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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 11:27:28 GMT -5
Greetings.. The Niz Clan gathers, praying for the blood of their victim... not this week, kids, i'm off to work in the Everglades where the internet is still a rumor.. so, you'll have a week to worship your 'selves' in peace.. but, thanks for the entertainment.. Be well.. tzu- if the opportunity affords itself, snap off some photos of the 'glades. I've never experienced 'em. Have a safe trip.
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Post by zendancer on Jul 7, 2013 12:03:00 GMT -5
If people are happy with their lives, they are unlikely to be seeking anything, much less the meaning of life or an understanding of reality that differs from what they've been conditioned to believe. For those people who set off on such a search (as a result of despair, curiosity, or a desire for greater happiness) ATA may help them see-through a lot of ideas that are keeping them in psychological bondage. If we see someone trying to unscrew a slotted screw with a phillips-head screwdriver, that is certainly an aspect of "what is," but wouldn't it make more sense to suggest the use of a bladed screwdriver for that task than to tell them that things are just fine? I suppose I should have prefaced this by saying I don't even know what the acronym ATA stands for. I made the assumption that it was a method by which to find enlightenment, or to see reality/glimpses of reality, since that is the post topic. Your post here seems to imply that it is a method to find psychological relief and comfort, peace and happiness. For those that are only seeking such relief, it is my observation they will simply adopt a bunch of newer, different conditioned beliefs. Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with that. It is also what is, is it not? I would say reality is sometimes the screwdriver pressed to the head (reference to the movie Pi), and enlightenment is realizing that you are the screwdriver, you are that which holds it to its head, and also that which cannot be touched by the pain ... as you drill a hole in your head. ATA (attending the actual) is simply the activity of looking at the world non-conceptually, which is what little children naturally do. It is perceiving and interacting with reality directly rather than through the mediation of thought. For some adults ATA can lead to insights and realizations that resolve existential questions, and it can lead to psychological freedom. Most people are jerked around by their thoughts and never realize how their habits of thought keep them in a kind of psychological prison. The intellect is a wonderful servant, but it's not a very nice master. If a person is in prison, doesn't know it, and is happy, then there's no point in explaining to that person how to escape.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 7, 2013 12:56:35 GMT -5
Greetings.. I suppose I should have prefaced this by saying I don't even know what the acronym ATA stands for. I made the assumption that it was a method by which to find enlightenment, or to see reality/glimpses of reality, since that is the post topic. Your post here seems to imply that it is a method to find psychological relief and comfort, peace and happiness. For those that are only seeking such relief, it is my observation they will simply adopt a bunch of newer, different conditioned beliefs. Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with that. It is also what is, is it not? I would say reality is sometimes the screwdriver pressed to the head (reference to the movie Pi), and enlightenment is realizing that you are the screwdriver, you are that which holds it to its head, and also that which cannot be touched by the pain ... as you drill a hole in your head. ATA (attending the actual) is simply the activity of looking at the world non-conceptually, which is what little children naturally do. It is perceiving and interacting with reality directly rather than through the mediation of thought. For some adults ATA can lead to insights and realizations that resolve existential questions, and it can lead to psychological freedom. Most people are jerked around by their thoughts and never realize how their habits of thought keep them in a kind of psychological prison. The intellect is a wonderful servant, but it's not a very nice master. If a person is in prison, doesn't know it, and is happy, then there's no point in explaining to that person how to escape. Other than the assumption about what "little children actually do", i agree.. Be well..
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 7, 2013 15:14:30 GMT -5
Did you count yourself as being a student of ZD's? How are you basing your statistics on the success or failure of ATA versus the rate of success/failure of anything else? Please respect the forum rules and post in the "unmoderated discussion" section if you want to troll. Thank you.
