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Post by commiejesus on Dec 4, 2008 12:36:50 GMT -5
This is the current question I am meditating on lately.....
It seems to me that since we create our reality with the desires, and thoughts in our mind and heart, interacting people daily like I do poses some interesting and mind boggling questions.
If my reality is playing Casino WAR (50-50 chance) with my customer and I win because of my frame of mind or the client is loosing because his frame of mind. Where is the line of demarcation of our joint experience? Or is there a line? Maybe it is the mix of both of our "reality"? His reality is how he views me, with the desire(GREED) to win (or lose), being scared for his money, petrified that his wife will kill him as he is losing next months mortgage, OR he loses just because I am relaxed, and think of a winner, no desired for the money only the intellectual curiosity of the outcome.
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Post by Peter on Dec 5, 2008 11:22:02 GMT -5
It seems to me that since we create our reality with the desires, and thoughts in our mind and heart, interacting people daily like I do poses some interesting and mind boggling questions. Well let me stop you RIGHT there with an assumption flag! What makes you think we create our reality? Just because Oprah recommends a book doesn't make it True.  The Brits are often guilty of moments of Schadenfreude, and an example of that is when an American athlete is beaten at some event and they can't believe it. Their thoughts, their desire, their hearts were 100% convinced that they were going to win. Winner's mind, total focus. They pictured their victory, believed in it heart and soul, and yet it didn't happen. Did they lose because the other guy believed they were going to win more? No, quite often the other guy is just as surprised to have won. It's just that on the day, the other guy was faster. What created that reality? His reality is how he views me, with the desire(GREED) to win (or lose), being scared for his money, petrified that his wife will kill him as he is losing next months mortgage, OR he loses just because I am relaxed, and think of a winner, no desired for the money only the intellectual curiosity of the outcome. I think it's safer to say that his "experience" is one of fear, because then you're not in danger of confusing anyone's personal reality (ie their experience of a situation) with capital-R Reality ie what the objective situation actually is. So in the case of the losing athlete, the wider the gap between your personal view of reality and the Real Reality of the situation, the more painful it's going to be when it's just not possible to sustain that artificial reality any more. It's a dangerous place to be, the athlete is making choices on what they want to be true, rather than what is True. As I see it, what you "want" or what you "decide to do" is basically a vote. You can register your desire with the Universe and it'll nod and say "Yes Dear, we'll see". There are many other votes being cast. You might have some subconscious self sabotage thing going on, your habitual behaviours have a vote, your current situation has a vote (no point in asking to be Miss World if you're Quasimodo), and - as you've identified - your votes have to play against the votes of everyone else involved. The trump card (enjoying the casino metaphor!) is held by Karma because the Karmic Lessons we have to learn (again as I see it) take precedence over all other votes. If your opponent needs to learn a lesson about gambling money he can't afford, then you can be sure that Fate will arrange for that lesson to be learned regardless of what you or he might want and believe. Or he might win and instead learn a lesson about generosity, or friendship. And of course, someone or something is protecting the laws of physics. If you were to do a study and somehow measure everyone's Desire and "Belief" that the were going to win, then I'm sure you'd find that the outcome was entirely random and had no correlation to anyone's expectations. Lady Luck always plays by the rules when there's a statistician around. Where is the line of demarcation of our joint experience? Or is there a line? Maybe it is the mix of both of our "reality"? I had a glimpse of the answer to this question and it was mind blowing. The complex tapestry involved, the potential for keeping the contents of Schrödinger's box in flux until it's opened, it's awesome. You're looking at this situation in isolation, like the starting conditions are you and this guy playing this game. But that's not how it is, the fact that you chose to walk into that casino on that day at that time and choose that game at that table with that amount of money, choosing that square to place your bet on... Then the other guy has the same set of 'decisions' to make (or are they made for him? God whispers in the ear of a Butterfly and causes/prevents a hurricane) ...deep breath... and so you, this guy, this game and the outcome all come about together to serve the karmic lessons of all concerned. That's what's I'm finding mind blowing - being able to see everything that is, was and will be, God (or whatever sets up the situations to allow Karmic lessons to be learned) needs no significant 'Power' in the sense of being able to bend/break the laws of physics because he can tweak at the quantum level and bring about any situation that might be required. And it doesn't need to happen that day, the motion of those wheels could be affected a thousand years ago - as long as nothing is changed that has been consciously observed. Or perhaps it does get changed - that's the tricky thing with time travel, you never can tell what might have been changed. I left work last night to find my bike had a flat tire. I thought to myself "Hmm, it's a bit icy this evening, perhaps the Universe has just saved me from getting a broken arm..." |
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Post by lightmystic on Dec 5, 2008 13:32:25 GMT -5
Well said Peter. I like what you're saying.
