dave
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by dave on Jun 14, 2011 8:48:34 GMT -5
So much talk about being in the 'Now', and how that is the key... Well, what if Now sucks? Like being tortured? (Oh, and hello, it's been a while, but I come to this site now and then and haven't seen this addressed, so thought I'd ask!)
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Post by therealfake on Jun 14, 2011 9:58:43 GMT -5
Hi Dave, Welcome back... What if it sucks? Hmmm Maybe I'd try it and experience it for myself... Better to eat off of your own plate than somebody else's...
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Post by zendancer on Jun 14, 2011 10:17:10 GMT -5
So much talk about being in the 'Now', and how that is the key... Well, what if Now sucks? Like being tortured? (Oh, and hello, it's been a while, but I come to this site now and then and haven't seen this addressed, so thought I'd ask!) I'm tempted to ask if you're being tortured right now, but I guess I'll play this straight. If you're being tortured, then "Aaiiieeee!" Pain is pain. Jesus understood the truth, but being nailed to a cross wasn't any fun. Al Hallaj, a sufi mystic, was executed by having molten lead poured in his ear because, like Jesus, he said, "I am the truth." I'm sure that that wasn't pleasant either. There is no escape from having a human body. Ramana and Nis both died of cancer. Achaan Chah had a stroke and spent years in a wheelchair. No matter how enlightened you become, you can still break a leg, get involved in a car wreck, suffer congestive heart failure, or get blown up by a suicide bomber. The reason that if helps to die (see through the illusion of selfhood) before dying is that death will not be seen as an enemy. The body will die, but who you are cannot die. To realize this changes one's perspective dramatically.
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dave
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by dave on Jun 14, 2011 12:08:18 GMT -5
The Part II of this question, I suppose, then is 'why'.
Why would this 'This' do this to 'Itself'?
Yeah, I know, 'itself' is a mind-generated illusion, etc... but still, why would 'This' even allow for the possibility of the illusion of pain and suffering? What would be the point?
I guess I'm thinking of the ending in the movie 'Brazil' where you think the guy got away, but find out he's just escaped into his own fantasy to escape his suffering.
Changing the channel sometimes seems like a real viable option to me, I guess.
And what if 'Now' is just plain-*ss boring? I mean, I don't know, but ZD, et al, can make the whole enlightenment thing sound about exciting as watching fishing on cable...
And if 'Now' is all that and a bag of chips, then what purpose imagination and the excitement it can generate?
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Post by mamza on Jun 14, 2011 12:26:34 GMT -5
What does anything mean, really? This is something better seen for yourself, but nothing is really required to have meaning. We assume things have meaning because they happen and affect other things, but the things we interpret them to mean are simply interpretations.
This also applies to why. Why things happen is a total mystery. Often times there are apparent reasons or causes why something might or might not happen, but what causes those things to happen?
But if now is boring, I suggest doing something interesting. Sometimes that's not possible, though--you can't bring a hula hoop in to court and expect the judge to listen to you. In cases like this, the only thing you can do is deal with it and march on. Boring will pass, it always does.
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Post by therealfake on Jun 14, 2011 12:28:00 GMT -5
Heheh, well of course the now is boring to the 'mind' and don't forget it...lol It would much rather you focus your attention on it, forget about that 'now' B.S. and live the exciting imaginary world of 'mind'... Sooner or later you'll have to make a choice, the conceptual world of the mind or the non conceptual world of no mind, and the truth. You can sit on the fence your whole life listening to the whisperings of the mind and that's Ok, most peeps do... It takes courage to penetrate the truth and it's sometimes easier if one has nothing to lose... Maybe you have too much to lose...
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dave
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by dave on Jun 14, 2011 13:07:40 GMT -5
"Sooner or later you'll have to make a choice..."
Unfortunately, I think that time has passed.
I feel like I've already gone past the halfway point and all I'm doing now with any of this posting and wondering and hemming and hawing is leaving futile claw marks in the wood as I slide further and further down into - I don't know what...
Honestly, I feel more sad than anything, I guess.
It's like learning how a magic trick works - it takes all the magic out. Worse, I think, 'enlightenment' will take the magic out of everything.
I have 2 boys, one 5 and the other 14 and they seem a good representation of that slide.
