Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 8:28:35 GMT -5
hey something zd said triggered a question.
from zd:
the evolutionary development concept is interesting. as a dad, i'm watching a 3 and 6 year old right now. developing. (formulating question clickety click click)
is childhood just development of mind? can abidance in the mind be skipped? LOL. not sure if this is a clear question.
|
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Feb 25, 2011 9:31:12 GMT -5
hey something zd said triggered a question. from zd: the evolutionary development concept is interesting. as a dad, i'm watching a 3 and 6 year old right now. developing. (formulating question clickety click click) is childhood just development of mind? can abidance in the mind be skipped? LOL. not sure if this is a clear question. Well, this is just a guess, but it appears that the shift from a very young child's non-abidance in the mind to ever-increasing abidance in the mind is an inescapable part of growing from childhood to adulthood. It appears that we have to distinguish the world--intellectually imagine it--and build up a mental model of it before reaching a point where we can discover how the mental model relates to the actual, and before we can see the value of retaining the model without investing in it. IOW, it seems that we have to attain a certain level of intellectual sophistication before we can see that all models of reality are models and that models are most useful when they are not mistaken for the actual. Many people have speculated that in the future it might become possible that children could be told the truth from an early age if enough adults understood the truth and reinforced the teaching. Currently, if an enlightened parent told her child, "Everything you see is you, but if you use the power of imagination, and imagine that what you see is trees, rivers, and stars," that's okay; just don't forget that all of those things are imaginary and they are really you," the parent's teaching would be undermined by what the child would be taught by everyone else in the culture. In the future, as more and more people discover the truth, this situation might change dramatically. As I mentioned recently, IMO it is only a matter of time before non-duality is featured on the cover of TIME magazine. Currently, scientists, in general, do not understand or appreciate the implications of Bell's Theorem regarding non-locality, but the next major paradigm shift in science will be the shift away from all paradigms to the actual. Maybe we could call that an "anti-paradigm shift!" LOL. |
|
|
|
Post by angela on Feb 25, 2011 9:40:59 GMT -5
i don't read a whole lot of ken wilber, but recently while investigating who of his beautiful pieces of writing (the memoir grace and grit, and the final chapter in the book eye of spirit - a lovely prose piece about 'always already')..... i found him referencing what he calls the "pre/trans fallacy" - which refers to the pre-personal (childhood stages) and the trans-personal (gone beyond) aspects of life. from what i have discerened about it, it explores this very question in detail. i suspect you can google the term and his name and find some great stuff about the subject. wilber is a bit heavy handed for my taste, most of the time, but there is no doubt he is an exceptional thinker - and most anything having whatsoever to do with enlightenment and how it touches in with our humanity at all levels, he's probably covered. the pre/trans fallacy writings may be full of all sorts of other nonsense, i'm not sure, but it may be an interesting exploration for a father who is curious about this stuff.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 10:22:37 GMT -5
i was just thinking about Santa Claus and how my fatherly approach has been to be sort of reluctant to reinforce the story. i participate but reluctantly.
i don't want them going around and raining on other kids' parades, for example. soon come.
now i see that there could be huge utility in the story -- build it up knowing that it's only a matter of time until the whole mirage disappears. could be a good reference point wrt abidance or non-abidance in the mind.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 10:27:45 GMT -5
relatedly, thanks to a tip from sharon, i notice that chuck hillig has children's book called "The Magic King"
"This is the magical story of a young King who lives all by himself in a wonderful kingdom. In order to stop feeling bored, he decides to create for himself a dream world filled with interesting characters and mesmerizing distractions. After he sees how much fun everyone is having in his imaginary world, he puts on a disguise and joins the players for himself. However, as he gets more and more entranced by his own drama, he slowly forgets that he's only been playing a fascinating game with himself, and that he's actually the One-and-Only King who has created It all!"