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Post by topology on Jul 7, 2013 16:23:26 GMT -5
Did you count yourself as being a student of ZD's? How are you basing your statistics on the success or failure of ATA versus the rate of success/failure of anything else? Please respect the forum rules and post in the "unmoderated discussion" section if you want to troll. Thank you. That wasn't trolling, but the accusation of trolling is your way of avoiding the questions. We'll let the mod decide what is acceptable in the moderated section.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 7, 2013 16:40:22 GMT -5
Please respect the forum rules and post in the "unmoderated discussion" section if you want to troll. Thank you. That wasn't trolling, but the accusation of trolling is your way of avoiding the questions. We'll let the mod decide what is acceptable in the moderated section. My policy is that I don't feed trolls. Please contribute to the discussion or post here: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/board/8/unmoderated-discussionThank you.
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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 7, 2013 19:12:49 GMT -5
Greetings.. LOL.. work it, baby!! looks you got that 'Tzu-Demon', now.. see, that's the thing.. i understand that this is a "BELIEF", i can't and don't say it is "TRUTH".. and when a more consistent and functional understanding is presented, i am willing to revise this belief.. i offered this with the awareness, that it would likely be you, on your quest, to mock and ridicule with the bludgeoning of your superior self-image.. let the beetings continue, LOL..... c'mon, laffy, you can do this deed.. Be well.. Yes Tzu', do stay on that hunt ... but try to find a shred of humility in which to clothe yourself in: if you are speaking from belief your lens is far too cloudy to discern when others aren't. What belief of yours says that he (or anyone) must exhibit humility?
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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 7, 2013 19:29:22 GMT -5
Greetings.. Hi Tzu - so very nice to "see" you again! I like this post very much, and have re-read it a couple of times now. It seems you are saying mind = consciousness, with perhaps a distinction that mind is the individual bubble of consciousness in an ocean of consciousness. Or that is how I am translating, since I first read this thread yesterday on the beach. Hi SQ: I understand mind as the interface between Whole consciousness, and each individuated 'part' of consciousness, as such it acts like a window between the private individuated 'part' of consciousness with its private 'mindscape', that mindscape is like layers of veils, beliefs and knowings, that distort the view/perception through the 'window'.. your interpretation of 'bubble' has a good feel to it, but bubbles come and go with no traces left behind.. it is my understanding that the mindscapes are stored in consciousness as intact and precise energetic echoes of the original, a Cosmic Memory, accessible through when someone's mind is so still that the individuated 'interface'/barrier falls away and the individuated perspective establishes coherence with the Whole.. in this understanding, the energetic signature that is the individuated being resonates with other 'memories', people/places/events, having similar energetic signatures, allowing for clarity to reveal ever greater interactions with the Cosmic Whole, either through stored memories or as what is actually happening, now.. Anyway, thanks for reading.. i suspect there will be the disciples of Niz that analyze and spin this account of my understanding to create the favorite 'Tzu' illusion, we'll see.. Be well.. This sounds to me like a clever way to rationalize that somehow something about us is individual, special, and permanent. Why would you think these individuated parts need to leave any traces behind? Or to collect stored memories? Do you think there's some grand purpose? If so, what is it? Okay maybe you don't know. But what if there's not a purpose, or a purpose, but not any purpose requiring collection of memories? I think you said something about the known exploring the unknown, that's fine but why would there have to be any storing of the discoveries? Is that a human way of looking at things, since our minds tend to collect memories? Memories are required to navigate a time-based reality. If there was no time, just here/now, then no reason to store anything.
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Post by laughter on Jul 7, 2013 19:57:44 GMT -5
Yes Tzu', do stay on that hunt ... but try to find a shred of humility in which to clothe yourself in: if you are speaking from belief your lens is far too cloudy to discern when others aren't. What belief of yours says that he (or anyone) must exhibit humility? Your question contains a presupposition and is out of the context of an ongoing conversation.
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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 7, 2013 20:06:28 GMT -5
What belief of yours says that he (or anyone) must exhibit humility? Your question contains a presupposition and is out of the context of an ongoing conversation. Attachments:
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Post by Beingist on Jul 7, 2013 20:10:08 GMT -5
Your question contains a presupposition and is out of the context of an ongoing conversation. Oh, you're gonna fit in here just fine, SQ.