It's also interesting for me to notice that life is giving me what will help me fulfill my desires. Like everyone else, I'm built for my function here, and so my needs and desires are in accord for what I'm built for (as a personality). So life is always there to help us be fulfilled, but that means actual fulfillment, not some IDEA of what that fulfillment is going to be or "should" look like, or what we THINK it is. We can try to force life to give us what we think we want, but it will ultimately end up giving us exactly what we need to have what we actually want in a permanent way.
We're losing the illusion of control over time, because we never had it to begin with. Scary thought, but it's the most freeing thing I've ever encountered. And it's literally true. We are being run by our minds, habits, desires, etc.. We cannot do otherwise. Even if we "try" to do otherwise, that is our mind deciding that it would be fulfilled by thinking it can be free and so even that is just the natural desire of the combination of programs that we are. That doesn't invalidate life, but only because we ARE life. It's like think you're a finger on the body of the Infinite and the finger thinks it does things. It's all being done by the Infinite body, who is actually who you are anyway. That's why it's not a coincidence that the finger grabs the food in order to bring them to the mouth.
We go "wow!" how could all those fingers spontaneously work together and happen to bring the food to the mouth just because the unrelated stomach told the unrelated brain that it was hungry? That's unfathomable!
While it is unfathomable in the sense that it cannot be predicted, it was natural. The "parts" of the Infinite Being are not unrelated, and the Infinite Being was hungry. Simple, although I can't physiologically map out the dynamics of my own personal body's eating, at least not exactly. So it's really not a surprise that we cannot map the infinite. Can a finger "figure out" the tuning in of the body? No, but it can just "feel" it, and act happily in accord.
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Post by commiejesus on Dec 5, 2008 15:07:01 GMT -5
Dear Peter and LM,
Sorcery by power of mind is integral part of my belief system, as much as Karma and Reincarnation and the non-duality paradigms which I hold dear.
The exception is with said other paradigms - I have been experiencing the power of mind and sorcery of it firsthand by practicing right hand sorcery every day.
Cheers
Andras
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Post by lightmystic on Dec 5, 2008 18:21:23 GMT -5
Yeah, that's the inherent problem. It's not that you're wrong, it's just that it seems to be heading off in an "improving the dream" direction instead of "waking up from it." Here's the thing: If you are the Infinite Presence (and lets say that you are for right now  ), then the only thing that could be in the way of your desire is the individual person "controlling" the situation by trying to grab on to whatever is desired. This grabbing action cuts off the bringing of the infinite flow of Your energy into the Relative and so the Infinite energy cannot be at your disposal. By stating the intention that is desired, and letting it go so your Infinite energy can flow through you, that energy becomes available to make it happen. That is why being calm and at peace ceases to restrict the flow of energy and produces the desired results. On the other hand, if one is nervous and worried and freaking out, these are all signs of resistance, which cuts off the flow. That is why you would be more effective in the scenario you described. Does that make sense? Dear Peter and LM, Sorcery by power of mind is integral part of my belief system, as much as Karma and Reincarnation and the non-duality paradigms which I hold dear. The exception is with said other paradigms - I have been experiencing the power of mind and sorcery of it firsthand by practicing right hand sorcery every day. Cheers Andras |
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Post by commiejesus on Dec 5, 2008 18:29:36 GMT -5
LM, I bet a dollar for a doughnut that you are following the "Course in Miracles".... Am I wrong? Of course, all these "things" are not part of "reality", only in a dualistic sense...HOWEVER, we must live in the mudane and these things are empowering to a great deal... CJ Yeah, that's the inherent problem. It's not that you're wrong, it's just that it seems to be heading off in an "improving the dream" direction instead of "waking up from it." Here's the thing: If you are the Infinite Presence (and lets say that you are for right now ), then the only thing that could be in the way of your desire is the individual person "controlling" the situation by trying to grab on to whatever is desired. This grabbing action cuts off the bringing of the infinite flow of Your energy into the Relative and so the Infinite energy cannot be at your disposal. By stating the intention that is desired, and letting it go so your Infinite energy can flow through you, that energy becomes available to make it happen. That is why being calm and at peace ceases to restrict the flow of energy and produces the desired results. On the other hand, if one is nervous and worried and freaking out, these are all signs of resistance, which cuts off the flow. That is why you would be more effective in the scenario you described. Does that make sense? Dear Peter and LM, Sorcery by power of mind is integral part of my belief system, as much as Karma and Reincarnation and the non-duality paradigms which I hold dear. The exception is with said other paradigms - I have been experiencing the power of mind and sorcery of it firsthand by practicing right hand sorcery every day. Cheers Andras |