|
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Feb 25, 2011 11:22:07 GMT -5
Max and Sharon: That sounds like a fun book, so I just ordered a copy from Amazon. The only review was written by Deepak Chopra. Several other well-known folks have similarly found it enjoyable. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Feb 25, 2011 12:08:46 GMT -5
hey something zd said triggered a question. from zd: the evolutionary development concept is interesting. as a dad, i'm watching a 3 and 6 year old right now. developing. (formulating question clickety click click) is childhood just development of mind? can abidance in the mind be skipped? LOL. not sure if this is a clear question. It seems that self awareness, in the biological sense, is an inevitable evolutionary step, and what makes mankind's creativity and compassion possible, along with self identification and all the suffering implied. This same self awareness also makes it possible to transcend this level of human development. Self awareness clearly cannot be skipped and, as I see it, this leads quite naturally to self identification. Self awareness (biological) asks the question 'Who am I?' and the most obvious answer is that I'm a separate person with a mind and a body. This is what appears to mind and though everybody around us reinforces that notion, the reinforcement is hardly necessary. This leaves the question as to whether the opposite can be socially reinforced; that it merely appears to be so and it's not really true. To some extent I'm sure it can, but if there is an interest in 'being a person', I suspect this interest will play out as it does. IOW, it's fun being a human right up until it's not....so much....anymore. |
|
frustratedwanter
Full Member
Apparently I posted something in 2020. I don't think that's what I'm looking for but what ta hey?
Posts: 150
|
Post by frustratedwanter on Feb 25, 2011 15:45:12 GMT -5
I heard Ram Dass (alpert) say something like "You have to let them become somebody before they can become nobody". He might have been talking about kids and LSD (I forget). I think Nisargadatta answers a similar question SOMEWHERE with a similar response. Leave them alone.
I'd try and find the passage but it would be like looking for god.
I was only involved with raising my kids for a short while (up close). Oddly enough it was right about the time I started trying to understand life. Guess kids can make that happen.
My 2 cents on the matter is you let them teach you about you and try not to impose the ugly stupidities that pass for normal on them. What those uglies might be you'll have to figure out.
A personal example of "teaching you about you": I'm in the supermarket, kids are screaming. I recognize that what REALLY has me agitated is NOT the tired, unreasonable turds I'm dealing with.
I'm worried other people will consider me a bad parent.
I decide not to let that move me.
I'm sure you've seen kids being smacked and yelled at.
Why?
And as for the uglies: I'm convinced that when you open that baby's diaper, exclaim loudly and turn your head away in disgust you're actually telling that kid something.
Unless you do it in a fun way, of course.
In short: Try and keep YOUR head on straight and they'll wind up where they wind up.
And if you don't screw them up enough they'll wind up happy and never go in search of something "beyond".
Then what?
Is that success or failure?
|
|
|
|
Post by sharon on Feb 25, 2011 16:34:36 GMT -5
They came from the "beyond" ~ Give them the space to open it up in the present.
These clear reminders combined with safe and balanced, adult, encouragement and stability, solidify the unborn within the born.
|
|
|
|
Post by sharon on Feb 25, 2011 17:42:23 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Portto on Feb 26, 2011 9:41:24 GMT -5
We can sometimes see adults reverting to a forced no-self state when they have amnesia.
They enjoy everything more, they are exuberant and pleasant.
But most of them start looking for something to identify with, usually with the help of family and friends. When 'self' returns, they become serious.
Amazing!
|
|
jenpa
Junior Member
Posts: 79
|
Post by jenpa on Mar 1, 2011 13:52:16 GMT -5
This reminds me of something I read Linda Clair say in an interview:
"You have to ‘realize’ that you’re not the body, and this is not an intellectual exercise. You can’t reason or talk your way through it. To realize means that it has become real for you in your body and this is only possible when the mind completely subsides. You need to go so deeply into the body that you trust the intelligence of the body rather than using the mind as security. You have to prove to yourself that the body does not need the mind to survive, because the great fear is that if you let go of the mind, the body will die. It’s such a huge thing, much bigger than I ever imagined. It’s the reason you have been given your body — to use it to realize that you are not your body — to realize the meaning of life." - Linda Clair
|
|
