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Post by enigma on Jul 3, 2013 19:02:41 GMT -5
Greetings.. Surely you give peeps enough credit to recognize the apparent control that you keep pointing out, without you needing to point it out at all. Everyone understands that when they choose to do something, and then do it, this looks like control. 7 billion people understand this, so there's no need for you to keep pointing it out. Have you ever wondered if folks are really talking about something that is not so obvious? Have you ever wondered.... without wondering through the lens of your beliefs? Oh, hey there!, nice of you to drop by.. Oh yeah, it IS control, not just an appearance or 'looks like'.. Be well.. Your refusal to answer the question is revealing.
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Post by silver on Jul 3, 2013 19:06:56 GMT -5
Greetings.. My query regarding you 'interest', not motive, having gone unanswered informs me of your disregard for answers and counsels my similar response.. be advised, in the event you are unaware, that actions tell a story which words might not confirm.. Be well.. He apparently doesn't trust YOUR motives, and for good reason. Oh please, you two. I expect to hear the Dragnet theme song anytime now. Soo sinister, that Tzu.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 3, 2013 19:15:44 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Have you ever wondered.... without wondering through the lens of your beliefs? Oh, hey there!, nice of you to drop by.. Oh yeah, it IS control, not just an appearance or 'looks like'.. Be well.. Your refusal to answer the question is revealing. No.. what is telling is the years that you have refused to have open honest direct respectful discussions about oneness and non-duality, and the excuses you contrive for avoiding those discussions.. i answer your questions, i openly engage.. No, i don't wonder about whether folks are talking about something that is not so obvious.. if it's not simple, clear, and self-evident, it's just conceptual minding, illusions used to distract people from simple clarity.. Be well..
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Post by enigma on Jul 3, 2013 22:23:50 GMT -5
He apparently doesn't trust YOUR motives, and for good reason. Oh please, you two. I expect to hear the Dragnet theme song anytime now. Soo sinister, that Tzu. Just the facts, Ma'am.
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Post by enigma on Jul 3, 2013 22:25:46 GMT -5
Greetings.. Your refusal to answer the question is revealing. No.. what is telling is the years that you have refused to have open honest direct respectful discussions about oneness and non-duality, and the excuses you contrive for avoiding those discussions.. i answer your questions, i openly engage.. No, i don't wonder about whether folks are talking about something that is not so obvious.. if it's not simple, clear, and self-evident, it's just conceptual minding, illusions used to distract people from simple clarity.. Be well.. All around you, I've been discussing those things with others for years. Doesn't that give you a clue?
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 3, 2013 23:47:08 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. No.. what is telling is the years that you have refused to have open honest direct respectful discussions about oneness and non-duality, and the excuses you contrive for avoiding those discussions.. i answer your questions, i openly engage.. No, i don't wonder about whether folks are talking about something that is not so obvious.. if it's not simple, clear, and self-evident, it's just conceptual minding, illusions used to distract people from simple clarity.. Be well.. All around you, I've been discussing those things with others for years. Doesn't that give you a clue? You discuss those things with those that agree with you, or with those whom you can distract with your illusions.. when you are forced to see yourself as you actually are, you run away.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jul 4, 2013 6:20:31 GMT -5
Greetings.. Surely you give peeps enough credit to recognize the apparent control that you keep pointing out, without you needing to point it out at all. Everyone understands that when they choose to do something, and then do it, this looks like control. 7 billion people understand this, so there's no need for you to keep pointing it out. Have you ever wondered if folks are really talking about something that is not so obvious? Have you ever wondered.... without wondering through the lens of your beliefs? Oh, hey there!, nice of you to drop by.. Oh yeah, it IS control, not just an appearance or 'looks like'.. Be well.. (-- mounts_parallel_bars --) For a choice to embody actual control the expected outcome would have to be a certainty with no possibility of interference from any unexpected factor external to the parameters of the choice. Every intersection you drive through could be the portal for a distracted driver to blindside you. Put another way, there is no certainty in this world and if you think otherwise it is because you've deceived yourself. (-- dismounts --)
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Post by topology on Jul 4, 2013 8:27:12 GMT -5
Greetings.. All around you, I've been discussing those things with others for years. Doesn't that give you a clue? You discuss those things with those that agree with you, or with those whom you can distract with your illusions.. when you are forced to see yourself as you actually are, you run away.. Be well.. Can you explain what you mean by Enigma runs away? He's still talking to you, so who/what is running away from what?
