How did Gandhi manifest something so powerful?

[fear]

I recently watched the movie Gandhi and it blew me away. How could one man, single handedly leave the British no choice but to give India it's independance?

This one man had the full support of 350million indians. When they acted violently, he fasted until all the violence stopped even though he was on the brink of death. In fact it was his impending death that caused the stoppage of violence.

I know there have been powerful people in the past but they all fell. Gandhi never fell and only gained more and more power and was never corrupted by it.

So how did he do it? How could one little man manifest such action?

I've read that it was the simple fact that he was never against the British but was for India. So he only injected positivity into the situation and nothing negative. Is this true?

[lightmystic]

Devotion and Humility is the most powerful force in Creation....

[fear]

Yes they may be the most

powerful but why is it that no one uses these to better themselves or mankind.

This includes me. I'm more interested in making money that I am in devotion or humility. I think that we say they are the most powerful qualites but we don't really believe it. Because we never act in those directions.

Why doesn't anyone against the war in iraq or afganistan sit on the steps of capitol hill and fast until the death. Would it work?

Why doesn't Greenpeace ( I happen to be a member) use these techniques to stop atrocities against animals instead of ramming russian whaling boats.

Why do we throw criminals in prison and release them to become even more violent instead of using techniques of non violence to rehabilitate them.

Clearly the world does not believe that Devotion and Humility are powerful. They are seen as weaknesses.

[lightmystic]

Humility and devotion are the only things I care about at this point. I have never seen anything so amazingly powerful... I do not believe, however, that the events that hurt others need to be stopped. I suppose I could devote my life to stopping this thing or changing that thing, but, ultimately my role is what it is supposed to be, and looks like what it's supposed to look like. I have had the blessings of being able to help many people, and who really knows what the karmic effects of that are going to be. As to what others believe, that is their business not mine. I'm only concerned with truth, not so much with what other people may be confused about, unless they have the desire to go towards truth themselves.

I guess I just don't understand why people think that the world is supposed to be changed. Don't get me wrong, I used to suffer because there was suffering in the world. But, at some point, I realized I was suffering because there was suffering in me. It had nothing to do with anyone or anything else. Those were just the triggers for the pain already in me. At that point, it was time to acknowledge the pain and let it out. But once it was gone, it was gone, and so the theoretical suffering or lack of suffering of others is kind of not about me. If it DOES involve me in some way, I want to help, but it's important to let others have their lives. It's not my responsibility, nor would it be appropriate, to try to get involved and make better choices for them.

I don't know if what I'm saying is coming across....does that make sense?

P.S. Think of all the good you could do with the world if you make millions of dollars. Perhaps your role is to help the world in that way, and you're right on track....

[fear]

I completely understand what you are saying. I find that I suffer with the world. Their suffering is mine also. This is what happens when I allow things to just be.

I happend to drive by a colorfully painted building today in downtown Toronto and on the side it said:

Be the change that you want the world to be, Gandhi

Coincidence that I ran into this or what? But it pretty much says what you are saying.

So what happens when you watch T.V and see mankind destroying himself and others. How do you react to that?

For me I find that I do not fit into society as I know it. I see our world leaders making poor choices and I feel sorry for all the people under that poor leadership. I want them to make better choices.The only difference between me and them is that when I suffered I wanted to know why and finding out that answer opened doors I never knew were there but even so I don't feel like I've gone anywhere, I'm still here as I always was.

[souley]

I find that the more at peace I get with me in general, which means I guess, the less I identify with ego, the less I am troubled about the world in general. When I think about kids, women and people in general suffering I'm like yeah.. that sucks, but thats the world. But when I think of Gandhi, I am more touched by his actions now then I would be previously. This is whats happening and I cant really explain why. Objectively and according to the norms of society it seems that I'm getting cut off from the world or something, and I guess thats true? On some level it's like I should have a guilty conscience for not feeling like I'm supposed to, but I really dont.

This fits very well what LM is saying. But I'm not really on terms with this yet, this is the way I feel, but I don't know where this fits in with society in general. How can I explain to someone that I don't care about suffering, and that it doesn't feel egoistic at all. It's like a fundamental human function to care about others, and I still really do, but not in this 'suffering of the world' sense. Maybe I will understand this better after some time.

And yeah Gandhi is awesome, I couldn't resist reading up on him on wikipedia after reading this post:)

[lightmystic]

Well, I've found that any pain that comes up is simply triggering the pain already in there. Thus, putting attention on it allows the pain to release and there is no more pain there. It is no longer triggered.

Thus, these days when I see people hurting others, it sparks compassion, but compassion does not hurt. It's just a greater flow of the heart. It also sparks annoyance... "God those people are idiots!"

Feb 12, 2009 14:58:04 GMT -5 fear said:

I completely understand what you are saying. I find that I suffer with the world. Their suffering is mine also. This is what happens when I allow things to just be.

I happend to drive by a colorfully painted building today in downtown Toronto and on the side it said:

Be the change that you want the world to be, Gandhi

Coincidence that I ran into this or what? But it pretty much says what you are saying.

So what happens when you watch T.V and see mankind destroying himself and others. How do you react to that?

For me I find that I do not fit into society as I know it. I see our world leaders making poor choices and I feel sorry for all the people under that poor leadership. I want them to make better choices.The only difference between me and them is that when I suffered I wanted to know why and finding out that answer opened doors I never knew were there but even so I don't feel like I've gone anywhere, I'm still here as I always was.

[lightmystic]

Beautifully put. That is my experience too.

See what you think about this: if you are hurting because someone else is suffering, then there are two people suffering. That doesn't help. Further, it often incapacitates people and makes it very hard to help. Thus, ironically, NOT hurting when encountering suffering not only is the most sane, open, healthy response, but it's also, ironically, the one that puts us in the best position to help others.

My experience is that, when there is no pain when encountering a "sad" situation, the rightness is allowed to shine through. What results is a flow of love and compassion that doesn't hurt, but actually feels right. There is simply a natural desire to send healing to that person. It's not necessarily a conscious thing, but I find it to be really amazing...

Feb 13, 2009 4:14:09 GMT -5 souley said:

I find that the more at peace I get with me in general, which means I guess, the less I identify with ego, the less I am troubled about the world in general. When I think about kids, women and people in general suffering I'm like yeah.. that sucks, but thats the world. But when I think of Gandhi, I am more touched by his actions now then I would be previously. This is whats happening and I cant really explain why. Objectively and according to the norms of society it seems that I'm getting cut off from the world or something, and I guess thats true? On some level it's like I should have a guilty conscience for not feeling like I'm supposed to, but I really dont.

This fits very well what LM is saying. But I'm not really on terms with this yet, this is the way I feel, but I don't know where this fits in with society in general. How can I explain to someone that I don't care about suffering, and that it doesn't feel egoistic at all. It's like a fundamental human function to care about others, and I still really do, but not in this 'suffering of the world' sense. Maybe I will understand this better after some time.

And yeah Gandhi is awesome, I couldn't resist reading up on him on wikipedia after reading this post:)

[fear]

Makes sense what both of you are saying and I do feel the same way but it's like seeing someone fruitlessly attempting to deal with a problem they are not qualified to deal with. I'm watching them ruin this world that I am a part of. I know that I can do a better job in some of those areas. And I do say the same thing, "what idiots".

I find that it is like being on a boat with many holes in it. I can casually observe the boat sinking and say, it's got nothing to do with me, I'm not suffering, I've got two holes plugged with my 2 hands, so what about the other 100 holes in the boat. Well guess what that boat is sinking with you in it.

[lightmystic]

We're all going to go down?