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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 1, 2013 17:26:48 GMT -5
This thread will be about the seminal Realization that leads to Self Awareness and ultimately to Liberation. All are welcomed to contribute. It will open with an excerpt of an article called "The Fire of Awakening" by an anonymous blogger. It echoes Francis Lucilles comments I posted elsewhere yesterday and will soon move here as well.
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"An awakening is typically characterized by a glimpse of the non-dual nature of things. That which is experiencing (Atma) is realized to be the same as that which is experienced (Isvara) because all is an expression of this ‘One’ infinite and everlasting field of pure potentiality (Brahman) that can manifest as any form or phenomena.
Awakening ultimately is the realization that the stories of the mind are devoid of any reality, or Truth, since they are the stories of an illusory, separate and, thus, fearful entity (ego) which is constantly compelled to improve, control or manage its seemingly separate environment to feel secure.
The glimpse into non-dual reality usually marks the start of a process towards full establishment in Truth which can take anywhere from milli-seconds to years to run its course. The ‘processing-time’ is typically defined by two variables: the depth and resilience of the psychological ‘stuff’ (karma) that needs to be seen through and the ‘force’ and vividness of the awakening(s). With ‘stuff’ I refer to deep-seated thoughts and behavioral patterns that manifest in our lives as uninvited ‘hang-ups’ and as psychological suffering.
What the awakening shows us is that our ‘stuff’ is fundamentally unreal, illusory. This doesn’t mean ‘stuff’ will not show up anymore or that we will never again get suckered in by its illusory power (maya). But as we now ‘know’ the Truth, we have an anchor insight which remind us that the fundamental beliefs causing our ‘hang-up’s’ are simply not true""
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 1, 2013 17:31:17 GMT -5
Francis Lucille: ""Although a first glimpse of reality is an event of cosmic proportions, it may remain unnoticed at first and work its way in the background of the mind until the egoistic structure collapses, just as a building severely damaged by an earthquake remains stand- ing for some time and collapses a few months later, gradually or suddenly. This effect is due to the fact that the glimpse does not belong to the mind. The mind, which until now was the slave of the ego, becomes the servant and lover of the eternal splendor that illuminates thoughts and perceptions. As a slave of the ego, the mind was the warden of the jail of time, space and causation; as a servant of the highest intelligence and a lover of the supreme beauty, it becomes the instrument of our liberation.
Two years after the first glimpse, I had achieved a good intellectual understanding of the nondual perspective, although a few questions still remained unanswered. I knew from experience that any attempt to fulfill my desires was doomed to failure. It had become clear to me that I was consciousness, rather than my body or my mind. This knowledge was not a purely intellectual one, a mere concept, but seemed to somehow originate from experience, a particular kind of experience devoid of any objectivity."
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 1, 2013 17:32:46 GMT -5
Nisargadatta: ""Once you get a glimpse of your true state you must stabilize there for eternity."
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 1, 2013 17:42:34 GMT -5
Jean Klein a age 17: "I was waiting one warm afternoon for a train. The platform was deserted and the landscape sleepy. It was silent. The train was late, and I waited without waiting, very relaxed and free from all thinking. Suddenly a rooster crowed and the unusual sound made me aware of my silence. It was not the objective silence I was aware of, as often happens when one is in a quiet place and a sudden sound throws into relief the silence around. No, I was ejected into my own silence. I felt myself in awareness beyond the sound or the silence. Subsequently, this feeling visited me several times." (Transmission of the Flame, iii)
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 1, 2013 18:11:37 GMT -5
This is just the same old voyeurism and fantasizing. We don't care about how it feels like, all we care about is how to get it.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 1, 2013 18:13:53 GMT -5
This is just the same old voyeurism and fantasizing. We don't care about how it feels like, all we care about is how to get it. The forum editor does some strange things with words sometimes. I just changed it to "rooster" to conform to the requirements.
