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Post by harmony999 on May 22, 2009 22:31:05 GMT -5
I'm a middle-aged female seeker (58), and would like to find a friend or two who is really serious about spirituality. I follow a path that is a form of Buddhism, it requires life devotion to the path...coming from a very abusive background I have had a lot of difficulties dealing with negative emotions and anger over the years. I'm working on them still, but improving a lot and am ready to deepen my spiritual practice. I meditate 2+ hours a day, anyone else out there, following a similar path? Spirituality is my life and I have become a little lost from my path, friends to practice with occasionally would be very wonderful!
Be well and happy
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Post by The Uncreated on May 23, 2009 20:34:50 GMT -5
I follow a path that is a form of Buddhism, it requires life devotion to the path... Does it? When you no longer "live" in the conventional sense, what do you suppose will happen to your spirituality? These aren't rhetorical questions. - |
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Post by harmony999 on May 23, 2009 22:34:43 GMT -5
I follow a path that is a form of Buddhism, it requires life devotion to the path... Does it? When you no longer "live" in the conventional sense, what do you suppose will happen to your spirituality? These aren't rhetorical questions. - My spiritual path requires a lifetime of purification and learning how to live with love and compassion for all. As far as my beliefs about what happens after this life I do believe that how we live this life determines what happens, after death. I'm not here to debate philosophies, or faiths though. Just looking to get to know others in my area with a similar faith. Many Blessings |
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Post by The Uncreated on May 24, 2009 6:18:46 GMT -5
My spiritual path requires a lifetime of purification and learning how to live with love and compassion for all. A lifetime of purification. Who told you that? I'll be blunt with you -- acting like a Buddha won't make you one. Forget about love and compassion; in the final sense they mean nothing and sweet emotions and acts of selflessless are no guarantee a person has evolved past the flesh. You do a major disservice to yourself if you let yourself get locked into the common belief that the teaching itself is the solution -- don't be a prop. The only learning that matters is your realization, and if you're earnest it can happen in an instant. After that, whatever emotion that manifests from you are emotions that would all bear the signature of the truth you've become -- whether those emotions are compassion or selfishness, love or hatred. Put the horse before the cart and let it lead the way. After that you may determine for yourself what worth compassion and the like are in the final sense. To answer your question, when you no longer "live", neither will your spirituality. That's your goal, and one you should ensure happens as soon as possible if you are a truly serious seeker. The companions you seek, if they are sufficiently evolved, would expect nothing less from you. Teachings come and go. They are tools, not trophies.Neither am I, but I suggest you seriously consider the following story as told by Buddha. Understand he is implying TO YOU in his message. Regardless of who the Buddha addresses in his talks, always read as if he is directing his message at you alone:
"Bhikkhus, I shall show you how the Dhamma is similar to a raft, being for the purpose of crossing over, not for the purpose of grasping. Listen and attend closely to what I shall say."
"Yes, venerable sir," the bhikkhus replied.
The Blessed One said this:
"Bhikkhus, suppose a man in the course of a journey saw a great expanse of water, whose near shore was dangerous and fearful and whose further shore was safe and free from fear, but there was no ferryboat or bridge going to the far shore. Then he thought: 'There is this great expanse of water, whose near shore is dangerous and fearful and whose further shore is safe and free from fear, but there is no ferryboat or bridge going to the far shore. Suppose I collect grass, twigs, branches, and leaves and bind them together into a raft, and supported by the raft and making an effort with my hands and feet, I got safely across to the far shore.' And then the man collected grass, twigs, branches, and leaves and bound them together into a raft, and supported by the raft and making an effort with my hands and feet, he got safely across to the far shore. Then, when he had got across and had arrived at the far shore, he might think thus: 'This raft has been very helpful to me, since supported by it and making an effort with my hands and feet, I got safely across to the far shore. Suppose I were to hoist it on my head or load it on my shoulder, and then go wherever I want.' Now, bhikkhus, what do you think? By doing so, would that man be doing what should be done with that raft?"
"No, venerable sir."