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Post by lightmystic on Dec 6, 2008 12:11:13 GMT -5
Hehe, I don't remember reading that in A Course in Miracles (I read about a fifth of it a long time ago), but it's pretty complete so I'm sure it's in there. I could name a least a dozen other books that say the same thing though, because it's true. I first heard the idea of talking about it as the "dream world" in Jed McKenna's series. That analogy works pretty well for me in a lot of ways. It's a good illustrator. The only things that I remember from ACIM are 1.) an excellent way to let go of guilt and 2.) the nature of how, before we recognize the reality of the situation, things are always 180 degrees different than we think, because we are acting as limited individuals when we're not. Nothing else comes to mind.... LM, I bet a dollar for a doughnut that you are following the "Course in Miracles".... Am I wrong? Of course, all these "things" are not part of "reality", only in a dualistic sense...HOWEVER, we must live in the mudane and these things are empowering to a great deal... CJ Yeah, that's the inherent problem. It's not that you're wrong, it's just that it seems to be heading off in an "improving the dream" direction instead of "waking up from it." Here's the thing: If you are the Infinite Presence (and lets say that you are for right now ), then the only thing that could be in the way of your desire is the individual person "controlling" the situation by trying to grab on to whatever is desired. This grabbing action cuts off the bringing of the infinite flow of Your energy into the Relative and so the Infinite energy cannot be at your disposal. By stating the intention that is desired, and letting it go so your Infinite energy can flow through you, that energy becomes available to make it happen. That is why being calm and at peace ceases to restrict the flow of energy and produces the desired results. On the other hand, if one is nervous and worried and freaking out, these are all signs of resistance, which cuts off the flow. That is why you would be more effective in the scenario you described. Does that make sense? |
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Post by Peter on Dec 6, 2008 17:01:35 GMT -5
I have been experiencing the power of mind and sorcery of it firsthand by practicing right hand sorcery every day. Well now, I don't think I've spoken to anyone who claimed to be practicing sorcery before! The thing that comes to (my) mind when someone says sorcery is that it's about consciously making things to be what you 'want'. Is that the case? If so, what is it that you want? Can you give an example of some outcome that you've 'intended' which has come about? Were you at all scientific about it - was there a 'control' ? I wasn't sure what you meant by "right hand sorcery", so I did a google search and found this article which I found interesting, but it seemed to suggest that Dissolving the Ego was a Right Hand Path, whereas Sorcery was a Left Hand Path. strategicsorcery.blogspot.com/2008/08/left-hand-path-right-hand-path-false.htmlCan you help clarify the terms being used here? Cheers, Peter |
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Post by commiejesus on Dec 7, 2008 0:14:40 GMT -5
Peter, As far as I know sorcery can be right hand and left hand. I have been experiencing the power of mind and sorcery of it firsthand by practicing right hand sorcery every day. Well now, I don't think I've spoken to anyone who claimed to be practicing sorcery before! The thing that comes to (my) mind when someone says sorcery is that it's about consciously making things to be what you 'want'. Is that the case? If so, what is it that you want? Can you give an example of some outcome that you've 'intended' which has come about? Were you at all scientific about it - was there a 'control' ? I wasn't sure what you meant by "right hand sorcery", so I did a google search and found this article which I found interesting, but it seemed to suggest that Dissolving the Ego was a Right Hand Path, whereas Sorcery was a Left Hand Path. strategicsorcery.blogspot.com/2008/08/left-hand-path-right-hand-path-false.htmlCan you help clarify the terms being used here? Cheers, Peter |
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Post by Peter on Dec 7, 2008 3:50:10 GMT -5
Peter, As far as I know sorcery can be right hand and left hand. Ok, what's the difference between them? [Phew, managed to write a short posting for a change!] |
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sophia
Full Member
...the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. ~Plato
Posts: 146
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Post by sophia on Dec 7, 2008 5:01:22 GMT -5
Ambidextrous sorcery!