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Post by zendancer on Jul 1, 2013 21:55:02 GMT -5
This is just the same old voyeurism and fantasizing. We don't care about how it feels like, all we care about is how to get it. If you get it, you'll have to let go of it. Same with voyeurism. Let it go, too. The problem is mind, and the reliance upon mind as the sole arbiter of where attention is focused. Look where the words are pointing. They are pointing to how you interacted with the world as a young child. Forget all the non-dual garbage and focus on what can be seen or heard in this moment, and then this moment, and then this moment. Does it seem boring? Forget boring, and come back to here and now again and again until the one who keeps coming back is no longer known. Then, keep coming back until the mind understands what's going on.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 1, 2013 22:08:03 GMT -5
Greetings.. This is just the same old voyeurism and fantasizing. We don't care about how it feels like, all we care about is how to get it. If you get it, you'll have to let go of it. Same with voyeurism. Let it go, too. The problem is mind, and the reliance upon mind as the sole arbiter of where attention is focused. Look where the words are pointing. They are pointing to how you interacted with the world as a young child. Forget all the non-dual garbage and focus on what can be seen or heard in this moment, and then this moment, and then this moment. Does it seem boring? Forget boring, and come back to here and now again and again until the one who keeps coming back is no longer known. Then, keep coming back until the mind understands what's going on. Will you elaborate on your meaning, "no longer known"? Be well..
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Post by amit on Jul 2, 2013 2:28:57 GMT -5
This thread will be about the seminal Realization that leads to Self Awareness and ultimately to Liberation. All are welcomed to contribute. It will open with an excerpt of an article called "The Fire of Awakening" by an anonymous blogger. It echoes Francis Lucilles comments I posted elsewhere yesterday and will soon move here as well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "An awakening is typically characterized by a glimpse of the non-dual nature of things. That which is experiencing (Atma) is realized to be the same as that which is experienced (Isvara) because all is an expression of this ‘One’ infinite and everlasting field of pure potentiality (Brahman) that can manifest as any form or phenomena. Awakening ultimately is the realization that the stories of the mind are devoid of any reality, or Truth, since they are the stories of an illusory, separate and, thus, fearful entity (ego) which is constantly compelled to improve, control or manage its seemingly separate environment to feel secure. The glimpse into non-dual reality usually marks the start of a process towards full establishment in Truth which can take anywhere from milli-seconds to years to run its course. The ‘processing-time’ is typically defined by two variables: the depth and resilience of the psychological ‘stuff’ (karma) that needs to be seen through and the ‘force’ and vividness of the awakening(s). With ‘stuff’ I refer to deep-seated thoughts and behavioral patterns that manifest in our lives as uninvited ‘hang-ups’ and as psychological suffering. What the awakening shows us is that our ‘stuff’ is fundamentally unreal, illusory. This doesn’t mean ‘stuff’ will not show up anymore or that we will never again get suckered in by its illusory power (maya). But as we now ‘know’ the Truth, we have an anchor insight which remind us that the fundamental beliefs causing our ‘hang-up’s’ are simply not true"" Hi justlikyou, "...the stories of the mind are devoid of any reality, or Truth, since they are the stories of an illusory, separate and, thus, fearful entity (ego) which is constantly compelled to improve, control or manage its seemingly separate environment to feel secure." That account is roughly similar to the view that mind constructs a character for defensive purposes. In that view the constructed character is referred to as Ego. The construction is indeed a fiction but it has a purpose and mind constructs it for a that purpose. It is not a construction without value. If one could experience the life of another one would understand the nature of that others Ego and why it was necessary. The Ego is a valuable defense mechanism not to be attacked and derided as though it was a criminal intent on destroying you. Rather it is the opposite according to the view being expressed here. This denigration of the Ego is similar to the allegation TMT and again if seen in the context of each characters experience, the level of thinking would be exactly appropriate. Realization of the above does not mean that the Ego is dispensed with, for that the fears upon which it is realistically based (if seen in context) would have to be resolved. Usually these are to do with long past events unique to each characters life. Understanding this can result in a conscious awareness of the Ego facade that is presented to the world and the extent to which one feels it needs to be used in situations that vary in the level of perceived threat. Likewise one view of nondual realization does not mean the end of the Ego or whatever level of thinking a character may do. In this view such a realization means that whilst one is aware of ones Ego and its use, there is not the additional suffering of feeling disconnected whilst using it. amit