"By doing what would that man be doing what should be done with that raft? Here, bhikkhus, when that man got across and had arrived at the far shore, he might think thus: 'This raft has been very helpful to me, since supported by it and making an effort with my hands and feet, I got safely across to the far shore. Suppose I were to haul it onto dry land or set it adrift in the water, and then go wherever I want.' Now, bhikkhus, it is by so doing that that man would be doing what should be done with that raft. So I have shown you how the Dhamma is similar to a raft, being for the purpose of crossing over, not for the purpose of grasping.
"Bhikkhus, when you know the Dhamma to be similar to a raft, you should abandon even good states, how much more so bad states." The various nouns in this story each refer to something as the overal theme refers to something. As a serious seeker, you are responsible for knowing what those things are. It should be instantly decipherable to anyone who has cultivated themselves enough in their search, however know that nobody here would attempt to convince you of anything because we search for something that doesn't fall within the dominion of organized religion, yet is the source of it. - |
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Post by harmony999 on May 24, 2009 8:07:49 GMT -5
My spiritual path requires a lifetime of purification and learning how to live with love and compassion for all. A lifetime of purification. Who told you that? I'll be blunt with you -- acting like a Buddha won't make you one. Forget about love and compassion; in the final sense they mean nothing and sweet emotions and acts of selflessless are no guarantee a person has evolved past the flesh. You do a major disservice to yourself if you let yourself get locked into the common belief that the teaching itself is the solution -- don't be a prop. The only learning that matters is your realization, and if you're earnest it can happen in an instant. After that, whatever emotion that manifests from you are emotions that would all bear the signature of the truth you've become -- whether those emotions are compassion or selfishness, love or hatred. Put the horse before the cart and let it lead the way. After that you may determine for yourself what worth compassion and the like are in the final sense. To answer your question, when you no longer "live", neither will your spirituality. That's your goal, and one you should ensure happens as soon as possible if you are a truly serious seeker. The companions you seek, if they are sufficiently evolved, would expect nothing less from you. Teachings come and go. They are tools, not trophies.Neither am I, but I suggest you seriously consider the following story as told by Buddha. Understand he is implying TO YOU in his message. Regardless of who the Buddha addresses in his talks, always read as if he is directing his message at you alone:
"Bhikkhus, I shall show you how the Dhamma is similar to a raft, being for the purpose of crossing over, not for the purpose of grasping. Listen and attend closely to what I shall say."
"Yes, venerable sir," the bhikkhus replied.
The Blessed One said this:
"Bhikkhus, suppose a man in the course of a journey saw a great expanse of water, whose near shore was dangerous and fearful and whose further shore was safe and free from fear, but there was no ferryboat or bridge going to the far shore. Then he thought: 'There is this great expanse of water, whose near shore is dangerous and fearful and whose further shore is safe and free from fear, but there is no ferryboat or bridge going to the far shore. Suppose I collect grass, twigs, branches, and leaves and bind them together into a raft, and supported by the raft and making an effort with my hands and feet, I got safely across to the far shore.' And then the man collected grass, twigs, branches, and leaves and bound them together into a raft, and supported by the raft and making an effort with my hands and feet, he got safely across to the far shore. Then, when he had got across and had arrived at the far shore, he might think thus: 'This raft has been very helpful to me, since supported by it and making an effort with my hands and feet, I got safely across to the far shore. Suppose I were to hoist it on my head or load it on my shoulder, and then go wherever I want.' Now, bhikkhus, what do you think? By doing so, would that man be doing what should be done with that raft?"
"No, venerable sir."
"By doing what would that man be doing what should be done with that raft? Here, bhikkhus, when that man got across and had arrived at the far shore, he might think thus: 'This raft has been very helpful to me, since supported by it and making an effort with my hands and feet, I got safely across to the far shore. Suppose I were to haul it onto dry land or set it adrift in the water, and then go wherever I want.' Now, bhikkhus, it is by so doing that that man would be doing what should be done with that raft. So I have shown you how the Dhamma is similar to a raft, being for the purpose of crossing over, not for the purpose of grasping.
