Beginning where you are

[michaelsees]

Just a thought. Guess what happens when anyone tries to bypass the relative you?

Nirmala a teacher I have always had much admiration for speaks about the relative level here. For those that feel they can just side step the "relative" because really in the Ultimate it does not exist should find this teacher beneficial.
endless-satsang.com/spiritual-teacher.htm

All this talk about higher truths will do nothing but hinder seekers unless first that seeker has passed through the "relative".

When I learned to fly many years ago it would have done no good for the instructor to just give me the airplane to fly after my first lesson. Sorry folks their are no short-cuts to knowing who and what you are. Crafting words to try and make it so in your mind is only one of the many tricks of the mind.

Truly I wish the best to all of you here.
I may not be saying it correctly but the need to get out of the mental masturbation of saying the same old thing over and over again as ZD and Enigma always say is a real need. I am not saying that they are incorrect but it's just not helpful to think like that.
When you do the work and realize by having embodied what they are saying then you shall have something of substance until then, to think like that only ads more play dough for the mind.

Peace
Over and out for now

Michael

[enigma]

As usual, what you imply about the folks on this forum doesn't seem to have much to do with them. I don't see anybody trying to think like somebody else. I do see some of them honestly and openly questioning and looking for what can be seen. This IS doing the work rather than skipping over it.
I DO see where that perception originates, though.

[michaelsees]

Enigma wrote
"
So here I'm probly sounding like some sort of non-traditional neo-advaitist saying it's all good and everything is happening the way it's happening because that's what's happening and how could it be happening some other way than how it's happening? I can't help it. It's so dang obvious to me that this is what is happening that I can't maintain an interest in an article that analyses the differences between teachings in an effort to derive some sort of conclusion about who should be chased out of the temple."

This is the nondual parrot on this forum. Is it no wonder you can find no interest anymore.
This type of attitude allows no growth nor interest but yet it's the non stopping echo heard on a daily basis here. It serves no one..

Okay nuff said except I am not speaking about others here on this forum except a couple that just love to drive home what I quoted from you above.

Be well

Michael

[enigma]

Has somebody been spiking your magic green glowing nuts?

[teknix]

Same thing apply's to the Kundalini.



What do you think about this Michael?

Specifically the last sentence.

[karen]

The relative takes care of itself yo.

[jenpa]

I've heard it said that we can't leap frog over our selves - I agree. I have personally found it very fruitful to get to the roots of my hooks and hang-ups. I think of it as cleaning house, you just have to do it before you can move freely through the space without tripping over something.

But I feel there is plenty of room for everyone's input on here. I have found inspiration and insight in the writings of those mentioned. And, what doesn't speak to or work for me at a particular time, I just move on.
We are really singing the same song. Some are singing the chorus (the pay off), some the intro, and some the verse. It's all beautiful. The song never ends. AUM!

[jenpa]

Also, this reminds me of a dream I had a couple of nights ago where i encountered a mysterious man who was a combination of Doctor Who (season 3&4) and a mystic sage of some sort. I was asking him questions about the mysteries of life, and the only answer I can recall was, "We all have to open our own doors."

[michaelsees]

Mar 3, 2011 12:55:59 GMT -5 jenpa said:

I've heard it said that we can't leap frog over our selves - I agree. I have personally found it very fruitful to get to the roots of my hooks and hang-ups. I think of it as cleaning house, you just have to do it before you can move freely through the space without tripping over something.

Precisely and exactly my point. You have no choice but to work with what you have which may be called the relative self. Trad Advaita has always taught this. Sure one can yell hey you dummie don't you know that is just the mind and there is no personal you but that is nonsense when it comes to doing the work. Trad Advaita teaches to honor and use the illusion that you are to finally see who you are.

My whole point is what good does it do to simply spout off things as it's just the mind, not real, stop seeking cuz you are that what you seek bla bla bla . The gospel truth is you begin where you are by being even above honest with yourself. It takes effort more than most are willing to give to see the truth of what is and who you are.