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Post by laughter on Jul 2, 2013 5:22:16 GMT -5
This is just the same old voyeurism and fantasizing. We don't care about how it feels like, all we care about is how to get it. If you get it, you'll have to let go of it. Same with voyeurism. Let it go, too. The problem is mind, and the reliance upon mind as the sole arbiter of where attention is focused. Look where the words are pointing. They are pointing to how you interacted with the world as a young child. Forget all the non-dual garbage and focus on what can be seen or heard in this moment, and then this moment, and then this moment. Does it seem boring? Forget boring, and come back to here and now again and again until the one who keeps coming back is no longer known. Then, keep coming back until the mind understands what's going on.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 2, 2013 5:55:54 GMT -5
This is just the same old voyeurism and fantasizing. We don't care about how it feels like, all we care about is how to get it. If you get it, you'll have to let go of it. Same with voyeurism. Let it go, too. The problem is mind, and the reliance upon mind as the sole arbiter of where attention is focused. Look where the words are pointing. They are pointing to how you interacted with the world as a young child. Forget all the non-dual garbage and focus on what can be seen or heard in this moment, and then this moment, and then this moment. Does it seem boring? Forget boring, and come back to here and now again and again until the one who keeps coming back is no longer known. Then, keep coming back until the mind understands what's going on. Bobby, it doesn't work. I imagine that you will reply, as you usually do, by pointing out that it's the mind and the flawed character that sabotages the efforts or prevents one from doing ATA for a long enough time - but this is simply a strategy of finding something to blame for the fact that ATA doesn't work. Or, that people can't ATA successfully is not a problem of the people, instead it's suggestive of the fact that ATA is a flawed strategy.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 2, 2013 5:57:07 GMT -5
<abbr>youtube vid</abbr>eo When I see these videos the people in it appear to me as monstrous, as if they are no longer human and instead just puppets fully controlled by affects.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 2, 2013 6:25:57 GMT -5
This is just the same old voyeurism and fantasizing. We don't care about how it feels like, all we care about is how to get it. If you get it, you'll have to let go of it. Same with voyeurism. Let it go, too. The problem is mind, and the reliance upon mind as the sole arbiter of where attention is focused. Look where the words are pointing. They are pointing to how you interacted with the world as a young child. Forget all the non-dual garbage and focus on what can be seen or heard in this moment, and then this moment, and then this moment. Does it seem boring? Forget boring, and come back to here and now again and again until the one who keeps coming back is no longer known. Then, keep coming back until the mind understands what's going on. Another excerpt from the article in the OP: "So, the awakening, in a sense, is what ignites the fire that (ultimately) burns all our delusions and leads us into a state of acceptance, surrender and inner harmony and peace. Unfortunately, there are only a few things we can do to accelerate this ‘burning’-process. One thing is to fed the fire. Obviously, the more we hide from painful situations or dis-own the suffering that they bring about, the less ‘stuff’ we expose to the fire. A lot of spirituality is, thus, developing an inquisitive warrior-spirit which supports us in facing the suffering and to look carefully at the stories that come attached to it .The other thing we can do is to constantly remind us of the Truth that we have discovered. The greatest Yogi’s have always said that most of what we can do is abide in the Truth and let the rest take care of itself. Everyone has got the ‘stuff’ that he’s got. Hence, everyone is on its own schedule in this. Patience is paramount. As the process of de-delusioning deepens, the mind-driven individual that we once used to be naturally transforms into a more and more sense-receptive being. As this unfolds, just being and rejoicing in the Truth, that is, one’s Self, becomes enough. We start to live for life’s sake, with all its ups and downs, not to reach a certain goal."