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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 7, 2013 20:19:02 GMT -5
Greetings.. ATA (attending the actual) is simply the activity of looking at the world non-conceptually, which is what little children naturally do. It is perceiving and interacting with reality directly rather than through the mediation of thought. For some adults ATA can lead to insights and realizations that resolve existential questions, and it can lead to psychological freedom. Most people are jerked around by their thoughts and never realize how their habits of thought keep them in a kind of psychological prison. The intellect is a wonderful servant, but it's not a very nice master. If a person is in prison, doesn't know it, and is happy, then there's no point in explaining to that person how to escape. Other than the assumption about what "little children actually do", i agree.. Be well.. I agree there also about the children. This is a spiritual pet peeve of mine. Little Children - similar to Noble Savages. Actually, I'm also dubious about the whole "actual" part too.
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Post by topology on Jul 7, 2013 20:30:52 GMT -5
Greetings.. Hi SQ: I understand mind as the interface between Whole consciousness, and each individuated 'part' of consciousness, as such it acts like a window between the private individuated 'part' of consciousness with its private 'mindscape', that mindscape is like layers of veils, beliefs and knowings, that distort the view/perception through the 'window'.. your interpretation of 'bubble' has a good feel to it, but bubbles come and go with no traces left behind.. it is my understanding that the mindscapes are stored in consciousness as intact and precise energetic echoes of the original, a Cosmic Memory, accessible through when someone's mind is so still that the individuated 'interface'/barrier falls away and the individuated perspective establishes coherence with the Whole.. in this understanding, the energetic signature that is the individuated being resonates with other 'memories', people/places/events, having similar energetic signatures, allowing for clarity to reveal ever greater interactions with the Cosmic Whole, either through stored memories or as what is actually happening, now.. Anyway, thanks for reading.. i suspect there will be the disciples of Niz that analyze and spin this account of my understanding to create the favorite 'Tzu' illusion, we'll see.. Be well.. This sounds to me like a clever way to rationalize that somehow something about us is individual, special, and permanent. Why would you think these individuated parts need to leave any traces behind? Or to collect stored memories? Do you think there's some grand purpose? If so, what is it? Okay maybe you don't know. But what if there's not a purpose, or a purpose, but not any purpose requiring collection of memories? I think you said something about the known exploring the unknown, that's fine but why would there have to be any storing of the discoveries? Is that a human way of looking at things, since our minds tend to collect memories? Memories are required to navigate a time-based reality. If there was no time, just here/now, then no reason to store anything. Ssssnnake!
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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 7, 2013 20:42:28 GMT -5
This sounds to me like a clever way to rationalize that somehow something about us is individual, special, and permanent. Why would you think these individuated parts need to leave any traces behind? Or to collect stored memories? Do you think there's some grand purpose? If so, what is it? Okay maybe you don't know. But what if there's not a purpose, or a purpose, but not any purpose requiring collection of memories? I think you said something about the known exploring the unknown, that's fine but why would there have to be any storing of the discoveries? Is that a human way of looking at things, since our minds tend to collect memories? Memories are required to navigate a time-based reality. If there was no time, just here/now, then no reason to store anything. Ssssnnake! I'm not saying Tzu is wrong here... he might be right, for all I know. Maybe he sees something I have yet to see. The question is very sincere on my part. Especially since I had an eerily similar conversation today with my daughters. And you know me, Top, when something syncs for me, I pay double attention.
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Post by topology on Jul 7, 2013 21:20:20 GMT -5
I'm not saying Tzu is wrong here... he might be right, for all I know. Maybe he sees something I have yet to see. The question is very sincere on my part. Especially since I had an eerily similar conversation today with my daughters. And you know me, Top, when something syncs for me, I pay double attention. Ritual hazing for you, and I was pledging to become a member of the extra-literalist club.
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