So you are most correct only fools think they can leap frog over the mind and the trials that await . I am making a point. I am not saying members here are doing this and I am not saying they are not.
Take it or leave it only remember there is no free lunch unless
ZD invites us over.

Michael

[teknix]

There is an organic remedy to help cleanse the toxins from your pathways, especially your pineal gland where flouride has been found to accumulate.

I don't want to be an advertisement, but Cilantro does help.

www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&biw=1419&bih=715&q=cilantro+4+oz&bav=on.2,or.&wrapid=tlif129918381562010&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=2470598878238567635&sa=X&ei=zf9vTdLbOsjdgQfIlfVF&ved=0CF4Q8wIwAw#

[jenpa]

In an interview with Linda Clair she says something that resonates with this:

Q: Enlightenment is to die while you're alive -- I think Bunan said that, and to me that communicates the profundity what we're talking about. You're saying that first comes the realization that "I'm not the mind," and then comes "I am not the body"? Doesn't Vipassana typically have people watch their body first, then watch the mind? I've had a number people say to me "I know I'm not the body, but I can't say that about my mind/awareness." Do they only "think" they are not the body and don't really understand?

A: You have to ‘realise’ that you’re not the body, and this is not an intellectual exercise. You can’t reason or talk your way through it. To realise means that it has become real for you in your body and this is only possible when the mind completely subsides. You need to go so deeply into the body that you trust the intelligence of the body rather than using the mind as security. You have to prove to yourself that the body does not need the mind to survive, because the great fear is that if you let go of the mind, the body will die. It’s such a huge thing, much bigger than I ever imagined. It’s the reason you have been given your body – to use it to realise that you are not your body – to realise the meaning of life.

www.spiritualteachers.org/linda_clair.htm

[teknix]

Mar 3, 2011 16:23:57 GMT -5 jenpa said:

In an interview with Linda Clair she says something that resonates with this:

Q: You're saying that first comes the realization that "I'm not the mind," and then comes "I am not the body"?
www.spiritualteachers.org/linda_clair.htm

I don't think that she answered the 1st question of order.
The body comes 1st becuase the mind plays by the same mechanisms as the body, and there exist fewer pitfalls in which one may stumble. The mind is more complex.

So you must 1st understand the basic mechanics on which the mind is built, which isn't really understanding at all, but feeling.

[michaelsees]

Mar 3, 2011 16:23:57 GMT -5 jenpa said:

In an interview with Linda Clair she says something that resonates with this:

Q: Enlightenment is to die while you're alive -- I think Bunan said that, and to me that communicates the profundity what we're talking about. You're saying that first comes the realization that "I'm not the mind," and then comes "I am not the body"? Doesn't Vipassana typically have people watch their body first, then watch the mind? I've had a number people say to me "I know I'm not the body, but I can't say that about my mind/awareness." Do they only "think" they are not the body and don't really understand?

A: You have to ‘realise’ that you’re not the body, and this is not an intellectual exercise. You can’t reason or talk your way through it. To realise means that it has become real for you in your body and this is only possible when the mind completely subsides. You need to go so deeply into the body that you trust the intelligence of the body rather than using the mind as security. You have to prove to yourself that the body does not need the mind to survive, because the great fear is that if you let go of the mind, the body will die. It’s such a huge thing, much bigger than I ever imagined. It’s the reason you have been given your body – to use it to realise that you are not your body – to realise the meaning of life.

www.spiritualteachers.org/linda_clair.htm

This is very true anyone that has had even glimpses of the truth embodied has to agree with her.
Now the poor souls still stuck in the mind well they shall stay stuck until or unless this truth is seen and felt. This is not a intellectual question as to what came first.
Good post
Going out now to buy some Cilantro

Michael

[zendancer]

Yep. Linda Clair is right on target with this.