lobo
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Posts: 193
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Post by lobo on Jul 5, 2010 12:15:17 GMT -5
Burt: I often use the example of dieting (or stopping any similarly addictive habit) to help people see that their actions are not self-directed. I advise people who periodically "decide" to go on a diet to watch carefully what happens each day. Typically, a person "intends" to go on a diet. Even the first day they may or may not follow the diet. Each day thereafter is the same. The intention seems to be there, but the intention is only a sequence of thoughts that are often totally unrelated to what is happening. What the body/mind actually does moment by moment is unpredictable and mysterious. Sometimes a diet is followed and sometimes not. Sometimes the person diets during the day and gorges at night. Sometimes the dieting continues and the person thinks that he/she is succeeding by the successful exertion of willpower. Sometimes the dieting ceases and the person thinks that he/she is a failure. By watching what the body/mind does closely, it becomes obvious that something else--something unknown-- is directing what the body/mind does. Watching closely can sometimes help a person to see through the illusion of personal selfhood. On another thread I mentioned the strange case of Wayne Liquorman, who, suddenly, and without prior planning, ceased to be a hard-drinking alcoholic. Realizing that "he" had had nothing to do with had happened, he was precipitated into a spiritual search for understanding. Ramesh Balsekar ultimately helped him wake up. He is now a spiritual teacher in the Advaita tradition. zen, thanks for the reminder |
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Post by Charlie Gee on Jul 5, 2010 15:04:27 GMT -5
I don't know how to explain things either in non-dual terminology either, and frankly, find most attempts to do so clumsy and awkward. And yet, words are all we have. I know what I want to say but have no real way of saying it. I write poetry but that too is a weak expression of that which cannot be expressed. The longer I go on the more confusing it gets. So ....
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lobo
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Posts: 193
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Post by lobo on Jul 5, 2010 19:06:44 GMT -5
don't worry about the non-dual language thing
it can muck things up, better to stay with simple experience
So I have also experienced this a few times, but not with anything as big as you have Charlie.
Nonetheless, my main question is about noticing what changed.
It is like all of a sudden, you are different, the small you, the personal self that struggles suddenly has nothing to struggle against. The small "you" is different.
And in my experience, there is no looking back or support needed after that.
It is like, somehow something in the underlying belief system changed. I can't say I have noticed this, but this is what it seems like.
My main interest is in the dynamics of this kind of change.
Input from all who have experienced this is appreciated.
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Post by zendancer on Jul 5, 2010 19:42:08 GMT -5
Charlie: Fabulous poem! It brought me to tears. The pathos, the pathos..... We drown in an ocean of unending love.
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Post by charliegee on Jul 5, 2010 21:54:06 GMT -5
Burt ~ this is the biggest experience of this sort that ever happened to me. it seems to have triggered other changes as well. where b/4 I wanted to change how I felt, where I was and who I was now I just simply accept where I'm at without the slightest desire to alter it. there is a peace in all of this that I've searched for all my life and the normalcy of it all is simply incredible.
zendancer: thanks so much ... another 'side-effect' of this experience has been the abundance with which I have been writing. the drugs had stifled all creativity and feeling but now I must cry a couple of times a day and laugh much more than that. I really don't know hot to explain all of this in any other way than the way I'm doing now. I was blind but now I see kinda sums it up. whether 'I' is there or not is frankly no real concern of mine. thanks so much for your remarks about the poem, well ~ that choked me up a bit too. turning into the biggest wuss and loving every minute of it.
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Post by divinity on Jul 6, 2010 17:58:57 GMT -5
I kicked the nicotine habit by not smoking. I have no more desire. This was when cigarettes were 58 cents a pack. YOu can never TRY to stop a habit... you must simply stop doing it, or better still cultivate a healthier habit.
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Post by zendancer on Jul 6, 2010 19:45:25 GMT -5
I kicked the nicotine habit by not smoking. I have no more desire. This was when cigarettes were 58 cents a pack. YOu can never TRY to stop a habit... you must simply stop doing it, or better still cultivate a healthier habit. Divinity: "You" didn't kick the nicotine habit by not smoking. Oneness, manifesting as "your" body/mind, simply ceased to smoke. So far, It has chosen to remain smoke free. Not only can "you" never TRY to stop a habit, "you" can also not stop doing it, and "you" cannot cultivate a healthier habit either. Who we are is oneness doing whatever It does. This is the mystery of our being. The illusion is that a separate entity exists who can choose anything. Do "you" choose to think the thoughts that appear on the screen of consciousness? Of course not. Thoughts simply appear. When we identify with the thought of "me," we become lost in the funhouse. Of course, God has a great sense of humor, and it is obvious that She loves to play games with Herself. |
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lobo
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Posts: 193
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Post by lobo on Jul 7, 2010 9:13:49 GMT -5
zendancer- that is so hard for "me" to deal with at times lol
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Post by souley on Jul 7, 2010 10:09:37 GMT -5
zendancer- that is so hard for "me" to deal with at times lol Yes admitting the truth in that is the last thing one does. Literally:) |
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