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 4, 2013 9:02:28 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. You discuss those things with those that agree with you, or with those whom you can distract with your illusions.. when you are forced to see yourself as you actually are, you run away.. Be well.. Can you explain what you mean by Enigma runs away? He's still talking to you, so who/what is running away from what? Yes, i can.. but, i'm not going to.. you've been present for the numerous attempts to get E involved in a direct discussion, and he makes excuses, usually at my expense, as to why he believes it's not worth it.. what does he run away from? it's plainly stated above, see bolded text.. did you read the post with clarity, or with an agenda?.. Be well..
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Post by topology on Jul 4, 2013 9:13:15 GMT -5
Greetings.. Have you ever wondered.... without wondering through the lens of your beliefs? Oh, hey there!, nice of you to drop by.. Oh yeah, it IS control, not just an appearance or 'looks like'.. Be well.. (-- mounts_parallel_bars --) For a choice to embody actual control the expected outcome would have to be a certainty with no possibility of interference from any unexpected factor external to the parameters of the choice. Every intersection you drive through could be the portal for a distracted driver to blindside you. Put another way, there is no certainty in this world and if you think otherwise it is because you've deceived yourself. (-- dismounts --) *puts a saddle on Laughter's back and mounts* I don't think that's the kinda control Tzu is talking about. *Laughter bucks and Top swings a 10 gallon hat around* I think he was talking about the exertion of control in making a decision *Laughter bucks harder and Top has to grip the saddle horn to stay on* But that kind of control is an illusion *Laughter finally bucks Top and he is thrown to the ground. Top rolls, picks himself up and starts to dust himself off* We are not in control of how our mind thinks. We are not in control of how our mind frames and presents the options to decide between. We are not in control of our predispositions and preferences. *Top feels a very sharp pain in his hind quarters and turns around to see Laughter's horn three inches deep into his left buttock* To Laughter: Fine you win, and if you think you can control your environment through exercising choice between imagined scenarios, you're kidding yourself. *Laughter shoves his horn deeper. Top winces* And to claim control, responsibility, origination, as a person/individual is a form of arrogance. To Laughter: Can you take your effin' horn outta my as.s now? *Laughter pushes harder for good measure* Owwee.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 4, 2013 9:20:34 GMT -5
Greetings.. (-- mounts_parallel_bars --) For a choice to embody actual control the expected outcome would have to be a certainty with no possibility of interference from any unexpected factor external to the parameters of the choice. Every intersection you drive through could be the portal for a distracted driver to blindside you. Put another way, there is no certainty in this world and if you think otherwise it is because you've deceived yourself. (-- dismounts --) *puts a saddle on Laughter's back and mounts* I don't think that's the kinda control Tzu is talking about. *Laughter bucks and Top swings a 10 gallon hat around* I think he was talking about the exertion of control in making a decision *Laughter bucks harder and Top has to grip the saddle horn to stay on* But that kind of control is an illusion *Laughter finally bucks Top and he is thrown to the ground. Top rolls, picks himself up and starts to dust himself off* We are not in control of how our mind thinks. We are not in control of how our mind frames and presents the options to decide between. We are not in control of our predispositions and preferences. *Top feels a very sharp pain in his hind quarters and turns around to see Laughter's horn three inches deep into his left buttock* To Laughter: Fine you win, and if you think you can control your environment through exercising choice between imagined scenarios, you're kidding yourself. *Laughter shoves his horn deeper. Top winces* And to claim control, responsibility, origination, as a person/individual is a form of arrogance. To Laughter: Can you take your effin' horn outta my as.s now? *Laughter pushes harder for good measure* Owwee. You reveal an urgency in your attempts to convince others that there is 'no control' over one's thoughts/decisions.. do you not recognize that as 'you' trying to control what is understood/believed by others? Be well..
