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Post by michaelsees on Jan 3, 2011 23:39:37 GMT -5
yes but the eyes themselves are designed to see 3D when you look at the actual architecture of eyes you can see why we see in 3D and in 3D there is separation. I understand what you are saying but if you woke up one day and this was not true about the eyes seeing separation you would have a impossible time just driving to work. The whole world becomes imaginary only when it is looked at from a place not in this world well that is my take of it. I find this area extremely interesting. In the late 80"s I had a friend, she was a massage therapist starting a small healing center and she bought a flotation tank which were the thing to have in those days. I would spend hours in her tank sometimes straight, sometimes with shrooms. The interesting thing was the amazing hallucinations were not only very colorful straight or with shrooms but you could also see the images were moving and dimensional. Now you are not using the eyes for this but what you see is very similar to the world with eyes which leads me to see a link here to what you said about the mind and imagination if you can see the same stuff without eyes then it must be coming from the same place.
Michael
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Post by enigma on Jan 4, 2011 3:06:44 GMT -5
Atmananda says that only in deep sleep we are our true nature. He also says that if you have any ills of anykind and they are healed in deep sleep the results are instanstous. I am not into the healing thing much but once you understand what he is saying it all makes perfect since. You can be "awaken" and never but never be aware in deep sleep however there are some that are aware. It makes no sense on how and why this can happen but some well known real awaken teachers as well as Atmaanda have be able to do this. Michael Well, it's an odd thingy because it's not really awareness in deep sleep that's being questioned, but the ability to incorporate the memory of a non-objective awareness in the mind such that when consciousness returns on awakening, the mind can report that awareness was present. Mind records only objectified experience, so how does it know this subjectivity of deep sleep? Such radical subjectivity is not a recordable experience, even though perhaps we can say there is timeless 'experiencing'.
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Post by enigma on Jan 4, 2011 3:12:35 GMT -5
Do me a favor and let me know when you plan to go to sleep so's I can prepare for the Great Disappearance, okay? Hehe. Lol, OK, no problem... I think it only takes one mind to create the world anyway, so even if 6.9 billion minds fell into a deep sleep, one man or woman could keep it going... Even if the whole planet did fall into a deep sleep, who's going to be around to verify that the world disappeared? Just a worldly thought. I wonder if we could arrange it that everybody in the world goes to sleep at the same time except me. I'll take videos of what happens and post it on Youtube. (Once all the geeks wake up and recreate the internet again) Hehe.
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Post by enigma on Jan 4, 2011 3:17:46 GMT -5
The world you seem to live in consists of your personal thoughts and feelings ABOUT the world, and this has to be reconstructed when 'you' reappear in the morning. enigma, You are right. I have experienced this process while in that state between sleep and waking. It's an actual reconstruction of the world as "you" know it and it happens without any conscious effort; it's automatic. It would be fun to try to interfere with that process but the problem is that the 'me' has to appear before the interfering can happen, and as you suggest, the rest of the personal world reforms along with it, bubbling up, so to speak, from unconscious levels, and very quickly.
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Post by enigma on Jan 4, 2011 3:19:03 GMT -5
I do not know cuz I never been able to do it but when a sage such as Ramana experienced this and Ramana also I would believe it's possible.It's difficult enough to speak about non duality in waking consciousness let alone deep sleep where memory is not present. Michael A few times I have noticed continuity upon emerging from deep sleep into a dream state. I'm curious, what sort of continuity?
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Post by m on Jan 4, 2011 3:56:38 GMT -5
I once happened to get (don't ask me why or how: I don't know), for a sec, everything was constructing-deconstructing-constructing itself-without any stop, moment-to-moment, just like a virtual stuff. There was no emotion, and no counscious idea of mine, at all. Anothertime, the world (as it appeared to me) did not change in anyway except there was a beauty that started to king of emerge and grow very slowly, but then came to such an intensity I thought unbearible. Lasted, may be one minute (which is like eternity to live). When I saw the "dancing bag" in "American beauty", it reminded me this incridible beauty.There I had conscious thoughts and emotions about the show. m The world you seem to live in consists of your personal thoughts and feelings ABOUT the world, and this has to be reconstructed when 'you' reappear in the morning. enigma, You are right. I have experienced this process while in that state between sleep and waking. It's an actual reconstruction of the world as "you" know it and it happens without any conscious effort; it's automatic.
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Post by Portto on Jan 4, 2011 9:48:57 GMT -5
When it comes to deep sleep, my dish-washing activities come to a screeching halt. I can't help it. Well, it's an odd thingy because it's not really awareness in deep sleep that's being questioned, but the ability to incorporate the memory of a non-objective awareness in the mind such that when consciousness returns on awakening, the mind can report that awareness was present. Mind records only objectified experience, so how does it know this subjectivity of deep sleep? Such radical subjectivity is not a recordable experience, even though perhaps we can say there is timeless 'experiencing'. Indeed. Deep sleep happens only when the mind stops working, so mind can't know anything about its deep sleep. Maybe some people are interested in giving up sleep altogether. Anyway, mind can never be aware of awareness, so it can't say whether awareness is coming and going. Nice observations, Enigma! Luckily, the 'one mind' has a muuuultiplyyyy split personality, so we can observe what happens when other minds sleep: the body is still there.
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Post by Portto on Jan 4, 2011 9:50:11 GMT -5
Lol, OK, no problem... I think it only takes one mind to create the world anyway, so even if 6.9 billion minds fell into a deep sleep, one man or woman could keep it going... Even if the whole planet did fall into a deep sleep, who's going to be around to verify that the world disappeared? Just a worldly thought. I wonder if we could arrange it that everybody in the world goes to sleep at the same time except me. I'll take videos of what happens and post it on Youtube. (Once all the geeks wake up and recreate the internet again) Hehe. Nay, that's when squirrels will take over the world. Or maybe Martians.
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Post by karen on Jan 4, 2011 11:00:02 GMT -5
I'm curious, what sort of continuity? It was continuity of awareness. Or at least that is what it seemed to me. It was black because there was no light, but it was not black because there was no color. Then the dream emerged.
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Post by charliegee on Jan 4, 2011 22:17:45 GMT -5
and when gas is passed in deep sleep there is no farter ...
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Post by karen on Jan 4, 2011 23:09:27 GMT -5
Yes, there is only one big dutch oven.
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Post by enigma on Jan 5, 2011 0:40:39 GMT -5
"Nay, that's when squirrels will take over the world."
I knew it! The squirrels are just waiting for us to screw up!
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Post by enigma on Jan 5, 2011 0:51:47 GMT -5
The world you seem to live in consists of your personal thoughts and feelings ABOUT the world, and this has to be reconstructed when 'you' reappear in the morning. This answer brought up another my long-time question regarding the world. Some said the world is the projection of the mind. If this is true, then how does the mind do it? It is easy to see thoughts arising and falling in my mental space and treating them as separate entities, but I don't think thoughts have anything to do with the world seen in front of me. Does the mind do the projection through images - which is another type of entity? It can be confusing to say mind projects the world. Mind is one of those 'projections' since it appears. (It can't be appearing to a mind, eh?) Also, the idea of projection (in this context) implies something that isn't really happening. A thought that happens 'in your head' doesn't create the tree that you see with your eyes. The easiest thing is to see thoughts, feelings and senses as merely different forms of perception, and all these forms together are appearances happening in consciousness. There aren't some things happening 'out there' and other things happening 'in here'. 'Out there' and 'in here' are also appearances. We could, however, say all appearances are essentially ideas or imagination experienced in some form.
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