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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 20:39:07 GMT -5
]He was characterizing a group of peeps as incapable, and I disagree with that characterization. Being conscious or Realization or what have you, is not a matter of capability, but rather willingness. Everyone is 'capable'. If One is willing and desirous to know the Truth about Who He is, then he is capable of Realization. But if One is unwilling or does not care to know Who He is then he is incapable of Realizing that Truth. Willingness and desire precede capability of realization. No willingness, no desire, no capability. Niz: "It is very easy to be quiet, but willingness is rare." I read willingness and capability as the same pretty much here as well. The frustrating thing on this end of the conversation is that these are after-the-fact characterizations. There is no telling what willingness and capability looks like even in the midst of seemingly great fog. As you know, the appearance of great willingness and capability may be the facade of great stuckness and lethargy. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. Hidden in that discrimination quote is the appearance of volition. Really, discrimination is a description of one part of the story. Maybe this part of the story is showing when the recognition of lack of volition starts to take over. It's a transition to admitting powerlessness.
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Post by Ishtahota on Jun 25, 2013 20:39:51 GMT -5
We are all waiting on someone to come and save us or change this world for us. (NEWS FLASH) We are the ones that we have been waiting on.
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Post by enigma on Jun 25, 2013 23:43:05 GMT -5
]He was characterizing a group of peeps as incapable, and I disagree with that characterization. Being conscious or Realization or what have you, is not a matter of capability, but rather willingness. Everyone is 'capable'. If One is willing and desirous to know the Truth about Who He is, then he is capable of Realization. But if One is unwilling or does not care to know Who He is then he is incapable of Realizing that Truth. Willingness and desire precede capability of realization. No willingness, no desire, no capability. Niz: "It is very easy to be quiet, but willingness is rare." It's an odd way to look at it. If Picasso wasn't willing to become an artist, does that mean he was not capable?
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Post by enigma on Jun 25, 2013 23:48:20 GMT -5
If One is willing and desirous to know the Truth about Who He is, then he is capable of Realization. But if One is unwilling or does not care to know Who He is then he is incapable of Realizing that Truth. Willingness and desire precede capability of realization. No willingness, no desire, no capability. Niz: "It is very easy to be quiet, but willingness is rare." I read willingness and capability as the same pretty much here as well. The frustrating thing on this end of the conversation is that these are after-the-fact characterizations. There is no telling what willingness and capability looks like even in the midst of seemingly great fog. As you know, the appearance of great willingness and capability may be the facade of great stuckness and lethargy. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. Hidden in that discrimination quote is the appearance of volition. Really, discrimination is a description of one part of the story. Maybe this part of the story is showing when the recognition of lack of volition starts to take over. It's a transition to admitting powerlessness. So if there is a willingness to leap tall buildings in a single bound, you should be able to do that?
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Post by quinn on Jun 26, 2013 6:22:41 GMT -5
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. Hidden in that discrimination quote is the appearance of volition. Really, discrimination is a description of one part of the story. Maybe this part of the story is showing when the recognition of lack of volition starts to take over. It's a transition to admitting powerlessness. I don't see volition in that quote at all. If you take serenity to be utter peace - the peace that passes all understanding - it becomes the source of those next three things (acceptance, courage and wisdom). Not so much discrimination, but clarity.
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Post by laughter on Jun 26, 2013 6:33:02 GMT -5
Jly's use of the word paralyzed there, if I'm not mistaken (which I don't think I am at all), is a bit of exaggeration used for effect - I think you know this, E... He was characterizing a group of peeps as incapable, and I disagree with that characterization. Being conscious or Realization or what have you, is not a matter of capability, but rather willingness. Everyone is 'capable'.Fu.kin A'
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Post by laughter on Jun 26, 2013 6:34:32 GMT -5
]He was characterizing a group of peeps as incapable, and I disagree with that characterization. Being conscious or Realization or what have you, is not a matter of capability, but rather willingness. Everyone is 'capable'. If One is willing and desirous to know the Truth about Who He is, then he is capable of Realization. But if One is unwilling or does not care to know Who He is then he is incapable of Realizing that Truth. Willingness and desire precede capability of realization. No willingness, no desire, no capability. Niz: "It is very easy to be quiet, but willingness is rare." There is no answer available to the rational thinking mind as to the question of what the source of that willingness is, might or will be JLU.
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Post by laughter on Jun 26, 2013 6:36:47 GMT -5
We are all waiting on someone to come and save us or change this world for us. (NEWS FLASH) We are the ones that we have been waiting on. Ishy for President!