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 4, 2013 9:28:17 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Have you ever wondered.... without wondering through the lens of your beliefs? Oh, hey there!, nice of you to drop by.. Oh yeah, it IS control, not just an appearance or 'looks like'.. Be well.. (-- mounts_parallel_bars --) For a choice to embody actual control the expected outcome would have to be a certainty with no possibility of interference from any unexpected factor external to the parameters of the choice. Every intersection you drive through could be the portal for a distracted driver to blindside you. Put another way, there is no certainty in this world and if you think otherwise it is because you've deceived yourself. (-- dismounts --) Your stipulation is flawed.. there need only be a reasonable expectation that the choice will have the intended result.. that life is uncertain is not cause for denial of choice, choice is the mechanism used to preserve physical, mental, and spiritual harmony within that uncertainty.. <-- trips over Bill's gym bag --> Be well..
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Post by topology on Jul 4, 2013 10:08:50 GMT -5
Greetings.. Can you explain what you mean by Enigma runs away? He's still talking to you, so who/what is running away from what? Yes, i can.. but, i'm not going to.. you've been present for the numerous attempts to get E involved in a direct discussion, and he makes excuses, usually at my expense, as to why he believes it's not worth it.. what does he run away from? it's plainly stated above, see bolded text.. did you read the post with clarity, or with an agenda?.. Be well.. I have seen him disengage with you. But it's speculation as to his reason for disengaging. You ask about other people's agenda, but you clearly have one when you engage Enigma. Is your agenda to understand him or make him wrong or something else?
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Post by topology on Jul 4, 2013 10:19:06 GMT -5
Greetings.. *puts a saddle on Laughter's back and mounts* I don't think that's the kinda control Tzu is talking about. *Laughter bucks and Top swings a 10 gallon hat around* I think he was talking about the exertion of control in making a decision *Laughter bucks harder and Top has to grip the saddle horn to stay on* But that kind of control is an illusion *Laughter finally bucks Top and he is thrown to the ground. Top rolls, picks himself up and starts to dust himself off* We are not in control of how our mind thinks. We are not in control of how our mind frames and presents the options to decide between. We are not in control of our predispositions and preferences. *Top feels a very sharp pain in his hind quarters and turns around to see Laughter's horn three inches deep into his left buttock* To Laughter: Fine you win, and if you think you can control your environment through exercising choice between imagined scenarios, you're kidding yourself. *Laughter shoves his horn deeper. Top winces* And to claim control, responsibility, origination, as a person/individual is a form of arrogance. To Laughter: Can you take your effin' horn outta my as.s now? *Laughter pushes harder for good measure* Owwee. You reveal an urgency in your attempts to convince others that there is 'no control' over one's thoughts/decisions.. do you not recognize that as 'you' trying to control what is understood/believed by others? Be well.. Right, there was so much urgency here that I had no time to put into making a creative response.... The only real urgency I've seen is the urgency you display with trying to get your opponents to submit, chiefly Enigma.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 4, 2013 10:24:34 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Yes, i can.. but, i'm not going to.. you've been present for the numerous attempts to get E involved in a direct discussion, and he makes excuses, usually at my expense, as to why he believes it's not worth it.. what does he run away from? it's plainly stated above, see bolded text.. did you read the post with clarity, or with an agenda?.. Be well.. I have seen him disengage with you. But it's speculation as to his reason for disengaging. You ask about other people's agenda, but you clearly have one when you engage Enigma. Is your agenda to understand him or make him wrong or something else? My agenda is to openly, honestly, and directly explore what is actually happening with him.. when i and or others are trying to explore what is actually happening, he and other similarly aligned members interject their opinions without the willingness to openly and honestly explore their own understandings.. E seems to lead that group, and so it's easier to discuss with one than a group of personalities intent on converting people's understandings to align with their's, which they avoid examining in the openness of clarity.. seriously, i'm very interested in exploring what is actually happening, without attachment to beliefs.. the first priority is understanding the nature of 'belief'.. Be well..
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