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Post by zendancer on Jan 15, 2011 17:00:35 GMT -5
Stepvhen: Well said. We each manifest the isness in our own unique way. My wife and I are perfect opposites, and that's perfect, too. Ha ha.
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Post by popee on Jan 15, 2011 19:04:23 GMT -5
And still, I do not quite "get it".
Not that I am clinging to the false, just that, old habits die hard I guess.
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Post by mamza on Jan 15, 2011 19:31:45 GMT -5
How will I know what it is my body/mind needs to do as opposed to what it is 'I' think they need to do? As Enigma pointed out, I've apparently been latching thoughts onto almost every action I perform without even realizing it.
Obviously the more natural actions will happen on their own like using the restroom, but what about less natural things? For instance, right now this body/mind is in front of a computer, so is what it 'needs' to be doing sitting, reading, typing, and thinking, or do you mean something else?
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Post by zendancer on Jan 15, 2011 20:44:47 GMT -5
Mamza: You already know what you have to be doing this moment because it is what you ARE doing, which is sitting at a computer reading, typing, thinking, etc. If at some point you don't know what you need to be doing, then just watch the body because IT knows. The point of this question is to take away fantasies about the future or thoughts about the past and to take you out of the mind and focus attention upon the actual.
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Post by therealfake on Jan 16, 2011 0:54:34 GMT -5
How will I know what it is my body/mind needs to do as opposed to what it is 'I' think they need to do? As Enigma pointed out, I've apparently been latching thoughts onto almost every action I perform without even realizing it. Obviously the more natural actions will happen on their own like using the restroom, but what about less natural things? For instance, right now this body/mind is in front of a computer, so is what it 'needs' to be doing sitting, reading, typing, and thinking, or do you mean something else? There is really no time interval between thinking your the doer of what's happening and being the observer of what's just happening. They arise simultaneously. See if you can catch yourself thinking that your the doer of what's happening, instead of just being aware of what's happening. It's very subtle, but you can do it and it's fun. We're not doing anything, we just think we are. As something happens, we automatically think about what's happening and assume the role of the doer. We choose to look at our thought about what's happening, rather than what's actually happening. Here's an example. You raise your arm to scratch an itchy spot on your head. Simultaneously you "think", my head itches, I am moving my arm and I am scratching my head. You think "you" are itching and "you" are scratching. It's actually life itching and scratching and your simply watching it. You and me are not doers, and it's a reality pill that's hard to swallow. It takes courage to see things directly, because control, is one of the strongest impulses of the ego and it won't give it up easily. That's my take on it anyway, or rather life's take on it or the parroting of a satsang teacher, whatever.. TRF
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 16, 2011 9:35:00 GMT -5
Be still and just be with what happens next. Don't worry about this awakening stuff. You are already that. To see this is to see who you are in a split second. In that split second you will see you have always been a a non-eventual now-ness. This happens when it happens with no possibility of making it happen sooner or later.
Every moment has the possibility of awakening to this split second. So be happy
Peace Michael
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Post by popee on Jan 16, 2011 10:42:29 GMT -5
"split seconds" point to nothing, it might just as well read, "a million years".
There is no "present", everything we know occurred in the past, which is done.
Clinging to the past is where trouble begins.
I agree with everything you said.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 16, 2011 10:55:58 GMT -5
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Post by therealfake on Jan 16, 2011 13:19:27 GMT -5
"split seconds" point to nothing, it might just as well read, "a million years". There is no "present", everything we know occurred in the past, which is done. Clinging to the past is where trouble begins. I agree with everything you said. Actually there is a present, it is the now. It's always been the now and always will be the now, for eternity. The now is the only thing, the only thing, that hasn't changed for a million, million, billion years... Everything we know or have learned happens in the now. There is no such thing as "time". Time is a human invention, there is just this now moment. Most people don't live in the now, but as you say live out there entire lives, through past now moments as memories. Or they project themselves into the future, which doesn't exist. You can place your attention anywhere, a past memory, the present moment or an imagined future moment. Which of these choices reflects the truth of you?
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Post by karen on Jan 16, 2011 13:29:31 GMT -5
There seems no reason to bring up "millions of years". And I wouldn't call time a human invention. It seems more an error of perception of the senses - that they seem to only register one thing at a time - therefor there seems to be liner progression.
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Post by popee on Jan 16, 2011 14:10:06 GMT -5
True enough (both of you). Going forward, keep in mind this little disclaimer to anything I'll ever write: If I write about 'human' things, I can usually be clear enough (though not always). But when I try to write about non-human (for lack of a better word) things, its quite likely my words will be muddled and poorly executed. I would be wise in not saying anything at all, but what's the fun in that? (kidding) When I wrote "the present", I was referring to the time based construct. I contend that the present is non-existent, that there is no gap between the future becoming the past. The "Now" being the spiritual based construct, which typical humans can't quite grasp the understanding of. Thus 'split seconds' and 'a million years' in the Now, would have no meaning. (I think) LOL I'll be quiet now.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 16, 2011 14:26:54 GMT -5
Popee,
I am very clear on what you wrote and agree.
Michael
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Post by popee on Jan 16, 2011 14:32:18 GMT -5
TRF wrote, "Which of these choices reflects the truth of you?"
Great question (for all peoples). Personally, I live in the present only, but as stated above, to me that is a non-existent place. So in a way, I'm living in some weird adaptation of purgatory (which is not a "bad" place, as I'm really quite content), but, foggy and lacking clarity.
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Post by therealfake on Jan 16, 2011 14:54:49 GMT -5
True enough (both of you). Going forward, keep in mind this little disclaimer to anything I'll ever write: If I write about 'human' things, I can usually be clear enough (though not always). But when I try to write about non-human (for lack of a better word) things, its quite likely my words will be muddled and poorly executed. I would be wise in not saying anything at all, but what's the fun in that? (kidding) When I wrote "the present", I was referring to the time based construct. I contend that the present is non-existent, that there is no gap between the future becoming the past. The "Now" being the spiritual based construct, which typical humans can't quite grasp the understanding of. Thus 'split seconds' and 'a million years' in the Now, would have no meaning. (I think) LOL I'll be quiet now. No, never be quiet, that will not be tolerated... ;D Except in this little exploration that you can try at your leisure. If you simply push yourself away from your computer desk and sit quietly, trying to be as still as possible. Keeping your eyes open, scan the room, look at and pause at each item you see for a moment. Don't think about what you see, just look. Look as though you don't know what your looking at. Feel your body and see that it is always moving no matter how still you try to become. Feel it's aliveness. Feel your breath at your nose or mouth. Now, ask yourself, what am I right now? If a thought about the past pops up, you have left the now moment and gone back to a me moment in time. Show me this thought of your past me. It's just a memory. It doesn't exist here in the now, does it? Consequently, as you become aware of this now moment, show me the future, where is the future? It's not here is it? This now moment is not conceptual and it has nothing to do with spirituality. Explore this moment, just don't believe what I'm telling you. Dive deep into this now moment and tell me if you can find Mr. Time. It's here waiting for your attention... There's no rush though, the now isn't going away anytime soon... PS: Yes, it is a non existent place, but only for the "thought" that I am a person. When you go deep into the now, you'll find out that there really is no you, the way you "think". For some people, it's not the time or place to make this discovery. Being aware of it is enough and can bring great peace. PSS: I just read your above post about living in the now, so it's redundant for you, but maybe it'll help some peeps who aren't familiar it... TRF
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Post by karen on Jan 16, 2011 16:09:11 GMT -5
It's always good to be reminded to keep one's attention on what is.
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