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Post by laughter on Jul 2, 2013 15:35:48 GMT -5
My 'choosing' was automatic, an expression of the preferences that I have and have no control over to change. I wasn't sure if you were using the term "apply" in the active control sense or in the sense of something just happening, a process which happens automatically like a chemical reaction. Given what you've posted previously, I assume you meant the active-control sense and that is the most common interpretation of events. Here is how language works for me and in my mind. Words evoke pictures. In order to get the right picture conveyed a sequence of words can add to or subtract from the picture being built. I used the term "application" to evoke the default meaning, but then I tweaked the picture arising to replace the volitional control presupposition with what I perceive to be actually happening. Look at the following: 1 + 1 = ? ---- Assuming your mind is not anesthetized, the symbols arranged thusly evoke a very ingrained pattern of thought. That there is a whole thought-form to be completed evokes a pressure to fill that missing component and complete the pattern. 1 + 1 = 3 The thought form now is askew from the standard pattern which creates cognitive dissonance. 1 + 1 = 2 There is no cognitive dissonance here. ----------- None of this took volition, choice or control, it was all automatic. I writing this post, I am not choosing the words, they are arising to be said. There is a quality-control feed-back loop which will re-edit what is said until the cognitive dissonance subsides, but the choice in what words to say is not something I control or direct. Do you understand my explanation for why I used the word "application"? It was to directly evoke that concept that has control baked into it so that the image could be modified and corrected, hence the surrounding explanation of the absence of control. Look at the highlighted text.. do you see where 'you' exercised control, where 'you' tweaked the picture? have you ever typed a word or phrase, realized a better way to state your understanding, and corrected what you had typed? You may find comfort in believing that you don't have control, but 'that' is you exercising control over your beliefs.. It is my understanding that you have adopted a model, and are intent on fitting what is actually happening into that model.. you are thinking/imagining ways to explain how your model works, and you are a very good 'thinker'.. i suspect that you have difficulties with the still mind condition, that you try to 'think it' into happening.. allow yourself the freedom to stop thinking, freedom from the 'known'.. Be well.. Arms, legs, hands and feet are not the only part of the body that can be used effortlessly. It only becomes acrobatics when the contortions begin. Top was trying to explain to you his witnessing of the minds use as a tool rather than the other way around. My guess is that this offends your sense of personality but.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 2, 2013 16:30:05 GMT -5
Greetings.. Look at the highlighted text.. do you see where 'you' exercised control, where 'you' tweaked the picture? have you ever typed a word or phrase, realized a better way to state your understanding, and corrected what you had typed? You may find comfort in believing that you don't have control, but 'that' is you exercising control over your beliefs.. It is my understanding that you have adopted a model, and are intent on fitting what is actually happening into that model.. you are thinking/imagining ways to explain how your model works, and you are a very good 'thinker'.. i suspect that you have difficulties with the still mind condition, that you try to 'think it' into happening.. allow yourself the freedom to stop thinking, freedom from the 'known'.. Be well.. Arms, legs, hands and feet are not the only part of the body that can be used effortlessly. It only becomes acrobatics when the contortions begin. Top was trying to explain to you his witnessing of the minds use as a tool rather than the other way around. My guess is that this offends your sense of personality but. No, it offends nothing.. i don't have a "sense of personality", i understand the influence of identity on an individual's interactions with Life, though.. so what's your interest in this discussion? Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jul 2, 2013 17:06:18 GMT -5
Greetings.. Arms, legs, hands and feet are not the only part of the body that can be used effortlessly. It only becomes acrobatics when the contortions begin. Top was trying to explain to you his witnessing of the minds use as a tool rather than the other way around. My guess is that this offends your sense of personality but. No, it offends nothing.. i don't have a "sense of personality", i understand the influence of identity on an individual's interactions with Life, though.. so what's your interest in this discussion? Be well.. You're always going for the motive-story shoulder grab, even when the most plausible is out in plain sight. Can you let that go of the martial arts training?
