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Post by enigma on Aug 6, 2012 23:56:38 GMT -5
Marie and I had a great squirrel satsang today. We were talking about the core issue of suffering as being the idea that something should not be as it is. In her case, there are some things about herself that she cannot accept as they are and she wasn't willing to let go of that attitude.
I said "What is it that you want to change in me?"
She said "Nothing".
I said "Why is that? God knows I'm not perfect, so what is it that takes priority over you wanting to change me?"
She paused for a moment and said "Love".
I said "Yeeeeess", and she started to cry. A little while later there were several spontaneous contractions of the abdomen. Until now, this energetic contraction had only happened when she surrendered to me, but now it was about her relationship with herself.
She said "I didn't know until now that I haven't been loving myself."
I said "You know from your relationship with me that Love heals all wounds, solves all problems. All of life is a relationship; with yourself, with me, and with everyone and everything in your life. Regardless of the question, the answer is always the same. Love is the answer. Get out of the way and let life take care of itself.
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Post by sharon on Aug 7, 2012 2:24:15 GMT -5
Love stops us from wanting to change other people?
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Post by mamza on Aug 7, 2012 2:28:51 GMT -5
Love allows us to accept the way others are.
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Post by sharon on Aug 7, 2012 2:43:00 GMT -5
Love allows us to accept the way others are. Does that include their belief that are not loved? |
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Post by vacant on Aug 7, 2012 2:53:51 GMT -5
Love allows us to accept the way others are. Does that include their belief that are not loved? What do you mean? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 7:23:34 GMT -5
I find one of the tricks seems to be discerning the argument with what is from an argument that is what is.
Four intense relationships I'm in now -- fatherX2 and partner (AKA family) and me-- is a hot little crucible sometimes. Sometimes 'what is' or This includes conflict that requires intervention. The style of intervention can seem like graceful finesse and sublime skillfulness on one end of the spectrum and clumsy, impatient, irritability on the other.
The graceful finessy stuff is easy to appreciate and love. It's the fumbling ugliness that's hard to love. Most of the time 'loving what is' is not hard to do.
For example, when I see kid1 failing to succeed at using patient communication to protect her space while rascally kid2 sabotages in-order-play, blatant button pushing for the umpteenth time. And me trying to intervene multiple times to find some peaceful solution as my camel accumulates straw (pick your idiom). The heat in the crucible increases, and with it the pressure....
Recently I heard a quote meant for parents. Something like 'don't teach children not to be angry, teach how to be angry.' In any case, parenting requires lots of boundary making, active management, etc. It's sometimes hard to see how those activities are just what is, and not some sort of disagreement with what is.
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Post by enigma on Aug 7, 2012 9:38:20 GMT -5
Love stops us from wanting to change other people? Wanting to help and needing to fix are very different animals. Only one of them says 'this should not be'. |
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Post by andrew on Aug 7, 2012 9:48:11 GMT -5
I find one of the tricks seems to be discerning the argument with what is from an argument that is what is. Four intense relationships I'm in now -- fatherX2 and partner (AKA family) and me-- is a hot little crucible sometimes. Sometimes 'what is' or This includes conflict that requires intervention. The style of intervention can seem like graceful finesse and sublime skillfulness on one end of the spectrum and clumsy, impatient, irritability on the other. The graceful finessy stuff is easy to appreciate and love. It's the fumbling ugliness that's hard to love. Most of the time 'loving what is' is not hard to do. For example, when I see kid1 failing to succeed at using patient communication to protect her space while rascally kid2 sabotages in-order-play, blatant button pushing for the umpteenth time. And me trying to intervene multiple times to find some peaceful solution as my camel accumulates straw (pick your idiom). The heat in the crucible increases, and with it the pressure.... Recently I heard a quote meant for parents. Something like 'don't teach children not to be angry, teach how to be angry.' In any case, parenting requires lots of boundary making, active management, etc. It's sometimes hard to see how those activities are just what is, and not some sort of disagreement with what is. Im feeling ya here max. In a way, being a parent challenges all the ideals that the 'enlightenment' body of work inadvertently sets up. Which is a good thing. Having kids has pushed me to a level of self-acceptance that I don't think I would ever have 'attained' otherwise. |
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Post by enigma on Aug 7, 2012 10:16:51 GMT -5
I find one of the tricks seems to be discerning the argument with what is from an argument that is what is. Four intense relationships I'm in now -- fatherX2 and partner (AKA family) and me-- is a hot little crucible sometimes. Sometimes 'what is' or This includes conflict that requires intervention. The style of intervention can seem like graceful finesse and sublime skillfulness on one end of the spectrum and clumsy, impatient, irritability on the other. The graceful finessy stuff is easy to appreciate and love. It's the fumbling ugliness that's hard to love. Most of the time 'loving what is' is not hard to do. For example, when I see kid1 failing to succeed at using patient communication to protect her space while rascally kid2 sabotages in-order-play, blatant button pushing for the umpteenth time. And me trying to intervene multiple times to find some peaceful solution as my camel accumulates straw (pick your idiom). The heat in the crucible increases, and with it the pressure.... Recently I heard a quote meant for parents. Something like 'don't teach children not to be angry, teach how to be angry.' In any case, parenting requires lots of boundary making, active management, etc. It's sometimes hard to see how those activities are just what is, and not some sort of disagreement with what is. But isn't fumbling ugliness already a failure of love? Of course it's hard to love the failure to allow Love to be. That's what made Marie cry. The games that your children play that bring about your frustration are as much the effect of the failure of love as the cause. Everyone is wanting to know they are loved. |
