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Post by dreamerrach on Mar 19, 2011 8:27:52 GMT -5
This will probably be lengthy; feel free to skim over or skip entirely.
What is the difference between knowing and embodying? Does one aid the other, is one necessary for the next, as in steps on a staircase? It seems that I can know various things to be true, but it's like a surface level knowing. It doesn't "grab hold" or something. I know that I am a fiction; everything I have created about myself was in reaction to what was happening. I know that what I truly am is a manifestation of what is, the divine (not so good with words on this--generally there are lots of images when I consider this; hard to verbalize those). But it all seems rather hollow and shallow.
I have so many questions and do not know how to phrase most of them.
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Post by sharon on Mar 19, 2011 8:39:14 GMT -5
What question would an 8 year old you, ask, your best friends trusted, open and loving grandfather? ... you can choose which indigenous race your friend was born into ...
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Post by zendancer on Mar 19, 2011 9:01:44 GMT -5
Yes, intellectual knowing IS surface level knowing. The path to truth is the path to Being. It is often called "non-abiding" or "non-abidance in the mind. The mind can be thought of as a separator. When we abide in mind, we feel separated from reality. It is an artificial separation, but it feels real. When we grow up no one tells us anything about body-knowing, and yet we "know" many things through the body. The body is vastly more intelligent than the mind (because it is unified with the intelligence of the Absolute), but after we are trapped in the mind, we come to believe that there is only one way of knowing--through abstractions. Only by shifting attention away from thoughts to the actual can we escape the prison of the mind. The more time we spend interacting with the actual the faster we leave the confines of mind and discover our True Self. Only by dying to the known (mind-knowing) does the sense of separation finally end.
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Post by willy10 on Mar 19, 2011 16:19:39 GMT -5
This is a very good post ZD. Not sure if many knows this but this was the original intention for hatha yoga. The external benefits were good health, flexibility, longer life etc but that was not the primary use. It was to sink into the absolute through the body(yoga=mere into the Divine). When you do yoga for a while you find many points of pure stillness, the mind is shut off and these points become access points to the absolute. As I said there are many ways to awaken and by far the most difficult is self-inquiry. It takes a very intelligent mind to wake up this way since you are using the mind against itself to awaken. I predict it will not be long until someone finds a way to awaken in a short time for everyone. There are some that are working on this. Until then I have to agree the body is much more intelligent than the mind and imo it's a much quicker way to wake up than the Janni path unless you have the unique brain/mind to use which most do not.
Michael
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Post by dreamerrach on Mar 19, 2011 16:40:21 GMT -5
Sharon, umm I have no idea what 8 year old me would ask... Don't care at all what race he'd be. Hmm, let's see, at 8 years old, I was hyper-religious, so I probably would have inquired about his thoughts on god.
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Post by dreamerrach on Mar 19, 2011 17:20:07 GMT -5
My thoughts have rarely been stilled. Too often I've become utterly lost in the mind. I'm not even sure what you mean by body-knowing, nor have I heard of the Janni path. Meditation? Terrible. Thoughts just keep streaming, unbidden. Turn off already!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2011 17:37:12 GMT -5
i think that's one of the points of meditation --- with practice the monkeymind gets calmer, and also you begin to recognize that it's not all monkey mind; there is space and stillness there. it might be worth looking into. can't hurt that's for sure.
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Post by dreamerrach on Mar 19, 2011 18:06:48 GMT -5
Tips for meditation? I have seriously tried so many times in the past. All failure...
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Post by sharon on Mar 19, 2011 18:39:21 GMT -5
And so the grandfather sits silently awhile, fondly smiling at his young friends' question ... a bird sings from a tree behind them, it's voice vibrating through the young girls chest ~ her mouth moves to gasp and drink of herself ~ and her question breathes away with the breeze ...
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Post by willy10 on Mar 19, 2011 20:58:14 GMT -5
Tips for meditation? I have seriously tried so many times in the past. All failure... Failure" What would you call a success for your meditation? You cannot fail if you don't know what a success would look like. I found what works well with beginners as well with longtime mediators is to simply sit with your back straight but be comfortable and keep your eyes half shut and here's the most important part do nothing, just be still and do nothing not even watching your breathing just do nothing. When any thoughts come just acknowledge the thought like oh there's a thought and let it pass so you can keep doing nothing. You cannot fail with this because you are not doing anything. It's easy to do this and after a while you may see something like a gap between the space your are in the do nothing and a thought. If you keep with this you will find that the gap becomes much larger and when a thought comes you will immediately see it as a intrusion into your do nothing space. Then after sometime you sit and feel at home in your do nothing space and find that seldom does any thoughts come to you. It's like the do nothing space has become so powerful that thoughts just bounce off it. When you are now rooted firmly in the do nothing space and no thoughts are there your only job is to watch but not like you are watching for anything you just watch . My experience after you do this for a while it becomes really easy. It takes sometime at first just to see a gap between doing nothing and the thoughts, then it takes time to move into the space of do nothing and no thoughts but after doing this for sometime you will find that you can at anytime you want enter the space of do nothing wit no thoughts in a matter of seconds and you are there. Well that's how I did it and how I do my meditations, plus it really feels great when you can access and enter your do nothing space at will. Michael
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Post by zendancer on Mar 20, 2011 8:59:30 GMT -5
And so the grandfather sits silently awhile, fondly smiling at his young friends' question ... a bird sings from a tree behind them, it's voice vibrating through the young girls chest ~ her mouth moves to gasp and drink of herself ~ and her question breathes away with the breeze ... Exquisitely put.
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Post by therealfake on Mar 20, 2011 10:19:51 GMT -5
Tips for meditation? I have seriously tried so many times in the past. All failure... In Zen, it is called 'Beginners Mind'... Meditating for the sake of meditating... Most peeps meditate to gain something or to achieve a goal. Even experienced mediators loose sight of the beginners mind and so meditation becomes a ritual and nothing more... Just be yourself and don't let in any gaining or achieving idea's.
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Post by loverofall on Mar 20, 2011 12:12:24 GMT -5
We all have different personalities and patterns. Mediation for an overthinker like me really makes changes happen. Its never fun because the mind wants to go off into imagination. I have very good mind and it really likes to go down roads. I don't view it as a path to enlightenment but it definitely weakens my thinking patterns.
I get headaches all the time when I meditate. The mind really doesn't like it so for me it is beneficial in many ways.
I know its not going to be "fun" In matter fact I now step back and watch the resistance and irritation and open to that.
Change is the key. Keep changing patterns. The mind doesn't like change because it is risky.
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Post by dreamerrach on Mar 20, 2011 14:32:21 GMT -5
So far no gaps. Pretty sure telling myself to just shut up didn't necessarily help, but venting frustrations was nice . . .
Okay so you people who actually can meditate: Is it helpful to set a time to meditate? Like, when you awake-or before bed-or after work? Or just kinda whenever? Life's in total upheaval and chaos; trying to maintain stability-and I'm still searching..
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Post by sharon on Mar 20, 2011 14:57:59 GMT -5
Thanx
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