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Post by Beingist on Jul 1, 2013 18:56:00 GMT -5
Hmmm. I don't need to imagine or envision what an 'amazing relationship' looks like to know that its basically a good thing. Or 'great health'. Are you sure you're just not wanting to answer the question? Fine if you don't. I don't know how to say "I want X" if there is not a clear picture of what "X" looks like. Why don't we just cut to the chase and ask if I want to be happy? The answer is yes. The next question is: What is happiness predicated upon? And here is where all the bugaboos arise. A conditional happiness is not the kind of happiness I desire. The only reason I would chase after an "amazing relationship with a woman" or chase after "amazing health" would be if I thought those things would bring me happiness. But that's not how I see things. Happiness derived through gain translates to unhappiness through loss. The questions I prefer to engage are about "why am I unhappy right now?" and not "what could I get to make me happy?". Rezzin' with the bolded.
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Post by Beingist on Jul 1, 2013 18:57:27 GMT -5
The answer to your question is a fundamental no. Anything that can be brought can be taken away or lost. Okay, forget that word. If LOA guaranteed you unconditional happiness, would you use it? There is no such thing. "Happiness" always comes with strings attached. I'm happier with Peace than I am with happiness.
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Post by andrew on Jul 1, 2013 19:02:43 GMT -5
Can we also assume/pretend that you can use LOA? If you could use it, would you use it to bring about world peace or great health? No, because I neither want nor wish for world peace or great health. Thing is, I already give the LoA some credence. I just don't want for anything to 'use' it for. I also don't look at it as something to 'use'. This is one reason I was asking Figs a few questions regarding 'vibrations'. So far as I can tell, it seems to parallel some of the other stuff I've read and understood. Hence, I see no need to understand any more than I would, say, Buddhism. So the work you do is your ideal work, your health is your ideal health, the world as a whole is your ideal world? You wouldn't have anything any other way at all? To be clear, I put 'use LOA' in inverted commas because saying 'use LOA' is a convenient figure of speech and works with the hypothetical.
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Post by andrew on Jul 1, 2013 19:04:55 GMT -5
Okay, forget that word. If LOA guaranteed you unconditional happiness, would you use it? There is no such thing. "Happiness" always comes with strings attached. I'm happier with Peace than I am with happiness. If you are happier with Peace than you are with happiness, then that still makes happiness your top priority then, no?
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Post by Beingist on Jul 1, 2013 19:21:33 GMT -5
No, because I neither want nor wish for world peace or great health. Thing is, I already give the LoA some credence. I just don't want for anything to 'use' it for. I also don't look at it as something to 'use'. This is one reason I was asking Figs a few questions regarding 'vibrations'. So far as I can tell, it seems to parallel some of the other stuff I've read and understood. Hence, I see no need to understand any more than I would, say, Buddhism. So the work you do is your ideal work, your health is your ideal health, the world as a whole is your ideal world? You wouldn't have anything any other way at all? To be clear, I put 'use LOA' in inverted commas because saying 'use LOA' is a convenient figure of speech and works with the hypothetical. I don't live by 'ideals'. Such is fantasy, to me.
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Post by Beingist on Jul 1, 2013 19:22:21 GMT -5
There is no such thing. "Happiness" always comes with strings attached. I'm happier with Peace than I am with happiness. If you are happier with Peace than you are with happiness, then that still makes happiness your top priority then, no? No, it makes Peace the priority.
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Post by andrew on Jul 1, 2013 19:25:09 GMT -5
So the work you do is your ideal work, your health is your ideal health, the world as a whole is your ideal world? You wouldn't have anything any other way at all? To be clear, I put 'use LOA' in inverted commas because saying 'use LOA' is a convenient figure of speech and works with the hypothetical. I don't live by 'ideals'. Such is fantasy, to me. I know you don't, but idealizing does happen nevertheless, I would say its part of the experience to idealize to some extent. You love your current work so much that you can't see any way that your work life could be improved upon? You are maxed out with passion, enthusiasm and joy for your work?
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Post by Beingist on Jul 1, 2013 19:26:56 GMT -5
I don't live by 'ideals'. Such is fantasy, to me. I know you don't, but idealizing does happen nevertheless, I would say its part of the experience to idealize to some extent. You love your current work so much that you can't see any way that your work life could be improved upon? You are maxed out with passion, enthusiasm and joy for your work? No. Surrender precludes all that for me, anymore. I just don't think in those terms.
