|
Post by enigma on Jan 17, 2011 20:51:58 GMT -5
Just stay open to the possibility that you CAN know with certainty. Yes, but as long as I am a physical body, with a brain, which seems to create my experience of everything. I can't be certain, that I'm not just a grand illusion or something more... The whole point is that you aren't that, not now, not ever.
|
|
|
Post by therealfake on Jan 17, 2011 21:44:52 GMT -5
Yes, but as long as I am a physical body, with a brain, which seems to create my experience of everything. I can't be certain, that I'm not just a grand illusion or something more... The whole point is that you aren't that, not now, not ever. So, your saying that when the body dies, I am still here?
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jan 17, 2011 22:28:40 GMT -5
The whole point is that you aren't that, not now, not ever. So, your saying that when the body dies, I am still here? Absolutely! As Ramana so wonderfully said, "How could I possibly go anywhere?" You were here before the universe began, and You'll be here after the universe is gone. There's just no end of You. LOL Above the entrance to a monastery in Japan are some words written by a famous master that go something like this, "14,600 mornings in forty years. Haven't you recognized by now that it's the same old fellow?"
|
|
|
Post by therealfake on Jan 17, 2011 23:04:27 GMT -5
So, your saying that when the body dies, I am still here? Absolutely! As Ramana so wonderfully said, "How could I possibly go anywhere?" You were here before the universe began, and You'll be here after the universe is gone. There's just no end of You. LOL Above the entrance to a monastery in Japan are some words written by a famous master that go something like this, "14,600 mornings in forty years. Haven't you recognized by now that it's the same old fellow?" Am I disembodied, nothingness, somethingness, life, have a memory, what? Your talking about a belief here, life after death, which as far as I know, no ones come back from, to give a report on... As we know, beliefs can be nothing more than mental constructions, of a certain brain state. More importantly, if we are not the body, why are we chanined to it and not able to fly away on the wings of consciousness?
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 18, 2011 0:31:13 GMT -5
The whole point is that you aren't that, not now, not ever. So, your saying that when the body dies, I am still here? Nisargadatta
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 18, 2011 0:33:44 GMT -5
OMG! You mean we'll never be rid of him?!
|
|
|
Post by karen on Jan 18, 2011 0:52:42 GMT -5
Your talking about a belief here, life after death, which as far as I know, no ones come back from, to give a report on... Not true. You give testimony with your very breath for have you not been dead for 14.5 billion years prior to your birth?
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 18, 2011 1:16:10 GMT -5
HA! That was a weird thought.
|
|
|
Post by mamza on Jan 18, 2011 2:56:14 GMT -5
It sounds like you're talking about a belief more than they are. You believe you're the body, that you have something, that we're chained to the body, and that if we're not the body, we'll be able to float around or whatever.
Let me ask you something that I think Zendancer asked me once: Who circulates the blood in your body? I know I don't. It does what it does automatically without any 'you' telling it to.
Have you ever noticed a time when you got something done without even realizing it? Maybe you drove to the store or went to the bathroom in the middle of the night, and you don't notice they happen because you're 'zoned out.' The 'you' that you believe you are was certainly not present in those moments, but the deed was done regardless.
Now if the body is doing these things without you telling it to do them, are you sure that it isn't just happening all the time without you realizing it?
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jan 18, 2011 5:47:32 GMT -5
Absolutely! As Ramana so wonderfully said, "How could I possibly go anywhere?" You were here before the universe began, and You'll be here after the universe is gone. There's just no end of You. LOL Above the entrance to a monastery in Japan are some words written by a famous master that go something like this, "14,600 mornings in forty years. Haven't you recognized by now that it's the same old fellow?" Am I disembodied, nothingness, somethingness, life, have a memory, what? Your talking about a belief here, life after death, which as far as I know, no ones come back from, to give a report on... As we know, beliefs can be nothing more than mental constructions, of a certain brain state. More importantly, if we are not the body, why are we chanined to it and not able to fly away on the wings of consciousness? A belief? OMG, do you think, after searching for the truth for thirty-five years, that I'd be satisfied with a miserable belief? Ha ha ha. Now, that's really funny! No, My Own True Lovable Self who currently thinks It's TRF, it's a direct experience. You wrote, "....if we are not the body, why are we chained to it....?" Who's chained to a body? Go outside and look up into the night sky. That's You as much as that bag of bones you think you're lugging around. You're the only One here, but you haven't realized it yet. One of these days Christmas is going to arrive, and you're going to get a very big present (pun fully intended). It will be the best present you will ever get. Let us know when you get it (pun fully intended) so that we can all share your joy and laughter.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2011 7:58:43 GMT -5
One of these days Christmas is going to arrive, and you're going to get a very big present (pun fully intended). It will be the best present you will ever get. Let us know when you get it (pun fully intended) so that we can all share your joy and laughter. that in real life is exactly what happened here this xmas!
|
|
|
Post by michaelsees on Jan 18, 2011 9:04:03 GMT -5
The only problem is people do not exist which means yes you never go anywhere but you certainly give up this sense of being a individual. I think this is what TRF was asking about. People are mostly scared to death that if they giving up the body they no longer exist on in a way this is true. They no longer exist as a person just the absolute which is not consciousness.
Michael
|
|
|
Post by question on Jan 18, 2011 11:48:39 GMT -5
Well imo "what is" can never be doubted in this world or in no world. Whatever what is it's what is. A person walks across the street get's hit by a car, Your wife leaves you for another man, your kid calls you a old fart. A golden light visits your dark bedroom at night. What is by it's nature is doubtless. The only way doubt could be placed on "what is" by disillusion"mind" someone with mental disorders but for the rest of us it's a simple surrender to the "what is" Michael Yes, unless 'what is' is a hologram... Yes, something like that. But the problem is that this doubt expresses an unverifiable assumption (belief). Which is why it's a waste of time to battle this doubt. Even if God himself were to tell me that I will exist after death, I still wouldn't be able to not doubt his statement.
|
|
|
Post by karen on Jan 18, 2011 12:06:10 GMT -5
Why do we doubt our nature after death, but not question it prior to birth? Were you prior to conception? Did you survive that?
|
|
|
Post by therealfake on Jan 18, 2011 12:10:36 GMT -5
The only problem is people do not exist which means yes you never go anywhere but you certainly give up this sense of being a individual. I think this is what TRF was asking about. People are mostly scared to death that if they giving up the body they no longer exist on in a way this is true. They no longer exist as a person just the absolute which is not consciousness. Michael Bulls Eye..... My communication skills can lack clarity, so it's nice to see them mirrored accurately. I know that I am not the body, but that is not an intuitive observation. Are the means to that realization important, probably not? I agree with you M, when you say peeps are scared to death of the unknown. It's a universal protection mechanism, but only for the false self, that we think we are. Liberation, does in fact come after death, whether it comes before, is debatable, but liberation after is not. What is debatable, is if consciousness continues. My contention is that without the vessel of consciousness, the human brain, that it does not. What is for sure, is that after death, there will be 'Nothing'. 'Nothing', is all encompassing because everything arises from it. 'Nothing', is the oneness that we are, before and after death. Consciousness arises from 'Nothing', but 'Nothing' cannot arise from consciousness. It's all about that...
|
|