The rectangle one goes like this: Draw a regular rectangle, then draw three straight lines in it.
Thus you have drawn a rectangle with three straight lines
The rope one goes like this, of which i could not find on the internets,
so i will recount the story from an Osho book i read many moons ago.
There is an Eastern story of a king who had a puzzle to solve.
The puzzle was to make a piece of rope longer without doing anything to it.
He summoned all the wise people of his kingdom and not one could make the rope longer.
A zen monk or sufi master was traveling through his country.
Word got back to the king, so the monk\master was summoned.
Upon hearing the puzzle, the monk\master peacefully asked for another length of rope and
that the original one be placed stretched out on the ground.
He then took the new piece of rope which he made shorter than the original
and placed it alongside the original.
He then looked at the king and simply said," The rope is now longer."
It seems to me that nondualists think as much as anyone else and constantly engage others at the intellectual level when they communicate their ideas, concepts, theories and beliefs of nonduality.
But instead of considering the errors others see in their statements might be actual errors,
they constantly state that there are no errors, it's just the mind and thinking can't understand what is being said.
Me, i take the simple approach in that if it looks to me that someone is talking nonsense, there's a high probability it is,
especially when they cannot provide verifiable evidence to support their claims.
I see no reason to doubt your sincerity laughter, however it seems to me the evidence does not support your statement, based on my as.sumption that "we" signifies 'others' at ST.
There are two things I would like to address.
The first is that there are many ways to interpret things.
If so, then duality is as viable a theory as nonduality, yet nondualists, due to their attachment to nonduality,
either do not or can not consider that nonduality may not be as they think it is.
That is the nature of beliefs.
A belief is when one examines, reasons(thinks) and concludes thus labels something to be true, yet the thing does not actually have to be true, thus many have pulled the wool over their own eyes without even realizing it, now deluded into thinking they are seeing actual truth.
I experienced the same phenomenon in the christian section of my life journey.
I left that path because as i immerse myself in it via faith this was the truth, i continued to examine well beyond the point that my peers were totally convinced. If i saw an error\crack\flaw\contradiction\something that didn't add up, i kept looking till i was satisified either i was wrong\misunderstood or there actually was an error.
You say there are many ways to interpret things, but there are many things a person does to hinder this ability.
When the self is clear and still, that's when one can view and contemplate reality unhindered.
But by the time you get to that stage, you become aware you still can't see the whole picture so you stop claiming you know the truth\absolute truth\total truth about things.
You know there is more to explore, thus you remain open and free to continue, you stop attaching truth labels to things you know you have only glimpsed a small part of.
You remain unattached to your own conclusions thus allowing unhindered freedom of inner movement to continue exploring.
I theorise every person interprets reality and the so called claim that a person can reach such a state of purity as to stop interpreting and finally see reality as it really is, is just another theory.
For me, there is enough things to do in life without obsessing over perfect sight and reasoning.
My reasoning is that if humans are interpretive creatures, no matter how clear and perfect one's sight and reasoning is, it's still interpreting.
But the west is in a season of obsession with enlightenment, of becoming all knowing perfect gods\godlike creatures.
it seems the obsession with god has not stopped, just the parameters have changed.
I'm not interested in god, i am interested in myself and others, this planet, this life.
I'm more grounded, more down to earth, i am focused on cleaning up my own being so as to be able to love and be loved as best as possible so as to be a part of ushering in a love based reality.
And i do not need to connect with a god or become a god to do this, nor do i need to know the absolute truth about reality.
I do not see nondualists speaking of alternate interpretations, i see them fixated on one interpretation, nonduality.
And thus they are in the same boat as any other person who has one interpretation of reality.
Each person claiming their interpretation is the total\only truth about reality.
Thus a nondualist has become stuck as much as the other(s) they are pointing their fingers at, a nondualist has become attached to their one interpretation.
And they become attached because they have used their mind and reasoned that nonduality is the truth about reality, just like how everyone else concludes their interpretation is the truth.
But from the believer's point of view, they do not consider\think\see\feel\sense they are attached, because they are convinced it is the actual truth.
They are convinced they are free from illusion, but have not freed themselves from their self created delusion.
Like i said, this is the glitch with beliefs, as soon as you label something as truth, the veil is pulled over one's eyes without even realising it.
Living in their own matrix, convinced what they see is the real reality.
