I "know" the truth... maybe

[alpha]

Mar 20, 2011 12:12:24 GMT -5 loverofall said:

We all have different personalities and patterns. Mediation for an overthinker like me really makes changes happen. Its never fun because the mind wants to go off into imagination. I have very good mind and it really likes to go down roads. I don't view it as a path to enlightenment but it definitely weakens my thinking patterns.

I get headaches all the time when I meditate. The mind really doesn't like it so for me it is beneficial in many ways.

I know its not going to be "fun" In matter fact I now step back and watch the resistance and irritation and open to that.

Change is the key. Keep changing patterns. The mind doesn't like change because it is risky.

might be helpful to give some of these a try, I realize they would not suit everyone though...
www.eocinstitute.org/?gclid=COiht-2D3qcCFYsSfAodcUIY_g

www.project-meditation.org/a_ra1/holosyncdr.html?gclid=CKnD0oqD3qcCFYsSfAodcUIY_g

[teknix]

Best bet is probably to just focus on your breathing.

Count to six as your breathing in hold for 1 sec or 2 and then count to 12 as you breathe out.

Just find a rhythem that is comfortable, generally in faster out slower.

Then maybe just try to look at the color you see when your eyes are closed.

Dark quiet room may also be helpful.

Here is a good link.

www.how-to-meditate.org/breathing-meditations.htm/

[teknix]

You can do it dreamer!

[dreamerrach]

Mind's impressed with thoughts and imagination and doesn't appreciate being told to shut up. My aunt suggested I try something like coloring to help still my mind. Duh, why haven't I tried meditating after a long painting session? Generally thoughts cease while I'm painting--it's all just visuals and motion and texture... Does that count as quasi-meditation?

[enigma]

Okay, so, like, here's the difficulty as I see it. There's only one imaginary identity, and it wants to think. When it also wants to not think, an internal conflict is set up that wasn't there before. My 'spiritual philosophy' has always been that internal conflict is part of the problem and so is not a good solution. Hencely, practices that set up an internal conflict were avoided. I went in the direction of questioning why 'I' wanted to think instead, and this clearly revealed the function of distraction, avoidance, sustaining the identity, problem creation, drama creation, absurd and pointless storytelling and suffering. The more this became clear, the less thinking happened, and at some point I found myself in a rather continuous, spontaneous and effortless 'walking meditation'.

[dreamerrach]

So I should keep chasing my tail until I catch it? Or better yet consume it...

[teknix]

Only you can decide that

[Deleted]

Mar 20, 2011 18:12:19 GMT -5 enigma said:

Okay, so, like, here's the difficulty as I see it. There's only one imaginary identity, and it wants to think. When it also wants to not think, an internal conflict is set up that wasn't there before. My 'spiritual philosophy' has always been that internal conflict is part of the problem and so is not a good solution. Hencely, practices that set up an internal conflict were avoided. I went in the direction of questioning why 'I' wanted to think instead, and this clearly revealed the function of distraction, avoidance, sustaining the identity, problem creation, drama creation, absurd and pointless storytelling and suffering. The more this became clear, the less thinking happened, and at some point I found myself in a rather continuous, spontaneous and effortless 'walking meditation'.

isn't questioning why 'I' want to think just an example of uber-thinking?? turtles all the way down?

thinking as the antidote to thinking -- sort of like snake venom for the snake bite...

when i think right now why do i think, or why do i express thoughts here right now....i'm thinking that it has something to do with my ego, internal drama, wanting to show some clever language flair or somesuch...but also wanting to show some sort of thought process so as to be picked apart by those in walking meditation so as to kill the process eventually. perhaps there's some idleness there too; procrastination (there's a ton of stuff to do around here). searching for reasons....testing, looking, trying out a new concept.

E, could you expand on that some more? anyone?

[Deleted]

dreamer,

the meditation i use when my mind is uber-active is similar to what tek pointed too as well -- i count breaths, paying attention to the subtle ever-changing sensations of the breath going in and out the nostrils -- especially the point of the nostrils just at the opening. accompanying the sensations is the internal counting narrative -- 'in-one,' 'out-one,' 'in-two,' 'out-two.' when (and if!) i get to ten i turn around and come back down to one. if i fail at any point and get distracted i gently and non-judgingly start over. not a big deal.

if i can do a whole up to ten and back down then i move on to something more like Zendancer's attending the actual. just be with a sensation (like hearing) and get totally absorbed in it.


these two things -- attending the actual and some sort of self-inquiry -- seem extremely devastating to this old habitual mindf*ck. [and by the way, the whole 'there is no you' realization can only help with this, IMO. my guess is you are starting out with meditation with a huge advantage.]

but basically i don't know a dang thing. looking under rocks.

