Celebrating the Mystery

[lobo]

yes it is a mystery
way to go with finding examples and putting up such a nicely worded post

[synapticrythms]

This is a very interesting thread to me. There seems to be two sides to this Path. The one side is a clearing or a cleaning of the psychology of mind. The other is a dropping of mind altogether.

I am wondering if I am seeing the difference described in Jed McKenna's books about Human Adulthood vs. Enlightenment (clunker term). One does not necessarily remain on both Paths... I can see a point in which they split. Let me explain.

Human Adulthood would be the actualization within the dream of possibilities in the dream. This is the realm of miracles, wonders, and these are really a birthright of Consciousness taking form within a dream state. After all... what is not possible in a dream. The dream is a dream. The Human Adult is the lucid dreamer of the dream. This is the realm of the Law of Attraction, most works on New Age thought, demons and angels, in-the-flow living, etc. It is where fear is mostly dropped; the psychology of one's dream self is clean or mostly cleaned of violence, anger and angst; and the mind is fit for creation and play within the realm of Consciousness as children of God.

A clean mind is a beautiful thing. A wondrous world of play and beneficence is seen when the mind has dropped most of its filters. This is even where Unity Consciousness plays, for we are all one in truth; therefore, this is where the Cosmos is made, formed, danced with, and Conscious is lived.

The smut of the ego does not live here, because the "terrible" ego mindset of separation is not here. That does not mean that the ego is dead. It seems like to me that it is merely expanded to an almost Universal Ego. I may be wrong here, but wrong never killed anyone.

Enlightenment is Abiding Non-Dual Awareness. Beyond Consciousness itself, beyond "life" itself, it is the substrate of All That Is. It is the Awareness before or underlying Consciousness itself. Before the Word could be made flesh, there was merely Awareness. It seems to me that Consciousness itself is contained within or through (directions mean little here) the Awareness itself. The simple Awareness of awareness. Non-dual, never born, all-pervading awareness only. It can't be spoken of, because nothing exists here. It is a non-existent state of Awareness only. Not anything that could be anything could exist here; therefore the ego death is truly death. There is no one here. The dream is seen as a dream of Consciousness only and could never be returned to, because there is, as enigma said, no one to return.

The ego or body of the "enlightened being" would simply be a way to inhabit the dream and absolutely no importance could be attached to it, because there would be no one to attach any importance to. Consciousness itself is a show, a wonder to play out an eternal whatever, because what the h**l would you do with eternal Awareness except make shows.

Jed McKenna calls it an empty place called "Done" devoid of all meaning, because meaning comes when there is comparison or something to attach a meaning to. Unfathomable Awe would be the only thing I could ever place as a feeling on this state. I know that I know nothing about it, because it is something that I cannot comprehend... literally... "I" cannot comprehend it, because it is before the "I" of comprehension.

As attachment is dropped in Human Adulthood for the most part, the whole attaching/ identifying/ believing/ continuous thought apparatus is dropped in enlightenment. Even the Consciousness itself of these things is dropped. So how could there be anything to return to?

It is a useful model for me to contemplate, to do sanity checks on the little pieces of fluff that seem to want to distract me from my search. If it doesn't fit the "non-dual" then it doesn't serve the Path to the non-dual. I know that too it is only a model created by thought, which means it is as faulty as all the other thought based stuff.

[enigma]

Yeah, that reminded of what little I know of Dr David Hawkin's experience. As I recall, he spent a period of time homeless and living under a bridge and attending so poorly to his bodily needs that he likely wouldn't have survived if not for the assistance of his now wife. Even after his 'recovery' it was quite some time before he could re-integrate and speak coherently about his realization. He later referred to the body as a kind of "favorite pet". (I hope I've got that right. It's been a while since I took an interest in him.)

I also got the impression that, perhaps more often than we normally imagine, the body does not survive the depth of the Self realization. Obviously, the body requires some degree of attention, and sometimes there's just no interest in it at all. Of course, there are infinite variations on that theme. I don't know that I would place any of it in the category of choice.

[zendancer]

I agree. The truth is beyond either the idea of choice or the idea of no choice. I assume that when Lawton wrote about "choosing" to return to the play she meant it in the sense of "this is what happened." I don;t think she meant it in the sense of "I" chose to return to the play.

Ramana is one of the more extreme examples of someone who lost interest in the body. He obviously ate food and drank liquids during his long immersion in samadhi, but his legs stayed in contact with the ground so long that they significantly deteriorated, and it crippled him for life.

It seems to me that one of the main differences between householders and monks or reclusive full-time contemplatives is that householders have to interact with the world in complex ways requiring lots of thought and the non-householders are usually single and are supported by some sort of religious/spiritual system. It's easier to stay detached in a mountaintop cave with food provided by admiring followers than working for a living down in the hustle and bustle of the city. The whole thing is empty, but it's a fascinatin' show.

[synapticrythms]

Valerie Vener was asked once if she thought that there were enlightened beings that were criminal or violent. She said that she was almost sure that there was. She said that it would be terrible for them, but non-violence really had nothing to do with enlightenment.

That is an interesting side-note on Enlightenment, the way that I understand it, and Human Adulthood. I don't understand how a Human Adult could be of a criminal mindset or violent, because it seems almost that this state would anathema to the state of Human Adulthood. Yet, I look at Aleister Crowley, who obviously had some sort of deeper understanding and was able to manipulate the world around him in certain ways, and I wonder if even that is the case. I don't know if he was enlightened (it does not appear to be that way from his writings), but it is an interesting study anyway.

