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Post by gone on Jun 14, 2011 16:55:42 GMT -5
the only unenlightened thing that one can do is resist what is. everything and everyone is going to suffer either mentally or physically and resistance will only heighten the suffering. and if you is looking around for a door, or believe that you have come to one you are already forked.
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Post by enigma on Jun 14, 2011 18:42:48 GMT -5
"Why would this 'This' do this to 'Itself'?
Yeah, I know, 'itself' is a mind-generated illusion, etc... but still, why would 'This' even allow for the possibility of the illusion of pain and suffering? What would be the point?"
"This" isn't a person who has plans and reasons and such. At this point, i dunno what anybody thinks they mean by "This" so I guess I'll avoid it. What's happening is unfolding spontaneously from the intelligence that you are. Nobody is thinking about what to create. Thinking is part of the creation.
Ending suffering isn't about having the ultimate, exciting experience. The focus on new and improved experiences implies a misconception about the cause of suffering.
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maxie
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by maxie on Jun 15, 2011 10:13:43 GMT -5
So much talk about being in the 'Now', and how that is the key... Well, what if Now sucks? Like being tortured? The Now is what is. "The now sucks" is a judgment call, a judgement of what is. If pain is happening in the Now, that's what is happening. The total acceptance of what is, of Now, is a way to liberation. And the more difficult the acceptance, once accepted, the deeper into Being.
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dave
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by dave on Jun 15, 2011 14:18:13 GMT -5
What am I afraid to lose? Good question. Ego? Maybe, but I can't imagine not having one, so I don't know how I would fear losing it. I think maybe fear of wasting time on yet another dead end, perhaps. Which ties back into the whole 'time' thing... I try ATA every chance I get (which means every time I remember), but I haven't had any real 'glimpses' to encourage me on, no experience yet of 'no experience', as I vaguely recall having had as a little, little kid...
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iam
New Member
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Post by iam on Jun 15, 2011 15:23:47 GMT -5
Now only sucks when you are expecting something from it
being in the NOW has no reflection
and I only know when I am not in it
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Post by heretic on Jun 15, 2011 15:25:02 GMT -5
Sex is transcendence as is the presence/awareness of ATA, meditation, or mindfulness is transcendence. If you’re really alive to your sexuality, if you let go during the sexual experience, you lose track of time. Your ego is not there. There is a sense of vulnerability, surrender, mystery, joy. You are aware in the body... Get some candles...
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Post by therealfake on Jun 15, 2011 16:13:40 GMT -5
What am I afraid to lose? Good question. Ego? Maybe, but I can't imagine not having one, so I don't know how I would fear losing it. I think maybe fear of wasting time on yet another dead end, perhaps. Which ties back into the whole 'time' thing... I try ATA every chance I get (which means every time I remember), but I haven't had any real 'glimpses' to encourage me on, no experience yet of 'no experience', as I vaguely recall having had as a little, little kid... As a little little kid you were ATA of the non conceptual world... Today you are ATA of the conceptual world... And the difference is the difference between illusion and truth. Look at anything you like and know you are looking at the conceptual world... Now look at that same thing with no thoughts, until your mind let's go of it's description of whatever your looking at. When you realize that you don't know what your looking at... that's the non conceptual whatever it is, your looking at... We are looking at the non conceptual world all the time... But the mind covers it up with the conceptual interpretation of it... The real world is there underneath it...lol
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dave
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by dave on Jun 15, 2011 17:07:22 GMT -5
"Get some candles." Are you crazy? I've been married 14 years and already have 2 kids. It's like my wife gets pregnant every time we have sex...
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dave
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by dave on Jun 15, 2011 18:05:16 GMT -5
TRF -
" Look at the same thing until it doesn't look like anything anymore"...
Hmm, kinda like saying a word over and over again until it just becomes a sound?
I've never done that, but I will give it whirl over the next few days!
Thanks.
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Post by heretic on Jun 15, 2011 19:12:48 GMT -5
"Get some candles." Are you crazy? I've been married 14 years and already have 2 kids. It's like my wife gets pregnant every time we have sex... You've only had sex twice in 14 years? Yeah, I suppose I am a little crazy. Sometimes it helps to be a little outrageous, too. It makes it more fun when hanging out with the sages, the people open to possibilities, even the psychotics. You never know where you’ll find the geniuses of our society.
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Post by Portto on Jun 15, 2011 19:23:24 GMT -5
Dave: Have you heard this story?
The Japanese Zen master, Hakuin Ekaku, heard the story about how when Great Master Ganto was killed by bandits (one of Zen’s tragedies), Ganto’s scream was so loud it could be heard for miles.
Hakuin was profoundly distressed by this story. Believing Ganto’s scream was sounded in fear or anguish, Hakuin reasoned to himself, “If even that great master was not free from the fear of death, what hope do I have?” Hajuin was so troubled by this thought that it seemed to become a kind of “organic” koan to him–he could not get it out of his mind.
