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Post by elenaluz on Apr 18, 2011 11:40:09 GMT -5
I've been following along with some of these threads and occasionally have gotten a bit of wisdom at exactly the right moment, and for that I am grateful. Mostly, though, the postings here elude me...I feel as though the process I am in, from which there truly is no "turning back" is squeezing me so hard that it's all I can do to just get through the next moment. This "waking up " business is just really, really hard for me right now, and I am not reading much about others' experience of their difficulties. From my perspective, which is, admittedly, extremely limited, there IS alot of posturing, arguing, pissing, taking the piss, etc. on this discussion board and I'm not finding any of that useful right now. Maybe when I get on the other side of this process (oy, words really do fail here) I'll find the wisdom and humor as many of you do. Meanwhile, I follow what shows up, like ZD's book, which is very helpful, and Suzanne Segal's book, and a few others' experiences. Is there anyone out there, right now, who is feeling like they are trapped in a room whose walls are closing in, imperceptibly, every day? If so, I'd like to hear some about this. I DO trust this process I am in - it has brought me this far, but right now the despair that I will NEVER get through this trance-state is threatening to swamp the little boat I am navigating in...Thanks for listening.
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Post by ivory on Apr 18, 2011 13:48:21 GMT -5
I feel as though the process I am in, from which there truly is no "turning back" is squeezing me so hard that it's all I can do to just get through the next moment. This "waking up " business is just really, really hard for me right now, and I am not reading much about others' experience of their difficulties…Is there anyone out there, right now, who is feeling like they are trapped in a room whose walls are closing in, imperceptibly, every day? You didn't describe what it is that you're experiencing, so I can only guess what you mean by the "walls are closing in." But yes, the process for me has been anything but fun. I don't know if I've always been this emotional or if I'm simply more aware of thoughts and emotion now. But it feels like a storm has broken out inside of me. It's not uncommon for my emotions to fluctuate from anxiety, anger, loneliness, fear, frustration, and confusion in the course of an hour. It's extremely unpleasant and all I can do is sit, observe, and wait it out. Am I awakening? I have no idea, and that's the scary part. I sometimes fear that I've lost my mind and that this could go on forever. I try not to think about it or look too far ahead, but that can be rather difficult to do. Then there's the falling away of interest and will. It seems that I'm no longer able to bond with "normal" people, including my family. As a result, this process has become terribly lonely. And like you said, I feel that there's no turning back. Then there's fear. Fear is all over the place as well. Sometimes it manifests as anxiety and worry, but those emotions seems to be amplified. Then there are deeper, more profound fears (sometimes experienced as sheer terror): fear of the unknown, fear of no-self, fear of death, fear of Truth. I'm at a place now where I feel like I'm stuck. I have no desire to go back to who I was (nor do I think it's possible), but at the same time pushing forward doesn't look very promising for the "me". There's no doubt about it, this shit takes courage. From my perspective, which is, admittedly, extremely limited, there IS alot of posturing, arguing, pissing, taking the piss, etc. on this discussion board and I'm not finding any of that useful right now. It may or not be the case for you, but I find that these pissing contests often expose pieces of me that need to be looked at or investigated.
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Post by souley on Apr 18, 2011 14:41:23 GMT -5
Haha! Ivory your experience is so similar to mine its actually funny. I feel like I'm closer to the end now then ever, but then I have learned not to trust this as I have had thoughts like that many times now. I think the process is pretty much one-way so that is obviously true, but you know what I mean. But there is just so much crap to go through it seems like it's never ending. I can totally relate to the feeling of being stuck. Sometimes I get so frustrated that I'm still this miserable idiot trying to make something happen, while there is a conceptual understanding that there is no separate being. It feels ridiculous and has been going on for over two years now (since the real terror started). But there is always more things falling away. Some experience will teach me something new (in other words, crap will happen and show my resistances) before I know it. And then I have to once again go around and suffer until I let that go again. It's funny how your posts have been very clear, as I feel that mine can be from time to time, but we're still stuck in the middle of this insane and frustrating process. Ever clearer.. but there are always more issues. I find that the fear of insanity is the same fear that we're experiencing all the time through the process. Observe the fear before it takes over your mind with ideas like that. For me handling the fear has been the hardest thing ever. It has come to the point where I just automatically handle it pretty OK, giving in to the fear is just so painful that its becoming less and less of an option. This is mainly when there is a lot of fear, it seems the hardest part is when there is just a small undercurrent of fear, it can really put me into bad mindsets without me noticing. I feel less lonely now then I was a year ago.. there is less me to be lonely, and stuff like this forum helps a lot. Its funny since physically I'm more lonely then ever, but I'm very close with my family and my girl even though I can't share this process with them. elenaluz: I get sick of this board often. Sometimes it feels like its all conceptual BS that cant help me understand anything. Michaelsees even commented on my comes and goes nature in his famous goodbye post I think it's OK and probably right to feel that way, the truth can't be put into words so words will always fail you. But there is a lot of value in it as well when we are in the right mood. Like ivory I would like to hear more about your walls closing in.. there is a lot to go through in this.