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 26, 2013 8:01:12 GMT -5
He was characterizing a group of peeps as incapable, and I disagree with that characterization. Being conscious or Realization or what have you, is not a matter of capability, but rather willingness. Everyone is 'capable'.Fu.kin A' It all comes down to word usage and meaning. Let me try again. First, if you want to say everyone is capable, fine. I will take that to mean that you agree that everyone is already fully Who they are... But I also say that most of us do not realize that We are That because the clouds of ignorance render us incapable of realizing it. Without clarity there is no capacity to see. Just a simple look around anywhere is enough to show that few are they who have an interest or desire strong enough to become available to that Realization. I agree that if you do not knock, the door will not open. But the point of the OP is that no amount of preaching and truth thumping is going to make anyone knock when they have no interest...or willingness. It is interesting to note that in the Bhagavad Gita it specifically sets out certain qualifications required for a student to be able to understand the Truth it reveals. The first, interestingly enough, is the ability to discriminate between the Awareness that One Is and the objects that come and go within the Awareness field. If this is not present it is said that the student is not capable of understanding. But it doesn't give up on the student. It proscribes certain practices, like Karma Yoga, to help bring the student to clarity. But again, if there is no willingness to clear the mind, to do the work, there is no capacity to discriminate between what is Real and Permanent and the world of objects. One then remains in delusion and is not capable of such discrimination. I will also say as a side note that it is also possible that by Grace one may come to this Realization. There are other qualifications as well, namely, dispassion; the ability to care not about the fruits of ones actions. This basically means that one realizes that the world of objects offers no happiness and ones stops looking for it in objects. Cravings, and desires and angers and resentments are naturally dropped when this is recognized. Another qualification is a clear and quiet mind that allows for inquiry into the nature of Reality...and lastly, one must have, it is said, a burning desire for Liberation. Without these preconditions, or qualifications, Liberation is not possible.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 8:15:14 GMT -5
I read willingness and capability as the same pretty much here as well. The frustrating thing on this end of the conversation is that these are after-the-fact characterizations. There is no telling what willingness and capability looks like even in the midst of seemingly great fog. As you know, the appearance of great willingness and capability may be the facade of great stuckness and lethargy. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. Hidden in that discrimination quote is the appearance of volition. Really, discrimination is a description of one part of the story. Maybe this part of the story is showing when the recognition of lack of volition starts to take over. It's a transition to admitting powerlessness. So if there is a willingness to leap tall buildings in a single bound, you should be able to do that? Right, that's why I said "pretty much the same here." The superpower capability in this case is willingness.
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Post by andrew on Jun 26, 2013 8:40:58 GMT -5
I read willingness and capability as the same pretty much here as well. The frustrating thing on this end of the conversation is that these are after-the-fact characterizations. There is no telling what willingness and capability looks like even in the midst of seemingly great fog. As you know, the appearance of great willingness and capability may be the facade of great stuckness and lethargy. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. Hidden in that discrimination quote is the appearance of volition. Really, discrimination is a description of one part of the story. Maybe this part of the story is showing when the recognition of lack of volition starts to take over. It's a transition to admitting powerlessness. So if there is a willingness to leap tall buildings in a single bound, you should be able to do that? Bruce Springsteen ''For You''. Great song. ''Didn't you think I knew that you were born with the power of a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound?''
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 9:18:30 GMT -5
Mark 4: 1-20 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower went to sow: And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up. And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: And when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred. And he said unto the, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? The sower soweth the word. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness. And have not root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution arises for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thrityfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 9:27:53 GMT -5
Without ignorance there would be no clarity.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 9:50:32 GMT -5
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. Hidden in that discrimination quote is the appearance of volition. Really, discrimination is a description of one part of the story. Maybe this part of the story is showing when the recognition of lack of volition starts to take over. It's a transition to admitting powerlessness. I don't see volition in that quote at all. If you take serenity to be utter peace - the peace that passes all understanding - it becomes the source of those next three things (acceptance, courage and wisdom). Not so much discrimination, but clarity. Well there's that part about changing the things I can. This serenity prayer always seems to fit when coming to terms with or accepting that which can not be changed. And I think the wisdom is realizing how little of a say we actually have in stuff. AFAIK, it's used a lot in addiction circles, especially AA. One goes from feeling like they have control to realizing they don't. It seems like a signpost in the transition.
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Post by quinn on Jun 26, 2013 12:48:08 GMT -5
I don't see volition in that quote at all. If you take serenity to be utter peace - the peace that passes all understanding - it becomes the source of those next three things (acceptance, courage and wisdom). Not so much discrimination, but clarity. Well there's that part about changing the things I can. This serenity prayer always seems to fit when coming to terms with or accepting that which can not be changed. And I think the wisdom is realizing how little of a say we actually have in stuff. AFAIK, it's used a lot in addiction circles, especially AA. One goes from feeling like they have control to realizing they don't. It seems like a signpost in the transition. Serenity Prayer - Non-dual versionMay I be granted the realization of that which I already am, so that it may manifest in my life as the acceptance of that which appears, the courage to step into the Truth of my being, and the wisdom to know the difference.
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