Some time later he went to a place where there was to be a series of talks. Finding the gathering less than inspiring, Hakuin secluded himself in closet and practiced zazen. Some days later, the sound of a bell from a distant temple cracked him open. Overwhelmed with joy, he jumped up and exclaimed, "Ganto is truly alive and in good health!"
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Post by mamza on Jun 15, 2011 20:00:42 GMT -5
So I had an interesting (in my opinion) day today, and I feel it might fit into this discussion in some way.
Basically I got pissed at my computer games and decided, "Screw that, I'm going outside." Then I spent the rest of the day swimming and playing the bass. After dinner I couldn't think of what to do because I'd done everything I could think of that was interesting other than my computer games, but I was still mad at those. So I took a walk.
At first I was thinking how much it sucked to waste all my time walking up the road with no sidewalk and garbage all over the place. After a mile or so that calmed down a little bit, and I walked into view of an unbelievable orange sunset--and with a little more walking I found a road minus the road in the middle of the woods.
Must've been for people to dump crap they didn't want because I saw a lot of shingling and leaves back there. But anyway, I followed this road that was almost a cave created by trees and found several dirt-bike paths forking out. I took the first fork every time I saw one, and I have no idea why.
Then I heard a deer running. I looked up, and it stopped and looked at me. So we're just sitting there staring at each other for the longest time, and it starts to dawn on me how gigantic this thing is and how easily it could beat the tar out of me. Then bugs started to bother me and I scared the deer off, but as soon as it took off I was after it in hot pursuit. Again, I have no idea why. It was just an immediate reaction.
So I'm hauling ass through the woods after a deer that could easily maim me when a tree steals my glasses, and I progressively started leaving my phone and drink and stuff I'd brought with me until the deer vanished and I had to go back and get it all.
If that's all too long: I went for a walk because I was bored and the universe delivered the most fun I've had in a long, long time as soon as I stopped worrying about fun and boredom.
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dave
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by dave on Jun 15, 2011 21:53:45 GMT -5
Mamza -
That is way cool!
Porto -
Thanks for the inspiration. I might pick up a book on zen stories to help keep me focused...
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waddicalwabbit
Full Member
Let's all go down the wabbit hole
Posts: 125
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Post by waddicalwabbit on Jun 16, 2011 0:37:56 GMT -5
Many of us have experienced a now that 'sucks' or a now that we would prefer be different. I think if you've been on the planet more than a few years, that's true and maybe the tolerance for suckiness grows as you get older and have had bigger sucky experiences. I've had lotsa pain and nausea and even left my body and thought I was going to die a few times alone in a rest area along the side of a freeway where I didn't know anyone for many, many miles. I remember my first experience of turning sucky into ummm...some kind of okness. When I was a kid, we had to eat whatever we were served and all of it. I remember putting previously frozen green peas in my mouth. You know the old commercial kind? Birdseye brand I think it was. They were tasteless, kinda gray, mushy/sandy/dusty. Other than that, they tasted really bad. I wanted to gag, but knew I'd get hit if I did, so I rolled them around in my mouth and mushed them up and consciously created the thought, "What is it that I don't like about these? Let's explore." I found a very different experience in that. The times that I've been passing out, (you know when the room starts to darken and your vision becomes a smaller and smaller hole that you can see out of and you're nauseous and dizzy and scared and in pain?) if I had ANY resistance to it (like 'this sucks) it would just get worse, so I ran the frozen pea trick on it and then even the thought that this might be death was kinda just, well, interesting and pain is just a sensation. Yeah, I have a preference about it and I was sure riding it out, but I wasn't unhappy with it. Me a whackjob, huh? Oh. Loved your joke about sex twice in 14 years, Dave. Very cool. :-)
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Post by heretic on Jun 16, 2011 8:12:51 GMT -5
So I had an interesting (in my opinion) day today, and I feel it might fit into this discussion in some way. Basically I got pissed at my computer games and decided, "Screw that, I'm going outside." Then I spent the rest of the day swimming and playing the bass. After dinner I couldn't think of what to do because I'd done everything I could think of that was interesting other than my computer games, but I was still mad at those. So I took a walk. mamza What stylings do you express when hanging out with the bass? Improv-jazz, blues, rock? I'm asking because I've recently started playing the blues harp again, off and on, with a friend's band and I have always keyed off the bass-line when playing. There is just something primordial about the sound of a bass when it's thumping and grinding, especially when playing blues. It feels like a guttural slang, snaking obscenely through the drummer's backbeat within a twelve-bar's nosedive into a festering swamp of confession. My favorite bass player is, Mel Schacher, who was with the original Grand Funk band when they were a trio back in the 60's. We've recently started working on one of their tunes- Inside Looking Out. Funky, funky, and nasty, and it's finally starting to come alive. I defy anyone in the room to sit still when we unveil it! Keep on kickin' it, mamza!
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