[dreamerrach]

Find anything? Sometimes you need help to look under a rock...



But sometimes not

[dreamerrach]

Thank you everyone for your help. Am trying variety of things; something's gotta work, right?

[Deleted]

i could very literally be the bloke in that pic holding the rock, pasty legs and all. that's me.

[enigma]

Mar 20, 2011 18:42:30 GMT -5 @dreamerrach said:

So I should keep chasing my tail until I catch it? Or better yet consume it...

No, my suggestion was to stop the tail chasing by noticing the tail is connected to your own butt and consider whether this activity is clever or foolish. (hehe)

[enigma]

Mar 20, 2011 19:07:47 GMT -5 maxdprophet said:

Mar 20, 2011 18:12:19 GMT -5 enigma said:

Okay, so, like, here's the difficulty as I see it. There's only one imaginary identity, and it wants to think. When it also wants to not think, an internal conflict is set up that wasn't there before. My 'spiritual philosophy' has always been that internal conflict is part of the problem and so is not a good solution. Hencely, practices that set up an internal conflict were avoided. I went in the direction of questioning why 'I' wanted to think instead, and this clearly revealed the function of distraction, avoidance, sustaining the identity, problem creation, drama creation, absurd and pointless storytelling and suffering. The more this became clear, the less thinking happened, and at some point I found myself in a rather continuous, spontaneous and effortless 'walking meditation'.

isn't questioning why 'I' want to think just an example of uber-thinking?? turtles all the way down?

thinking as the antidote to thinking -- sort of like snake venom for the snake bite...

when i think right now why do i think, or why do i express thoughts here right now....i'm thinking that it has something to do with my ego, internal drama, wanting to show some clever language flair or somesuch...but also wanting to show some sort of thought process so as to be picked apart by those in walking meditation so as to kill the process eventually. perhaps there's some idleness there too; procrastination (there's a ton of stuff to do around here). searching for reasons....testing, looking, trying out a new concept.

E, could you expand on that some more? anyone?

It CAN be an uber-turtle thingy if there's just thinking about thinking and no looking. It becomes a process of recirculating what you already think you know. Useful contemplation is an intuitive looking while the thinking process is on pause. I've always been a philosopher at heart, though not an intellectual, and so maybe it comes naturally for me.

Ultimately, it's a process of becoming conscious. When you're aware of your less than integrous motivations, you may be inclined to stop. When you're aware of your projections, they cease by themselves. When you're aware that you think, not because you are somehow compelled to think, but because you want to, the whole game of trying to stop thinking looks silly and collapses. When you're aware that 80% of your thoughts are banal, repetitive, pointless and absurd, then you may seriously lose interest in them and they simply won't happen anymore.

[enigma]

Mar 20, 2011 19:19:50 GMT -5 maxdprophet said:

dreamer,

the meditation i use when my mind is uber-active is similar to what tek pointed too as well -- i count breaths, paying attention to the subtle ever-changing sensations of the breath going in and out the nostrils -- especially the point of the nostrils just at the opening. accompanying the sensations is the internal counting narrative -- 'in-one,' 'out-one,' 'in-two,' 'out-two.' when (and if!) i get to ten i turn around and come back down to one. if i fail at any point and get distracted i gently and non-judgingly start over. not a big deal.

if i can do a whole up to ten and back down then i move on to something more like Zendancer's attending the actual. just be with a sensation (like hearing) and get totally absorbed in it.


these two things -- attending the actual and some sort of self-inquiry -- seem extremely devastating to this old habitual mindf*ck. [and by the way, the whole 'there is no you' realization can only help with this, IMO. my guess is you are starting out with meditation with a huge advantage.]

but basically i don't know a dang thing. looking under rocks.

If a child won't stop talking, you give him some taffy or something else to keep his mouth busy, but if that's your only solution you're going to need a lot of taffy.