"Bhikkhus, when you know the Dhamma to be similar to a raft, you should abandon even good states, how much more so bad states." The various nouns in this story each refer to something as the overal theme refers to something. As a serious seeker, you are responsible for knowing what those things are. It should be instantly decipherable to anyone who has cultivated themselves enough in their search, however know that nobody here would attempt to convince you of anything because we search for something that doesn't fall within the dominion of organized religion, yet is the source of it. - My friend, your ego is showing. I do not debate spirituality. I have my beliefs which I am sure of, and no debate, confrontation, nor attempts to imply that I do not understand my path will make any difference to that. My beliefs are similar to those of Buddhism, but not exactly the same. True awakening comes slowly as one clears ones mind of human emotions and thoughts. If you or I were truly enlightened we would not be on this bulletin board, writing to each other. I'm not enlightened but have had many awakenings. I do not seek to be superior to another because of that, nor to tell others what to do in their spiritual practice. If others who get to know me begin to have faith in the same way, and means as I do, then I can help them on their path. I try to understand ego and the meaningless of conditioning. If I prepare my mind for awakening, yes, then realization can happen in an instant. But it very rarely happens to the unprepared. You may feel your beliefs are correct, but I know mine are the right way. My friend please spend more time in gaining self knowledge and then clearing your mind of human emotions and ego. Then you will come closer to true understanding. Many Blessings |
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Post by The Uncreated on May 24, 2009 13:03:29 GMT -5
I have my beliefs which I am sure of, and no debate, confrontation, nor attempts to imply that I do not understand my path will make any difference to that. Screw beliefs. Nobody's proseletyzing here. I responded to your thread because you represent what every other half-serious seeker represents -- the status quo. You want comfort and compassion, and all the generally sweet things every other civilian enraptured by new age nonsense wants. I hear every other person speak of compassion this or that as representative of enlightenment. The stark opposites of those things hold just as much stake in enlightenment as your love and compassion. Such is the nature of the unmanifested source, which exists in potential and before the first spark of creation. If we only took a moment and listened to ourselves, we'll realize just how willingly we prolong a collective ignorance. I recognize that in the age of Oprah-endorsed gurus like Tolle and the like, spirituality has somehow become cool and fashionable. But what people need to realize that when you play the spirituality game, you're in it knowing that at some point you and all you value are going to have to go up in flames. That's the point. If your beliefs are similar, then like Buddhism, they're about breaking free of the foolishness and pomp. Whatever road you travel, make sure it's about non-dual TRUTH. True awakening comes when it pleases. That which isn't bound by time doesn't regard such things "slowly" or "quickly." You can have it right now if you fulfill the mere perspective shift required to bring it to fore. In one sense you speak of "true awakening", yet you wish for a lifetime of devotion to some disposable path. Why? At some point you'll need to put your path beneath your foot and step upon it with soiled feet. For your own benefit, see to it that it happens as soon as possible. What happens, happens now, spontaneously and on its own accord. This is no single and traceable cause for why we're here on this bulleten board, whether or not either one or both of us are enlightened. The free will, karmic forces that you think drive all of are ultimately null and void. Despite what you think, this isn't a contest of systems. I urge you with a bit of advice from the Buddha himself to regard your path as the raft, but you appear to wish to ride that raft with no clear direction of where you're going. I repeat: if you expect to find "a friend or two who is really serious about spirituality", there are two possible outcomes here -- you'll end up with companions that will oblige your upholding of the dream or you'll end up with people who might advise that you break out of it, however the language they deliever that message. All you need to do is listen to the message, not the tone. If you haven't in your 58 years yet fostered even the least bit of distaste for "teachings" insofar as they are mere tools to be discarded once they serve their purpose, then those teachings are your shackles and you have work to do. If after setting out on their search one isn't enlightened within five years of hard and earnest effort, the question they have to ask themselves is why they're wasting their time. Lifetime? Hell no. The least likely person with perhaps the least likely attitude might turn out to the as enlightened as the wisest sage. Never assume, only understand. Regards, - |