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 2, 2013 17:36:44 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. No, it offends nothing.. i don't have a "sense of personality", i understand the influence of identity on an individual's interactions with Life, though.. so what's your interest in this discussion? Be well.. You're always going for the motive-story shoulder grab, even when the most plausible is out in plain sight. Can you let that go of the martial arts training? I'm sorry, you've misconceptualized what is actual, your version of "plausible" applies to your beliefs.. in 'martial arts', attachment to beliefs can be fatal.. by the way, what's your interest in this discussion? Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jul 2, 2013 17:53:41 GMT -5
Greetings.. You're always going for the motive-story shoulder grab, even when the most plausible is out in plain sight. Can you let that go of the martial arts training? I'm sorry, you've misconceptualized what is actual, your version of "plausible" applies to your beliefs.. in 'martial arts', attachment to beliefs can be fatal.. by the way, what's your interest in this discussion? Be well.. I'll take that as a "no". What's your interest in my interest?
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 2, 2013 18:13:25 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. I'm sorry, you've misconceptualized what is actual, your version of "plausible" applies to your beliefs.. in 'martial arts', attachment to beliefs can be fatal.. by the way, what's your interest in this discussion? Be well.. I'll take that as a "no". What's your interest in my interest? Par for the course.. assign your own values and avoid answering directly.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jul 2, 2013 18:32:21 GMT -5
Greetings.. I'll take that as a "no". What's your interest in my interest? Par for the course.. assign your own values and avoid answering directly.. Be well.. I am conscious of my content ... do you deny that your statement applies as equally to you? If you answer no, then it is demonstrable by the words on the page that you are not conscious of your content. I disclaim the first of the pair as motive is, as I've explained to you previously, never not a story. There's no value there to apply. Storytelling these days is reserved for special occasions over here.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 2, 2013 19:52:18 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Par for the course.. assign your own values and avoid answering directly.. Be well.. I am conscious of my content ... do you deny that your statement applies as equally to you? If you answer no, then it is demonstrable by the words on the page that you are not conscious of your content. I disclaim the first of the pair as motive is, as I've explained to you previously, never not a story. There's no value there to apply. Storytelling these days is reserved for special occasions over here. My query regarding you 'interest', not motive, having gone unanswered informs me of your disregard for answers and counsels my similar response.. be advised, in the event you are unaware, that actions tell a story which words might not confirm.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jul 3, 2013 5:41:51 GMT -5
Greetings.. I am conscious of my content ... do you deny that your statement applies as equally to you? If you answer no, then it is demonstrable by the words on the page that you are not conscious of your content. I disclaim the first of the pair as motive is, as I've explained to you previously, never not a story. There's no value there to apply. Storytelling these days is reserved for special occasions over here. My query regarding you 'interest', not motive, having gone unanswered informs me of your disregard for answers and counsels my similar response.. be advised, in the event you are unaware, that actions tell a story which words might not confirm.. Be well.. Ignoring this question implies either that the answer is no or that you are being dishonest. To assign relevance to the order of the request for a story (who asked first) is to assign relevance to yet another story.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 3, 2013 8:00:11 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. My query regarding you 'interest', not motive, having gone unanswered informs me of your disregard for answers and counsels my similar response.. be advised, in the event you are unaware, that actions tell a story which words might not confirm.. Be well.. Ignoring this question implies either that the answer is no or that you are being dishonest. To assign relevance to the order of the request for a story (who asked first) is to assign relevance to yet another story. LOL.. you are stipulating to your own self-proclaimed authority, so.. get back on track, skip the illusions you are trying to create, and concede your desire for gaming your wordsmanship.. (yes, i see the your retort about a missing 's').. failure to reply to the query of your interest, set this mind-game of yours in motion, the sincere answer can end it.. you subsequent response will reveal your intention.. honest answer or more mind-play.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jul 3, 2013 13:25:05 GMT -5
Greetings.. Ignoring this question implies either that the answer is no or that you are being dishonest. To assign relevance to the order of the request for a story (who asked first) is to assign relevance to yet another story. LOL.. you are stipulating to your own self-proclaimed authority, so.. get back on track, skip the illusions you are trying to create, and concede your desire for gaming your wordsmanship.. (yes, i see the your retort about a missing 's').. failure to reply to the query of your interest, set this mind-game of yours in motion, the sincere answer can end it.. you subsequent response will reveal your intention.. honest answer or more mind-play.. Be well..
