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Post by charliegee on Jul 30, 2010 7:02:04 GMT -5
perhaps, if you want to simplify it and not address the question ...
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Post by robert on Jul 30, 2010 8:04:07 GMT -5
is it possible for someone who has written a book that has helped untold numbers of people to later suffer a mental breakdown? of course they can, but does that mental breakdown change their essential nature. no. is their suffering? go slam your hand in a car door, and tell me later, of course there's injury. but again does that injury change the essential nature? no. i think that it is easy to momentarily allow the attention to slip from one's true nature, and to focus on a specific more urgent call from the body from either pain and or fear. but that still does not change the unchangeable. the truth will always be, what are you, are you the body and its perceived experiences, or are you the essential nature? it seems to be a matter of focus. robert
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Post by charliegee on Jul 30, 2010 8:19:09 GMT -5
fair enough assessment Robert ...
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Post by zendancer on Jul 30, 2010 10:33:29 GMT -5
Charlie: I have never read ACIM, and I have no interest in it, but from what I have heard it has been very helpful to a lot of people, and it apparently precipitated cosmic consciousness experiences for two friends of mine. Was it dreamed up? Was it channeled? Who knows? I surely wouldn't rely on the evaluation of anyone with an axe to grind or a lack of insight into non-duality. It took the Catholic Church 500 years to accept that Meister Eckhart was a mystic worth claiming as one of its own despite its earlier attitude that he was a virtual heretic. Mother Teresa (as revealed in a recent book containing notes from her confessor) was tortured by her sense that God had abandoned her (as if that were possible). Human beings are complex critters and Ikkyu, a famous Japanese Zen Master, committed suicide. Go figure. As Robert noted, if ACIM helps people, great. IMO it doesn't much matter if the writer suffered depression before, during, or after writing it. The truth is shining everywhere, but it isn't contained in words. Words are nothing more than ragged signposts pointing to the ineffable. If we dive into the ineffable, all this mindstuff evaporates like morning mist. From my perspective you could throw away every holy book in the world, and nothing significant would be lost. They could all be replaced with one sign that reads, "Become silent and look within," or "Be still, and know that I am God." Same message; all the rest is fluff. More later.......
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Post by charliegee on Jul 30, 2010 10:59:16 GMT -5
thanks ZD ~ that makes sense ~
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Post by sherry on Jul 30, 2010 13:00:42 GMT -5
Thanks zendancer! Your input is eloquent and 'right-on'.
Charlie, I'm one who studied the course for several years and received much help, healing and positive guidance from it. It stresses that it is a self-study course and there is no need for a teacher, much less a paid one. It makes no claim to being 'the one way', but that it is only one form of the universal course leading home. Because of the (particular to ACIM) meaning of some of the words in it, quoting parts of it out of context and/or without studying the whole can be misleading and confusing. Helen Shucman felt compelled to write and sometimes she resented the timely project she had become involved in. She, however, was absolutely certain that the voice/real author of The Course was Jesus and she had a dear-to-her and longstanding personal relationship with Jesus. In ACIM, Jesus is considered to have indeed been a real man in the flesh (as much as any one of us are 'in the flesh') and one who was enlightened. Helen had periods of depression several times during her life, but this in no way denies the beauty/helpfullness/truth of the materials that she participated in delivering.
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Post by enigma on Jul 30, 2010 13:34:13 GMT -5
To address the question directly, as I think Wabbit said, the one through whom words are 'channeled' does not necessarily understand them or see the deeper meaning in them, assuming there is one.
An example that I'm more familiar with is Neal Walsch of 'Conversations with God' fame. His books are not what most here might call 'advanced spirituality' and they are not nonduality, but they are nice in the context in which they were written, for a particular level of understanding. The funny thing is that when Neale talks about what 'he' wrote, it becomes clear he doesn't understand it. There's actually a running joke (okay, I might have started it) that Neale would be fine if only he would read his own books. Hehe.
The point is that ACIM is a message, Helen is a messenger. I have read parts of ACIM and explored it in depth on several forums, but I don't claim to be an expert or a practitioner. I do, however, understand what I read, and i have no issue with the 'truth' contained within it. What I consistently have an issue with is the students' interpretations of it. Most of this is, of course, mind/ego interpreting such that it carves out it's little piece of personal 'heaven'. Much of the confusion seems to result from the serious symbolic complexity, which is why I couldn't read the 600 pages. To me, this complexity is the result of trying to use Christian language to point beyond traditional Christianity. The symbolic, often wonderfully poetic, language is a limiter for some, while the 'pointing' beyond is seen as sacrilege to others. (perhaps reflected in the demonic perspective in Charlie's post)
My opinion is that nearly all ACIM students get 'trapped within the words' and never escape. Many students have 'practiced' for decades and seem to have no clear understanding what the Course is even pointing to. As with all teachings, the goal is to transcend the teaching, and personally i haven't seen anybody do that through ACIM alone.