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Post by ivory on Apr 18, 2011 15:22:26 GMT -5
Yeah souley. I've yet to meet another besides you who's experience has been this freaking rough. I feel for you, but it is nice to know that this crap isn't entirely uncommon. You seem to have been at this a while, while my introduction to non-duality was only about 7 months ago. I've only just begun to realize what this was all about. Regarding loneliness, I recently discovered that one of my primary motivations in life was avoiding being alone. My whole life force has been invested in avoiding exactly this. I don't know what I have to do to overcome this fear, or if it's even possible. But I do know that there is no dancing around it, avoiding it, or pretending it's not there. It's surely not going to go away on it's own. Surrendering to it and embracing seems the only way to deal with it. At least in my case the fear of insanity is the mind freaking out because it realizes there's no person in control of thought like it always thought it was. Of course, there's also the mind's desire to KNOW. Some of the freak outs have been because the mind has realized it can't know. Surrendering knowledge and the illusion of control is not the mind's idea of a good time.
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Post by souley on Apr 18, 2011 16:01:39 GMT -5
I read the power of now and got totally hooked, then after about 6-7 months of pretty intense "awareness practice" I just fell apart. It was terrifying and just to be clear I was very afraid that I was going insane, so really feel you there. The world as I knew it fell apart, everything was a lie. Yet I could not put a word to what had happened. This is what realization is - you cant say anything about it because it is just less, never more. There was always some part of me that knew I wasn't going insane, that idea is just another way of trying to find an explanation for _______.
Surrendering to your loneliness seems like death to some subconscious part of you. It will take time to process that fear, at least in my experience. It is really about giving up control. The unconscious story seems to always be that if I surrender to this fear of loneliness, I might be alone forever! See how thats some kind of double hook? Oh my oh my...
On the other hand I always come back to that this seems to be a process that is almost chemical/physical/energetic or what were supposed to call it. Consciousness slowly breaks free from the mind and the body, and both the body and the mind has to adjust to it step by step. The purgation seems to be something like growing pains. For me this seems to imply that it takes time. I have this idea that if I was just good enough, brave enough, I could surrender on the spot and everything would be all right. But I think in reality it simply takes a good while to adjust. Creating more time like that is a bit counter productive though since it's all about now, but I can't really reconcile that just yet:D
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Post by enigma on Apr 18, 2011 16:20:11 GMT -5
I can identify with all of that, and a lot of compassion comes up for me now, but you guys already know the score. Yes, a lot of courage is required and there wasn't much mention of that on the spiritual path sign-up sheet.
I call it purification, where every fear, some of which has been buried for decades under more dominant fears, comes up spontaneously and plays itself out. Playing itself out isn't enough if we aren't willing to let it go, and if we ARE, it's done now. There's isn't some kind of requirement to go through years of that. The hanging on is what makes it hang on, and yet willingness can't be manufactured at will.
When the burden gets too heavy, we put it down. That's really all it is, and cultivating trust was a major focus for me. The painter of the pictures will catch you if you fall. To know that this is true, we actually have to let go.