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Post by andrew on Jul 1, 2013 19:38:12 GMT -5
If you are happier with Peace than you are with happiness, then that still makes happiness your top priority then, no? No, it makes Peace the priority. Hmmm. That we even do prioritize means that we are prioritizing conditionality (such as 'happiness') over Peace, coz Peace is unconditional by definition. Which means that 'Peace' itself, is a bit of an ideal in its own way.
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Post by Reefs on Jul 1, 2013 19:43:16 GMT -5
I don't live by 'ideals'. Such is fantasy, to me. I know you don't, but idealizing does happen nevertheless, I would say its part of the experience to idealize to some extent. You love your current work so much that you can't see any way that your work life could be improved upon? You are maxed out with passion, enthusiasm and joy for your work? Aren't you getting worked up about this again? Isn't it already way past your usual bedtime?
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Post by andrew on Jul 1, 2013 19:45:49 GMT -5
I know you don't, but idealizing does happen nevertheless, I would say its part of the experience to idealize to some extent. You love your current work so much that you can't see any way that your work life could be improved upon? You are maxed out with passion, enthusiasm and joy for your work? No. Surrender precludes all that for me, anymore. I just don't think in those terms. So you see no circumstance by which your work life could be improved? You would be just as fine to work a 23 hour day as you would a 2 hour day for the same pay? You would be as fine to work in a sweat shop environment as you would an air conditioned office?
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Post by andrew on Jul 1, 2013 19:47:03 GMT -5
I know you don't, but idealizing does happen nevertheless, I would say its part of the experience to idealize to some extent. You love your current work so much that you can't see any way that your work life could be improved upon? You are maxed out with passion, enthusiasm and joy for your work? Aren't you getting worked up about this again? Isn't it already way past your usual bedtime? I'm running a little bit later than usual, but not much. Thank you for your unending concern though.
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Post by Beingist on Jul 1, 2013 19:50:10 GMT -5
No, it makes Peace the priority. Hmmm. That we even do prioritize means that we are prioritizing conditionality (such as 'happiness') over Peace, coz Peace is unconditional by definition. Which means that 'Peace' itself, is a bit of an ideal in its own way. Yes, I figured you'd find some angle on Peace like that. Thing is, Peace is, and always has been ... just 'there'. We all already 'have' it--it's What We are. It's 'what IS'. We just have to get our 'selves' out of the way. 'Wanting' or 'wishing for' anything, or holding anything in our minds or hearts as an 'ideal' only leads to struggle, in my experience. This is not that we 'shouldn't' want anything, but once you transcend the desire, the whole struggle just falls away (as E has noted, interest just falls away). Hence, the whole 'ideal' thing, and the whole 'happiness' thing just seems so silly to me, anymore. It really is a good example of insanity.
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Post by Reefs on Jul 1, 2013 19:50:29 GMT -5
Aren't you getting worked up about this again? Isn't it already way past your usual bedtime? I'm running a little bit later than usual, but not much. Thank you for your unending concern though. Summer holidays?
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Post by andrew on Jul 1, 2013 19:56:06 GMT -5
Hmmm. That we even do prioritize means that we are prioritizing conditionality (such as 'happiness') over Peace, coz Peace is unconditional by definition. Which means that 'Peace' itself, is a bit of an ideal in its own way. Yes, I figured you'd find some angle on Peace like that. Thing is, Peace is, and always has been ... just 'there'. We all already 'have' it--it's What We are. It's 'what IS'. We just have to get our 'selves' out of the way. 'Wanting' or 'wishing for' anything, or holding anything in our minds or hearts as an 'ideal' only leads to struggle, in my experience. This is not that we 'shouldn't' want anything, but once you transcend the desire, the whole struggle just falls away (as E has noted, interest just falls away). Hence, the whole 'ideal' thing, and the whole 'happiness' thing just seems so silly to me, anymore. It really is a good example of insanity. What I am suggesting though is that conditionality and idealizing happens just as part of the experience. It may be silly, but it happens. Its because it happens that we create the idea of there being something unconditional, but this is really just an ideal in itself. Great irony there. 'Peace' points away from ideals, but is an ideal in itself.
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