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Post by enigma on Aug 7, 2012 10:19:59 GMT -5
I find one of the tricks seems to be discerning the argument with what is from an argument that is what is. Four intense relationships I'm in now -- fatherX2 and partner (AKA family) and me-- is a hot little crucible sometimes. Sometimes 'what is' or This includes conflict that requires intervention. The style of intervention can seem like graceful finesse and sublime skillfulness on one end of the spectrum and clumsy, impatient, irritability on the other. The graceful finessy stuff is easy to appreciate and love. It's the fumbling ugliness that's hard to love. Most of the time 'loving what is' is not hard to do. For example, when I see kid1 failing to succeed at using patient communication to protect her space while rascally kid2 sabotages in-order-play, blatant button pushing for the umpteenth time. And me trying to intervene multiple times to find some peaceful solution as my camel accumulates straw (pick your idiom). The heat in the crucible increases, and with it the pressure.... Recently I heard a quote meant for parents. Something like 'don't teach children not to be angry, teach how to be angry.' In any case, parenting requires lots of boundary making, active management, etc. It's sometimes hard to see how those activities are just what is, and not some sort of disagreement with what is. Im feeling ya here max. In a way, being a parent challenges all the ideals that the 'enlightenment' body of work inadvertently sets up. Which is a good thing. Having kids has pushed me to a level of self-acceptance that I don't think I would ever have 'attained' otherwise. Yes, all relationships are an exploration of our boundaries. |
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Post by andrew on Aug 7, 2012 10:52:03 GMT -5
Im feeling ya here max. In a way, being a parent challenges all the ideals that the 'enlightenment' body of work inadvertently sets up. Which is a good thing. Having kids has pushed me to a level of self-acceptance that I don't think I would ever have 'attained' otherwise. Yes, all relationships are an exploration of our boundaries. Aye. I liked the thread title by the way. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 11:05:56 GMT -5
Im feeling ya here max. In a way, being a parent challenges all the ideals that the 'enlightenment' body of work inadvertently sets up. Which is a good thing. Having kids has pushed me to a level of self-acceptance that I don't think I would ever have 'attained' otherwise. Yes I love the crucible. The totally amazing thing is to see how resilient and forgiving children are. It's a continual gift. The forgiving resilience seems harder among the adult relationships. So much of conflict has to do with blood sugar and sleep deficits. Part of being a successful parent is just getting good food accessible and a consistent bed routine. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 11:16:52 GMT -5
But isn't fumbling ugliness already a failure of love? Of course it's hard to love the failure to allow Love to be. That's what made Marie cry. The games that your children play that bring about your frustration are as much the effect of the failure of love as the cause. Everyone is wanting to know they are loved. Sure. I'd say that there is no 'failure to love.' It's just that there are temporary behaviours that mask love. The fumbling ugliness describes such temporary behaviour, sometimes (hyperbolic and self-judgmental). The enforcement of boundaries, controlling of environment, managing social interactions -- these are the things that challenge my sense of 'loving what is,' yet they are all activities I find myself engaging in. |
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Post by enigma on Aug 7, 2012 11:24:56 GMT -5
Yes, all relationships are an exploration of our boundaries. Aye. I liked the thread title by the way. A couple months ago, Marie started a Facebook page called "Love is the answer". As usual, her explorations are perfect. She was also wearing a shirt yesterday that said "LOVE LIFE".  |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 7, 2012 11:28:31 GMT -5
Regardless of the question, the answer is always the same. Love is the answer. Get out of the way and let life take care of itself. Love is a tricky word. I'm sure others would call it knowing, acceptance or just being or whatever else. And they would all be very right in doing so. It can be looked at in many different ways. Four intense relationships I'm in now -- fatherX2 and partner (AKA family) and me-- is a hot little crucible sometimes. Sometimes 'what is' or This includes conflict that requires intervention. The style of intervention can seem like graceful finesse and sublime skillfulness on one end of the spectrum and clumsy, impatient, irritability on the other. Seems to me you have your priorities upside down. In the LOA teachings (Abraham-Hicks version) they say: The only responsibility you have to your children is to provide an avenue into the physical. So after you have given birth, your responsibility is basically over. Let them work it out. Im feeling ya here max. In a way, being a parent challenges all the ideals that the 'enlightenment' body of work inadvertently sets up. Which is a good thing. Having kids has pushed me to a level of self-acceptance that I don't think I would ever have 'attained' otherwise. What ideals? |
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