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Post by elenaluz on Apr 18, 2011 16:37:36 GMT -5
Ivory, Souley, than you both so much. You each described MY journey, over "here" - Were I further along I'd be able to truthfully put an "LOL" after that word, "here" - but at this moment I am thoroughly mucked up in the dreamstate. I watch myself, again and again and again, rise and fall, into and out of attachment, at one moment able to clearly experience the perfection of ALL, and then, for no apparent reason, triggered by I don't know what, I am falling into old mental patterns that torture me. I torture me! There is much loneliness here then. And isolation. I have watched in horror as nearly all interest in activities that used to be so meaningful to me just falls away, including simple outings with friends. When among a group of people I often find myself having an almost allergic reaction to the conversations, the very atmosphere of social intercourse. I am perilously close to avoiding my own beloved daughter because her life seems so empty to me and mine too inexplicable to explain to her! I feel cast apart from all that is/was familiar and bobbing about in some mighty vicious sea. I appreciate the lulls, the moments, or even hours or days, even, when the sun bursts through the darkness and I can just BE, but just BEING with the really ugly stuff my mind can churn up is very, very difficult just now. I've been working with this stuff pretty intensely for the past three years, with a 5 year lead-up to that, so I'm beginning to feel as though I am the world's slowest "seeker." And I've come way too far to turn back, so at this point there is nothing but "water, water, everywhere." And a leaky boat. No lifejacket. And I'm a crap swimmer. That's "me" today, anyway.
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Post by elenaluz on Apr 18, 2011 16:43:03 GMT -5
Yes Enigma! "Willingness can't be manufactured at will!" That's it, right there! I KNOW that it is my own belief in the thoughts that makes them stick and keeps me in the muck, but have NO IDEA how I am able to let them slide on by sometimes and not others. It ALL seems beyond my control, and yet there's a lie in there. I can feel it. I just can't explain it. Maybe I become too attached to the freedom when it arises and THAT sets up the fall...I DO have the experience of being "caught" when I fall, and yet...and yet...I continue to return to the old habit of mucking about in the lies I tell myself.
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Post by ivory on Apr 18, 2011 16:46:38 GMT -5
Yes, a lot of courage is required and there wasn't much mention of that on the spiritual path sign-up sheet. LOL, nope. I just thought that being enlightened had a nice ring to it. I was soooo looking forward to this...
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Post by enigma on Apr 18, 2011 18:22:48 GMT -5
Yes Enigma! "Willingness can't be manufactured at will!" That's it, right there! I KNOW that it is my own belief in the thoughts that makes them stick and keeps me in the muck, but have NO IDEA how I am able to let them slide on by sometimes and not others. It ALL seems beyond my control, and yet there's a lie in there. I can feel it. I just can't explain it. Maybe I become too attached to the freedom when it arises and THAT sets up the fall...I DO have the experience of being "caught" when I fall, and yet...and yet...I continue to return to the old habit of mucking about in the lies I tell myself. I really think this situation is extremely common for 'serious' spiritual folks. It doesn't sound like the brochure (or the cartoon above) so some folks don't like to talk about it. I appreciate the 'willingness' here. I think I do have an idea of what's going on here but it's extremely difficult to talk about. To understand why the mind comes up to disturb Peace, it has to be seen that nobody actually wants Peace. That which 'we' actually are already IS Peace and it's not a thinking thing that desires anything at all. What you are isn't confused or in need or trying to avoid anything. This is the meaning of the innocence I keep talking about. When this innocence touches mind, attention is pulled to wherever the mind goes, and mind is a bunch of conditioned ideas that also has no interest in Peace beyond it's idea of peace. It can't form such an interest in something that does not include it. Peace is empty of all 'mind objects' and while mind will enjoy it for a time, mind cannot own it or even be a partner. Through mind, the interest in whatever it perceives as Peace soon fades, and attention goes toward the interests of mind, which is whatever has the most 'energetic pull' in the conditioning. For the seeker who has lost interest in most superficial entertainment, this is usually a fear. The belief is that the fear can be fixed and happiness will result. (Interest doesn't mean desire, it just means a pull to engage.) Oddly, perhaps, it can be very helpful to notice that happiness is impossible, and this might result in the abandoning of all attempts to be happy. While this is highly counter-intuitive and actually goes contrary to the whole purpose for doing anything, abandoning the attempt to be happy is identical to the ending of the search. This places you naked and helpless as an abandoned baby on the doorstep of the gateless gate.
