 'is'.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jul 20, 2013 5:11:51 GMT -5
Although Niz uses the word "understanding", this part makes it clear that a realization does not implicate beliefiness: " Self -realization is beyond the mind... To know that the known cannot be me nor mine, is liberation enough. Freedom from self-identification with a set of memories and habits. To know the source as source and appearance as appearance, and oneself as the source only is self-realization.." The "knowing" in that last sentence doesn't refer to a manifestation of information. Niz's words were being translated by a non-native English speaker into English....a better translation may be to substitute Gnosis for both "understanding" and "knowing" in that quote ;-) Thanks! Do you have any take on the translation of "ananda" into "bliss"?
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Post by laughter on Jul 20, 2013 5:14:12 GMT -5
Greetings.. "It happens suddenly and is irreversible." Why is that making me sad today? Keep in mind, if it were actually 'irreversible', those that claim to 'know' wouldn't be posting here.. Niz, and his believers, claim there is no "I", no 'you', no 'self'.. it is sad to see the contradiction played-out so clearly, and not seen by the players themselves.. the no-selfs communicate to other no-selfs to tell them they are not a self, when.. if actually 'realized', the communication between 'no-selfs' is absurd If you are seeking, you cannot find, it is in the stillness that 'what is' is revealed.. Niz would have 'you' believe there is no 'you', this his own intellectual conclusion perpetrated upon others to be their illusion..
"Be still and know".. that's all. When others tell you 'what' you 'should' know, they are being disrespectful, not trusting you to see clearly, and presuming your dependency upon 'their' beliefs.. Teaching someone 'what to believe', is tantamount to a 'spiritual crime', robbing them of their authenticity.. teaching someone 'how to see clearly', is a gift of compassion and trust.. having seen/experienced 'what is', there is no doubt, there is certainty that anyone, given the gift of clarity, will see and experience 'what is' with coherent resonance, and they will act accordingly, naturally, and without conflict with 'what is'.. i trust people, when they see/experience with clarity, to find their 'way' in harmony with what 'is'.. Be well.. If that's what you take from Niz then throw him away, yes.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 20, 2013 5:44:26 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Keep in mind, if it were actually 'irreversible', those that claim to 'know' wouldn't be posting here.. Niz, and his believers, claim there is no "I", no 'you', no 'self'.. it is sad to see the contradiction played-out so clearly, and not seen by the players themselves.. the no-selfs communicate to other no-selfs to tell them they are not a self, when.. if actually 'realized', the communication between 'no-selfs' is absurd If you are seeking, you cannot find, it is in the stillness that 'what is' is revealed.. Niz would have 'you' believe there is no 'you', this his own intellectual conclusion perpetrated upon others to be their illusion..
"Be still and know".. that's all. When others tell you 'what' you 'should' know, they are being disrespectful, not trusting you to see clearly, and presuming your dependency upon 'their' beliefs.. Teaching someone 'what to believe', is tantamount to a 'spiritual crime', robbing them of their authenticity.. teaching someone 'how to see clearly', is a gift of compassion and trust.. having seen/experienced 'what is', there is no doubt, there is certainty that anyone, given the gift of clarity, will see and experience 'what is' with coherent resonance, and they will act accordingly, naturally, and without conflict with 'what is'.. i trust people, when they see/experience with clarity, to find their 'way' in harmony with what 'is'.. Be well.. If that's what you take from Niz then throw him away, yes. Like all things, Niz offers Life differing levels of understanding/minding.. it is arriving at a fixed notion of 'what is', that Niz allows belief/attachment to interrupt the fluid dynamism of his relationship with 'what is'.. Of the post you referenced, is the part you bolded what you "take from" that post? Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jul 20, 2013 6:00:27 GMT -5
Greetings.. If that's what you take from Niz then throw him away, yes. Like all things, Niz offers Life differing levels of understanding/minding.. it is arriving at a fixed notion of 'what is', that Niz allows belief/attachment to interrupt the fluid dynamism of his relationship with 'what is'.. Of the post you referenced, is the part you bolded what you "take from" that post?
Be well.. It's all that need be taken from it.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 20, 2013 6:20:45 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Like all things, Niz offers Life differing levels of understanding/minding.. it is arriving at a fixed notion of 'what is', that Niz allows belief/attachment to interrupt the fluid dynamism of his relationship with 'what is'.. Of the post you referenced, is the part you bolded what you "take from" that post?
Be well.. It's all that need be taken from it. Of course.. 'need' is such an interesting limitation.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jul 20, 2013 6:25:46 GMT -5
Greetings.. It's all that need be taken from it. Of course.. 'need' is such an interesting limitation.. Be well.. Best not to read so much into a single word. "Sufficiency" would have sufficed.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 20, 2013 9:24:14 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Of course.. 'need' is such an interesting limitation.. Be well.. Best not to read so much into a single word. "Sufficiency" would have sufficed. Why the 'need' to explain yourself, was your original expression not 'sufficient'? Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jul 20, 2013 10:08:00 GMT -5
Greetings.. Best not to read so much into a single word. "Sufficiency" would have sufficed. Why the 'need' to explain yourself, was your original expression not 'sufficient'? Be well.. Do you see the presupposition in your question?
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Post by zendancer on Jul 20, 2013 10:46:36 GMT -5
Greetings.. Why the 'need' to explain yourself, was your original expression not 'sufficient'? Be well.. Do you see the presupposition in your question? Laughter: Do you see why I remain silent? *laughs*
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 20, 2013 10:49:47 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Why the 'need' to explain yourself, was your original expression not 'sufficient'? Be well.. Do you see the presupposition in your question? No.. why don't you explain it.. wait! wait?.. did you 'choose' to explain yourself? Be well..
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 20, 2013 10:55:52 GMT -5
Greetings.. Do you see the presupposition in your question? Laughter: Do you see why I remain silent? *laughs* Yes. LOL.. good choice.. it's mind-numbing to watch people try to cover their inconsistencies.. there are no inconsistencies in silence or stillness or clarity, or for those not attached to their beliefs.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jul 20, 2013 11:24:53 GMT -5
Do you see the presupposition in your question? Laughter: Do you see why I remain silent? *laughs* The presupposition is mine! (** heel of hand to forehead **)
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Post by laughter on Jul 20, 2013 11:26:08 GMT -5
Greetings.. Do you see the presupposition in your question? No.. why don't you explain it.. wait! wait?.. did you 'choose' to explain yourself? Be well.. There was no need to respond to you. ... unless you want to argue over the definition of the word "need", that is.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 20, 2013 11:56:01 GMT -5
Do you see the presupposition in your question? Laughter: Do you see why I remain silent? *laughs* I wonder?
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