That's my theory, one of many i continue to test and explore.
In conclusion, to me, nonduality is just another god religion because the foundation of it is god.
Me, i prefer to spend my time getting to know me before i start trying to know god.
Um topology, that is your interpretation, not mine.
All i have expressed thus far is...
Interestingly, 77 views and only one person offers a warm greeting.
I stand by my decision as to why i previously left.
Though totally understandable because you all know i do not believe the nonduality theory is sound.
As i said previously, to me the only use it has is to strain spaghetti or any other pasta variants.
That makes me an enemy of the state (of being) for some.
...nowhere in this do i mention i feel rejected or that others have rejected me.
There are many reasons why people did not say hello other than your interpretation of rejection.
Laziness\apathy, social dysfunction,indifference\disinterest, dislike-hatred, shyness, busy.
I simply expressed how it was interesting that no one said hello after it seems every one read my posts.
People can express interest in thing other than being motivated by a desire to quench an emotional disturbance.
My speculation is, going by my past discussions with the nondualists here, that my type of conversations were not enjoyed so why would anyone say hello to me, why would anyone greet me as a friend.
I know myself well enough now that i do not feel rejected when others do not interact with me.
I can be interested why they haven't, but there is no issue of rejection.
If someone stated they do not like me or conveyed to me they do not wish to interact, i would not be offended or feel unworthy.
To me it's simple matter of preference, if everyone here prefers nonduality, i do not feel less than or greater than others because i am not interested in it, or that others do not wish to interact with someone who challenges or disagrees with something they deem to be an important part of their being.
I wonder if you and earnest would have responded to me if i never expressed my interest that no one said hello to me after 77 views.
Oh wait, i don't have to wonder, it actually happened, no one said anything to me after 77 views, apart from laughter saying hello.
No one responded to my first post(33 views), why, i do not know...apart from my speculation that it is not something anyone wanted to discuss, which is ok with me, as i do not discuss things i am not interested in.
Laughter only responded after my second post, why, i do not know apart from the second post must have contained something that changed his mind about me.
And only you and earnest have expressed you appreciate my input, but only after i expressed that i find it interesting no one had said hello.
The bottom line is, no one said hello upon my return, and no one engaged in communication, apart from laughter, until i expressed my interest that no one said hello.
That makes sense seeing as you saw no need to even say hello.
Though i find it odd that you did not even say hello to someone you appreciate.
The only theory i can come up with is nonduality disconnects people from others in such a way as saying hello to someone is pointless because they don't exist, or nonduality attracts similar minded people.
Anyways, appreciating me and not saying hello appear contrary to me
I left because i currently see no value in nonduality for me, others here do value nonduality, so that makes us incompatible for a relationship, other than pointless debating of which i am not interested in, nor am i interested in changing people's beliefs.
I am and continue to be interested in people's beliefs and view and theories about reality, which will includes examination and indepth inquiry, of which i have noticed that the majority of people i have interacted with do not enjoy the exploration.
Yet without my exploration i cannot gain understanding of things that either interest me or i find irrational.
A lot of things i explored and eventually accepted as useful were initially judged as nonsense, so i have learnt through my experiences to never judge something at face value, to not quickly size something up and prematurely judge/reach a conclusion.
But if i cannot gain the information i seek, there comes a time that i have to leave well enough alone.
It seems irrational to remain with people who do not appreciate critical exploration of their beliefs, who simply wish to share their truths with others, who consciously or unconsciously steer most conversations towards nonduality.
I can be annoying to them and i can become frustrated by not being able to venture deeper in.
As i said in the OP says, sometimes the winning move is to not play.
And by win i mean win/win for all concerned.
I do not doubt i am welcomed here apart from the initial lack of response to my return.
The new forum i found is similar to SF, smaller and according to the rules and various threads i have read, far more mature and open minded than the current version of SF which took a huge nose dive ever since neville took over the reigns.
Also, the new forum values the scientific method of examination of spiritual experiences, they are pro mind\thinking, they are not anti ego or self.
"They" as in enough of the members to warrant my joining.
I theorise i will be able to have open and explorative discussions of things that interest me far more than i can here at this time, without the defensive diversionary non partipatory communication styles i encountered here on a daily basis.
Of course there are those that are more open and explorative than others here, but for me, that level is small compared to the other type.
If it wasn't for the openness of those here i would have left far earlier.