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sophia
Full Member
...the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. ~Plato
Posts: 146
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Post by sophia on Dec 7, 2008 12:34:47 GMT -5
Morrie smited me for that statement.
Morrie, who came in here touting Peace Pilgrim.
My only point in bringing this up is to show the hypocrisy that is sometimes evident in some who consider themselves "spiritual".
This is the exact reason I left Christianity when I was younger, because I saw how some "devout" Christians who were supposed to espouse love instead only judged others or were close minded.
So Morrie doesn't like one of my stupid jokes - that is on him. I am sure everyone has seen somewhere in their spiritual studies that one should not take themselves too seriously in the spiritual life. What fun would there be in pursuing growth if we could not bring humor to this educational adventure we're on called "Life"?
I hope for Morrie - and for others who are tempted to take Life too seriously - that he can find the lightheartedness that is also a part of our time here as human beings. And that it's just not cool to punish someone for making a stupid joke.
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Post by commiejesus on Dec 8, 2008 1:03:59 GMT -5
There are on the opposite end of the grayscale....Yin and Yang..separate yet one..." There are two forces, each having seven streams, and they again seven times seven, and so on downward unto an infinity of numbers. They are right- and left-hand—positive and negative—light and darkness—good and evil. Each has many names and many attributes, and in the ultimate the two are one; though not yet, nor for many eons, is their oneness manifested, and until then they are opposites. Their oneness is an occult secret, difficult to understand, and it is madness for the choosers of the left-hand force to meditate their treacheries when the star of the right-hand force is in the ascendent." FRAGMENT FROM THE DIARY OF OLYMPUS. The forces and principles used for either right or left hand are one, yet the results and karmic consequances are quite different... Peter, As far as I know sorcery can be right hand and left hand. Ok, what's the difference between them? [Phew, managed to write a short posting for a change!]
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Post by Peter on Dec 8, 2008 7:52:59 GMT -5
So by "Right Hand" sorcery, you're saying it's "Good" sorcery, or sorcery "with a postitive outcome as the intended result", yes?
Does anyone actually own up to practicing "Evil" sorcery - or evil anything for that matter? The road to hell is paved with Good Intentions, so they say. I think everyone thinks they're doing the "Right" thing. Eugenics is an obvious example of this.
A more obvious division of intention as I see it, would be between Acting in the interests of Self and Acting in the Interests of Others.
So in danger of repeating myself: Can you give an example of some outcome that you've 'intended' which has come about?
Thanks,
Peter
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Post by commiejesus on Dec 8, 2008 8:54:02 GMT -5
The best example is Hitler and the occult interest of the Third Reich. There are volumes written on this, youtube videos made etc. (even I addressed it in my book, as I feel it is the archetype of the "left hand" gone awry.... I hope this shows you a direction... Cheers Andras So by "Right Hand" sorcery, you're saying it's "Good" sorcery, or sorcery "with a postitive outcome as the intended result", yes? Does anyone actually own up to practicing "Evil" sorcery - or evil anything for that matter? The road to hell is paved with Good Intentions, so they say. I think everyone thinks they're doing the "Right" thing. Eugenics is an obvious example of this. A more obvious division of intention as I see it, would be between Acting in the interests of Self and Acting in the Interests of Others. So in danger of repeating myself: Can you give an example of some outcome that you've 'intended' which has come about? Thanks, Peter |
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), then the only thing that could be in the way of your desire is the individual person "controlling" the situation by trying to grab on to whatever is desired. This grabbing action cuts off the bringing of the infinite flow of Your energy into the Relative and so the Infinite energy cannot be at your disposal. By stating the intention that is desired, and letting it go so your Infinite energy can flow through you, that energy becomes available to make it happen. That is why being calm and at peace ceases to restrict the flow of energy and produces the desired results. On the other hand, if one is nervous and worried and freaking out, these are all signs of resistance, which cuts off the flow. That is why you would be more effective in the scenario you described. Does that make sense?