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Post by enigma on Jul 3, 2013 18:35:57 GMT -5
My 'choosing' was automatic, an expression of the preferences that I have and have no control over to change. I wasn't sure if you were using the term "apply" in the active control sense or in the sense of something just happening, a process which happens automatically like a chemical reaction. Given what you've posted previously, I assume you meant the active-control sense and that is the most common interpretation of events. Here is how language works for me and in my mind. Words evoke pictures. In order to get the right picture conveyed a sequence of words can add to or subtract from the picture being built. I used the term "application" to evoke the default meaning, but then I tweaked the picture arising to replace the volitional control presupposition with what I perceive to be actually happening. Look at the following: 1 + 1 = ? ---- Assuming your mind is not anesthetized, the symbols arranged thusly evoke a very ingrained pattern of thought. That there is a whole thought-form to be completed evokes a pressure to fill that missing component and complete the pattern. 1 + 1 = 3 The thought form now is askew from the standard pattern which creates cognitive dissonance. 1 + 1 = 2 There is no cognitive dissonance here. ----------- None of this took volition, choice or control, it was all automatic. I writing this post, I am not choosing the words, they are arising to be said. There is a quality-control feed-back loop which will re-edit what is said until the cognitive dissonance subsides, but the choice in what words to say is not something I control or direct. Do you understand my explanation for why I used the word "application"? It was to directly evoke that concept that has control baked into it so that the image could be modified and corrected, hence the surrounding explanation of the absence of control. Look at the highlighted text.. do you see where 'you' exercised control, where 'you' tweaked the picture? have you ever typed a word or phrase, realized a better way to state your understanding, and corrected what you had typed? You may find comfort in believing that you don't have control, but 'that' is you exercising control over your beliefs.. Surely you give peeps enough credit to recognize the apparent control that you keep pointing out, without you needing to point it out at all. Everyone understands that when they choose to do something, and then do it, this looks like control. 7 billion people understand this, so there's no need for you to keep pointing it out. Have you ever wondered if folks are really talking about something that is not so obvious?
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Post by enigma on Jul 3, 2013 18:42:58 GMT -5
It would be better to just start new threads there or let Peter move them over as he sees fit. There is momentum here. As long as the discussion is not getting personal, there's no reason to move it. Ok...but he won't move them over there - I don't think - unless and until someone requests it (?) (Sometimes, like on this last page, seems it gets sorta borderline on the personal...*shrug*) I haven't seen a set of rules for this section. My impression is that nothing changes unless a complaint is made, and then the moderating will be less lax than before. It's not clear what that means, so we'll just have to see.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 3, 2013 18:46:19 GMT -5
Greetings.. Look at the highlighted text.. do you see where 'you' exercised control, where 'you' tweaked the picture? have you ever typed a word or phrase, realized a better way to state your understanding, and corrected what you had typed? You may find comfort in believing that you don't have control, but 'that' is you exercising control over your beliefs.. Surely you give peeps enough credit to recognize the apparent control that you keep pointing out, without you needing to point it out at all. Everyone understands that when they choose to do something, and then do it, this looks like control. 7 billion people understand this, so there's no need for you to keep pointing it out. Have you ever wondered if folks are really talking about something that is not so obvious? Have you ever wondered.... without wondering through the lens of your beliefs? Oh, hey there!, nice of you to drop by.. Oh yeah, it IS control, not just an appearance or 'looks like'.. Be well..
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Post by enigma on Jul 3, 2013 18:59:09 GMT -5
Greetings.. I am conscious of my content ... do you deny that your statement applies as equally to you? If you answer no, then it is demonstrable by the words on the page that you are not conscious of your content. I disclaim the first of the pair as motive is, as I've explained to you previously, never not a story. There's no value there to apply. Storytelling these days is reserved for special occasions over here. My query regarding you 'interest', not motive, having gone unanswered informs me of your disregard for answers and counsels my similar response.. be advised, in the event you are unaware, that actions tell a story which words might not confirm.. Be well.. He apparently doesn't trust YOUR motives, and for good reason.
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