I would say ACIM has value in terms of ego work, and no doubt serves many in this way, and ACIM forums can become egoic and unpleasant at times as this work is being done, but I doubt that it has a significant potential to move most beyond that. (My own perspective only, of course.)
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Post by charliegee on Jul 30, 2010 14:46:48 GMT -5
thanks E ~ always a pleasure to hear from you ~ and a delight to hear your take on things ~
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Post by loverofall on Jul 30, 2010 20:21:15 GMT -5
I was introduced to A Course in Miracles by reading a book called "Undoing the Ego". I highly recommend that book if you want to read a book based on the course. It's such a key book in that it focuses on the emotional side of this process by breaking it all down to 6 stages unlike any other book I have read. My experience has followed those stages pretty closely and the cycling from 4 back to 2.
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Post by karen on Jul 30, 2010 23:15:00 GMT -5
I have ACIM in audio format, and at one time I would listen to it while hiking. I also ran it in a loop while sleeping for close to a year back in the day. It was a great comfort.
But I never went through the complete course, and i have moved on.
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Post by jedadya on Jul 31, 2010 16:10:34 GMT -5
I joined a ACIM group about 15 years ago and didn't understand any of it.....however, I found it comforting, beautiful and intriguing....kind of how I felt in church when I was little....I didn't understand any of it but I knew it was important....I also intuitively knew that the man at the pulpit didn't have the whole story....same with the Course. Due to the lack of resources where I live, I joined a ACIM group and lasted about six months...not because I disagreed with the Course material but because the other participants could only see the whole "non-duality" thing in the context of the Course....if the discussion moved into any other tradition, even if it supported the what the text was saying, they would shut down. Also, the discussion would usually get bogged down in intellectualism (?)
I also loved the book Take Me to Truth!
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Post by skyblue on Jul 31, 2010 16:26:26 GMT -5
'My opinion is that nearly all ACIM students get 'trapped within the words' and never escape. Many students have 'practiced' for decades and seem to have no clear understanding what the Course is even pointing to."
I've seen this as well. For me ACIM opened me to nondual teachings but it was just the beginning.
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Post by enigma on Jul 31, 2010 17:20:35 GMT -5
'My opinion is that nearly all ACIM students get 'trapped within the words' and never escape. Many students have 'practiced' for decades and seem to have no clear understanding what the Course is even pointing to." I've seen this as well. For me ACIM opened me to nondual teachings but it was just the beginning.You escaped! Hehe. Yes, even the Course talks about itself as a beginning, or whatever words are used. I guess the long term students I encounter on the forums are the ones who haven't escaped, so I should be more specific about my generalizations. ;D
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dei
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by dei on Aug 3, 2010 12:12:28 GMT -5
I received ACIM as daily emails for the last couple of years, and i was able to recognize the Truth in/through all those WORDS but omg it's so full of words. The emphasis on "forgiveness" bothered me until i finally found what was meant, many months into the text... that really there's nothing to forgive... well finally! Because so many people get very hung up on forgiving/blaming/condoning and all that stuff and think that forgiving is something you DO. I'd been waiting all those months to see if the Course would relay the truth and it did eventually. The ladies i meet with weekly for Gangaji video satsang also attend a Course group but although i'd be welcome, i just don't see the point. Twice thru ACIM on my own was plenty.
I agree about the channeler not necessarily understanding what they channel... there is no guarantee that inspiration results in wisdom. Sounds like the woman resented and resisted her own channeled work too... that would certainly cause some dualistic mind games.
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Post by loverofall on Aug 4, 2010 16:33:52 GMT -5
The most POWERFUL teaching is that there is nothing to forgive because attack is not real.
You can work though forgiving someone or you can just see it is not real. THere is no guilt because we are just biology and environment manifesting in the decisions and emotions that are now arising.
The course is powerful in understanding that egoic emotional patterns are based on illusion. Once that is felt at the visceral level, reactions are quickly dissolved or nonexistent. A powerful part of the undoing of the mind.
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