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 2, 2013 7:54:46 GMT -5
This thread will be about the seminal Realization that leads to Self Awareness and ultimately to Liberation. All are welcomed to contribute. It will open with an excerpt of an article called "The Fire of Awakening" by an anonymous blogger. It echoes Francis Lucilles comments I posted elsewhere yesterday and will soon move here as well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "An awakening is typically characterized by a glimpse of the non-dual nature of things. That which is experiencing (Atma) is realized to be the same as that which is experienced (Isvara) because all is an expression of this ‘One’ infinite and everlasting field of pure potentiality (Brahman) that can manifest as any form or phenomena. Awakening ultimately is the realization that the stories of the mind are devoid of any reality, or Truth, since they are the stories of an illusory, separate and, thus, fearful entity (ego) which is constantly compelled to improve, control or manage its seemingly separate environment to feel secure. The glimpse into non-dual reality usually marks the start of a process towards full establishment in Truth which can take anywhere from milli-seconds to years to run its course. The ‘processing-time’ is typically defined by two variables: the depth and resilience of the psychological ‘stuff’ (karma) that needs to be seen through and the ‘force’ and vividness of the awakening(s). With ‘stuff’ I refer to deep-seated thoughts and behavioral patterns that manifest in our lives as uninvited ‘hang-ups’ and as psychological suffering. What the awakening shows us is that our ‘stuff’ is fundamentally unreal, illusory. This doesn’t mean ‘stuff’ will not show up anymore or that we will never again get suckered in by its illusory power (maya). But as we now ‘know’ the Truth, we have an anchor insight which remind us that the fundamental beliefs causing our ‘hang-up’s’ are simply not true"" Hi justlikyou, "...the stories of the mind are devoid of any reality, or Truth, since they are the stories of an illusory, separate and, thus, fearful entity (ego) which is constantly compelled to improve, control or manage its seemingly separate environment to feel secure." That account is roughly similar to the view that mind constructs a character for defensive purposes. In that view the constructed character is referred to as Ego. The construction is indeed a fiction but it has a purpose and mind constructs it for a that purpose. It is not a construction without value. If one could experience the life of another one would understand the nature of that others Ego and why it was necessary. The Ego is a valuable defense mechanism not to be attacked and derided as though it was a criminal intent on destroying you. Rather it is the opposite according to the view being expressed here. This denigration of the Ego is similar to the allegation TMT and again if seen in the context of each characters experience, the level of thinking would be exactly appropriate. Realization of the above does not mean that the Ego is dispensed with, for that the fears upon which it is realistically based (if seen in context) would have to be resolved. Usually these are to do with long past events unique to each characters life. Understanding this can result in a conscious awareness of the Ego facade that is presented to the world and the extent to which one feels it needs to be used in situations that vary in the level of perceived threat. Likewise one view of nondual realization does not mean the end of the Ego or whatever level of thinking a character may do. In this view such a realization means that whilst one is aware of ones Ego and its use, there is not the additional suffering of feeling disconnected whilst using it. amit Seems to me that the ego is a construct of the mind. The mind accumulates stories through conditioning and experience and constructs a "self" identity out of the thoughts and memories about that conditioning and experience. This is ego...or self. Its completely made up. Experience tells me that I am other than my history and conditioning. In fact, I am who I am before I knew a single word or had a first memory. I only know that I had a first memory because I was there prior to it, otherwise how could I have witnessed it when it arose? You may be mixing up the idea of ego with mind. Mind is not who I am, but mind is essential to who I am living and navigating this life.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 8:36:12 GMT -5
If you get it, you'll have to let go of it. Same with voyeurism. Let it go, too. The problem is mind, and the reliance upon mind as the sole arbiter of where attention is focused. Look where the words are pointing. They are pointing to how you interacted with the world as a young child. Forget all the non-dual garbage and focus on what can be seen or heard in this moment, and then this moment, and then this moment. Does it seem boring? Forget boring, and come back to here and now again and again until the one who keeps coming back is no longer known. Then, keep coming back until the mind understands what's going on. Bobby, it doesn't work. I imagine that you will reply, as you usually do, by pointing out that it's the mind and the flawed character that sabotages the efforts or prevents one from doing ATA for a long enough time - but this is simply a strategy of finding something to blame for the fact that ATA doesn't work. Or, that people can't ATA successfully is not a problem of the people, instead it's suggestive of the fact that ATA is a flawed strategy. staying in the present .. doesn't work? where the hell else are you going to go? nevermind ..
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