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Post by harmony999 on May 24, 2009 23:43:24 GMT -5
I have my beliefs which I am sure of, and no debate, confrontation, nor attempts to imply that I do not understand my path will make any difference to that. Screw beliefs. Nobody's proseletyzing here. I responded to your thread because you represent what every other half-serious seeker represents -- the status quo. You want comfort and compassion, and all the generally sweet things every other civilian enraptured by new age nonsense wants. I hear every other person speak of compassion this or that as representative of enlightenment. The stark opposites of those things hold just as much stake in enlightenment as your love and compassion. Such is the nature of the unmanifested source, which exists in potential and before the first spark of creation. If we only took a moment and listened to ourselves, we'll realize just how willingly we prolong a collective ignorance. I recognize that in the age of Oprah-endorsed gurus like Tolle and the like, spirituality has somehow become cool and fashionable. But what people need to realize that when you play the spirituality game, you're in it knowing that at some point you and all you value are going to have to go up in flames. That's the point. If your beliefs are similar, then like Buddhism, they're about breaking free of the foolishness and pomp. Whatever road you travel, make sure it's about non-dual TRUTH. True awakening comes when it pleases. That which isn't bound by time doesn't regard such things "slowly" or "quickly." You can have it right now if you fulfill the mere perspective shift required to bring it to fore. In one sense you speak of "true awakening", yet you wish for a lifetime of devotion to some disposable path. Why? At some point you'll need to put your path beneath your foot and step upon it with soiled feet. For your own benefit, see to it that it happens as soon as possible. What happens, happens now, spontaneously and on its own accord. This is no single and traceable cause for why we're here on this bulleten board, whether or not either one or both of us are enlightened. The free will, karmic forces that you think drive all of are ultimately null and void. Despite what you think, this isn't a contest of systems. I urge you with a bit of advice from the Buddha himself to regard your path as the raft, but you appear to wish to ride that raft with no clear direction of where you're going. I repeat: if you expect to find "a friend or two who is really serious about spirituality", there are two possible outcomes here -- you'll end up with companions that will oblige your upholding of the dream or you'll end up with people who might advise that you break out of it, however the language they deliever that message. All you need to do is listen to the message, not the tone. If you haven't in your 58 years yet fostered even the least bit of distaste for "teachings" insofar as they are mere tools to be discarded once they serve their purpose, then those teachings are your shackles and you have work to do. If after setting out on their search one isn't enlightened within five years of hard and earnest effort, the question they have to ask themselves is why they're wasting their time. Lifetime? Hell no. The least likely person with perhaps the least likely attitude might turn out to the as enlightened as the wisest sage. Never assume, only understand. Regards, - I don't have much time to reply to you tonite, and I merely skimmed your post, but you appear to be filled with preconceived notions of what I am like and what I believe...You assume very many things about me, which are not correct. You seem, might I say, very disappointed with the level of spirituality that you see around you? Am I correct in that perception? So am I. I agree that awakening comes on its own, over time. My teachings say that true understanding takes much longer than 5 years. My awakenings also tell me the same thing. And yes, I do believe in a teaching, and I am not naive and do understand the difference between believing a teaching and true understanding. Your words bother my ego! But I am trying to ignore it. I am learning. Where are you from? What is your spiritual practice like? Tell me if you like. And I will reply if I feel strong enough to. Many blessings |
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Post by The Uncreated on May 25, 2009 7:00:08 GMT -5
As they should. This is no game!
This isn't about blissed out states or cultivating feelgood attitudes. It's about picking a path that suits your temperament, using it for as long as necessary then allowing that path and you to ultimately merge and vanish into nothingness. For most it should take no longer than a few years.
If your path does anything but put the torch to you and everything you stand for, find another path. No true path demands a lifetime of devotion; ego demands a lifetime of devotion. If you want truth, you seek to eliminate the earth from under your feet, leaving you with absolutely no point of reference.
Authentic spirituality is anathemic to ego, so if you ever find yourself on the defense, it might be a good time to analyze why this is the case and to ask yourself precisely what you're protecting.
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