I can make my 5 year old's face light up with tales of the fantastic and outlandish but my 14 year old is like, 'whatever, Dad. Can you try to be a little less, gee, I don't know, juvenile?'.
And yet. And yet - I read all the first hand accounts from people like ZD who have been to that 'Undiscovered Country' and seems like it might not be so bad, might even be enjoyable. Not the ramblings of mad men, but hints at.... Something. Something very real - and I can't stop myself from wanting to peek up the magician's sleeve to see for myself, risking the ending of all illusion and maybe, all the fun...
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Post by mamza on Jun 14, 2011 13:36:25 GMT -5
I haven't had any sadness about any of this, but I can say that I've seen up the sleeve once or twice and it is absolutely magnificent.
To maybe give you a different perspective, think of it like this:
There's all this 'magic' out there in the world, and it's happening all the time. There are miracles and coincidences, and even the little magician shops you buy toys for your kids at. Now of all this magic out there, you're only seeing a tiny portion of it--the parts that jive with your idea of what is good magic.
Now if you were to take yourself out of the equation, what would be left? A world full of magical things and nobody left to say, "This would make me look bad, that won't do" or "No, that one's too simple." It may SEEM like the magic is dying away, but that's just because your personal ideas of what is magical/wonderous/positive are disappearing. Just keep in mind that your ideas of boring/terrible/negative are too.
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dave
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by dave on Jun 14, 2011 14:11:54 GMT -5
Mamza - You may be right. In fact, I'm afraid you probably are... But I (and probably most everybody else on this board) have spent so long finding chinks in so many armors and holes in so many defenses that I'm completely at a loss as what to do when finally arriving 'here' - at what to all appearances seems to be 'The Really, Real Truth.' There's something in the writings of Nis and Sailor Bob and ZD and Howard Vernon and Bernadette Peters, et al that just seems solid, incontrovertible, impervious to further dissection... What do you do when you come to the door step of what you've been searching for for so long? Too chickenshi*t to go through, but you know you can't just turn around and pretend you never saw the place... This 'truly' sucks.
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Post by mamza on Jun 14, 2011 14:25:17 GMT -5
Then in the words of ZD: Too much thinking! Put it all down. Hahaha.
Just do whatever you're doing. When hungry, eat. When funny, laugh. All of those fears are in your head! So just get out of your head.
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astarxy
Junior Member
Live and let live
Posts: 54
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Post by astarxy on Jun 14, 2011 14:26:42 GMT -5
well, if it all would be sunny and shiny we wouldn't ever drop a tear or write forums like this or.. but life does tap you on shoulder if not being true to yourself, which is really not your guilt... generations had been brought up not knowing their true selfs... anyway, we all have a sad story, or two. just forget it. i doubt each and single minute of a day is a pain... hang to the good feelings... seek your answers... your Now and what comes after it depends completely on you... like trf nicely put, got too much to lose? be well.
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Post by klaus on Jun 14, 2011 14:44:57 GMT -5
dave,
"why would 'This' do this to 'Itself'
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Post by klaus on Jun 14, 2011 14:56:43 GMT -5
what would you have 'It' do?
'It' does it because it can.
no rhyme or reason, no way out.
what do you do when you come to the door step?
you laugh your ass off!
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Post by therealfake on Jun 14, 2011 15:06:49 GMT -5
"Sooner or later you'll have to make a choice..." Unfortunately, I think that time has passed. I feel like I've already gone past the halfway point and all I'm doing now with any of this posting and wondering and hemming and hawing is leaving futile claw marks in the wood as I slide further and further down into - I don't know what... Yes, don't know what... Nobody knows what... Truth cannot be an acquisition of the mind... Do you believe that truth is a far off cryptic world of la la land?...lol It's here, your already home, you've never left. But it can only be seen and felt from deep within the stillness of a 'mindless' body. Look at the world, with the eyes, ears and feelings of the body... without the chatter of the mind. When I say it's right in front of you, I mean it's right in front of you... Look at it...
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astarxy
Junior Member
Live and let live
Posts: 54
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Post by astarxy on Jun 14, 2011 15:23:40 GMT -5
what a nice reply. i truly mean it. well said...*
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