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Post by souley on Apr 18, 2011 18:43:58 GMT -5
Haha! I just the other day was so brutally fed up with trying to be happy, or OK, that I walked around all day just being in a total piss mood. I was like, being happy doesn't work for shit, thats all a lie, I'm gonna take this sunny day and just throw it away because whatever I do doesn't matter anyway. After a while I got pretty joyous and couldn't care so much about being upset anymore, and I was like, what happened, I'm supposed to be upset here!! Turns out I can't even be upset when I want to, and I can't be happy when I want to. Aaa the freedom hehehe
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Post by enigma on Apr 18, 2011 20:41:25 GMT -5
Yeah, the ultimate slap in the face is we can't even keep ourselves unhappy for long. The struggle becomes too much and we have to surrender and be happy for a while. Hehe.
The search for happiness produces the same result as the search for unhappiness. A very useful experience/realization.
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bruppy
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by bruppy on Apr 20, 2011 3:57:27 GMT -5
I've been following along with some of these threads and occasionally have gotten a bit of wisdom at exactly the right moment, and for that I am grateful. Mostly, though, the postings here elude me...I feel as though the process I am in, from which there truly is no "turning back" is squeezing me so hard that it's all I can do to just get through the next moment. This "waking up " business is just really, really hard for me right now, and I am not reading much about others' experience of their difficulties. From my perspective, which is, admittedly, extremely limited, there IS alot of posturing, arguing, pissing, taking the piss, etc. on this discussion board and I'm not finding any of that useful right now. Maybe when I get on the other side of this process (oy, words really do fail here) I'll find the wisdom and humor as many of you do. Meanwhile, I follow what shows up, like ZD's book, which is very helpful, and Suzanne Segal's book, and a few others' experiences. Is there anyone out there, right now, who is feeling like they are trapped in a room whose walls are closing in, imperceptibly, every day? If so, I'd like to hear some about this. I DO trust this process I am in - it has brought me this far, but right now the despair that I will NEVER get through this trance-state is threatening to swamp the little boat I am navigating in...Thanks for listening. have you noticed that when you feel you need someone the most, you usually dont get that something you think you need. I got a DIE once, when i was going through one of the many terror attacks of feeling I was about to die. Best news I got I feel. Hope this doesn't do you any service hahahahaahaaah
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 9:20:39 GMT -5
elenaluz, i've dealt with loneliness some too, or i should say i've got tied up in knots not dealing with it, or maybe i've dealt with it by getting tied up in knots. anyhoo, it can be a real bummer. maybe this will help? FINDING CONNECTION IN LONELINESS
Q: I'm learning to look deeply at my loneliness now and sit with it. That's very helpful. Yet, the loneliness comes up when I want to connect with others. Maybe because of a certain energy, because of karmas, because someone is judging me, or for some other reason, I feel there's a lack of connection with others.
A: Maybe I can add a bit of insight into the last thing you mentioned, which is the lack of a sense of connection. We are so deeply conditioned to look for connection (and everything else) on the outside. We want others to act or speak a certain way so that we will feel connected with them, when in fact, the place where we are connected with others is deep within ourselves. Being connected to our own Being is where the connection lies, and that connection is available even when someone is judging or rejecting us.
When someone likes us and responds positively to us, we are able to relax and just be ourselves around them. This naturalness allows us to connect with our own Being. The sense of connection you long for comes from being connected to your true nature. That is always where the sense of connection comes from, even when it seems like we need others to love and approve of us to feel that connection. It's just easier to feel connected when others respond positively to us because it allow us to relax and feel our own connection with Source.
This feeling of a lack of connection is a fruitful area for inquiry. Who knows what you might find if you become curious about this sense of a lack of connection. Where is the lack felt in your body? What is present in the empty space where connection seems lacking? While you never know what you'll discover when you inquire into a sense of lack, often you find the very thing you thought you were lacking! What a surprise to discover that the empty space inside you is itself connected to everyone and everything! that's from Nirmala's That is That which can be found for free here: endless-satsang.com/thatisthat.htmmax
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 9:25:29 GMT -5
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