The deeper I move, the less the physical world seems real at all, and the more joy and peace are typically there underlying whatever seems to be going on with my emotions or thought levels. I just attach much less significance to them; therefore, the whole affect of my being is lighter, less prone to any type of anger or outrage, etc. Just because I don't understand how the other could be, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

Weird stuff. I tell people sometimes that the spiritual journey is not about self-betterment (like a 12-step program); it is about Truth and the accompanying freedom from the tyranny of time, thought, and identification. The self-betterment comes from understanding, I suppose. Yet, if some body/mind structure is not built that way, they are not built that way. It has no bearing on their ability to be enlightened.

The Tao does state that the Two endures in good people, but that which is everything cannot simply not be there in everything, which means good and bad, holy and unholy are all within the dream.

[peanut]

Not sure this is the thread to add or question this but here goes. Have had a handful of unity consciousness experiences as well as profound insights into the nature of reality. However, there has not been a Final Realization. The question is...it sounds like the people mentioned above like Bob and Tolle have had spontaneous realizations. They weren't trying to make something happen. If that is the case then there is nothing more for "me" to do is there? Have spent years on the cushion as well as studying with a teacher and going to retreats etc...yet no Final Realization??

[zendancer]

Jun 24, 2010 14:22:29 GMT -5 peanut said:

Not sure this is the thread to add or question this but here goes. Have had a handful of unity consciousness experiences as well as profound insights into the nature of reality. However, there has not been a Final Realization. The question is...it sounds like the people mentioned above like Bob and Tolle have had spontaneous realizations. They weren't trying to make something happen. If that is the case then there is nothing more for "me" to do is there? Have spent years on the cushion as well as studying with a teacher and going to retreats etc...yet no Final Realization??

Great question, and the answer is both yes and no. LOL. "No," in the sense that there is no "Peanut" who has ever done anything. "Yes," in the sense that this is how the mystery unfolds. Continuing to keep attention upon "what is" seems to eventually dissolve the separation between "inside" and "outside." Most of the accounts I have read by people describing their attainment of "satori" (the embodied realization that personal selfhood does not exist) indicate that the final breakthrough was not a "bells and whistles" type of thing. It was more like, "Well, I'll be darned; how did I not see this before?"

I think we can assume that the structure of "me" is one of the deepest structures of mind and forms at a very early age (probably as soon as parents start encouraging children to distinguish themselves with a name). Consequently, it is one of the last structures of mind to collapse under the pressure of direct perception.

The average person reinforces the idea of selfhood incessantly through their habits of thought. All day long they think "I, My, Me, and Mine." As we leave thoughts behind and begin to spend more time like little children (directly perceiving and interacting with reality), we spend less and less time reinforcing the illusion of selfhood. Eventually, who we are sees through the illusion.

Supposedly the Buddha once said that anyone who could stop thinking for seven days would wake up. I don;t know if he said that or not, but I suspect that seven days of non-stop samadhi might very well do the trick. LOL. This is why I emphasize the importance of changing one's habits of mind. In a sixteen hour day how much time does one spend in direct perception compared to reflective thought? Five minutes? Twenty minutes? Whatever it is, it isn't very long.

Another thing I tell people is that it takes intention and effort to change one's habits of mind. It is not a passive thing. Someone once asked me if watching TV without thinking is the same thing as what I'm calling "non-conceptual awareness?" I don't think so. If that were true, then we'd have millions of enlightened Americans. LOL. When someone first begins trying to shift from thoughts to non-conceptual awareness, it is hard to even remember to make the effort. This is why I once put reminder notes throughout my office, home, and vehicles--to remind me to check on what the mind was doing (it was always thinking!) so that I could shift from thoughts to direct perception. The mystery is why some people make the effort. Regardless of what happens, it has nothing to do with any imagined entity, but I think you already know that. In short, stay present and resolve to stay present until the illusion dissolves. Cheers.

[peanut]

Thank you Zendancer...for some reason right now there is great motivation with a strong intention and am making an active effort Didn't have this kind of motivation even a couple of years ago. Do have a reminder that helps me return to non-conceptual awareness. So....yes no doubt that am staying with this until the illusion dissolves. The encouragement is most helpful as is this forum in general. Interesting and yes a mystery that am making the effort...my friends certainly question my sanity haha Can you tell patience is not a strong suit???

[synapticrythms]

Peanut, if your friends are questioning your sanity, you are probably on the right track. I know I question mine daily.

[peanut]

synapticrythms....hahahahahaha feel so much better now lol

[souley]

Jun 26, 2010 10:45:07 GMT -5 synapticrythms said:

Peanut, if your friends are questioning your sanity, you are probably on the right track. I know I question mine daily.

Jun 28, 2010 19:00:06 GMT -5 peanut said:

synapticrythms....hahahahahaha feel so much better now lol

So do I ;D Don't worry though, you're not any more insane then everyone else.

I got to a stage where it seems the walls of my mind broke down, and the world changed forever. I was afraid I was insane, but then again, I knew I wasn't. I was just scared nuts . But it's easy to be afraid of such a thing, when you can see no other explanations, and no explanations are to be had.

[lobo]

I like the positiveness of this thread

[Teetown]

Zen Dancer,

Regarding Freya Lawton, Franklin Merrell Wolff reported a similar "choice" being presented to him and said he chose to continue the human existence to spread the good word.