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Post by karen on May 22, 2010 12:28:30 GMT -5
Attention seems like a very strange power. It seems to be the only thing I can do is shift attention. And even that, I can only do when I can do it.
I've often thought of attention as an unmanned, out of control fire hose flailing about in one direction or another seemingly based on interest, desire, or fear.
The only way to tame it it seems is to find a center to place it that is familiar in all situations and moods - something that does not change.
Things change and things we know change and the certainty of how we know changes. But there's one thing that doesn't change in my experience: the certainty of my being. Not some fancy "spiritual being", but plain ol' run-of-the-mill being. That has always been in my experience, and it seems to be the best place to rest my attention.
It takes a bit on interest to coax attention there. It seems to take effort to put attention there such that it becomes some-what automatic later. It's a very subtle thing: the fact of being.
But as time has gone on practicing putting attention of being, the more I can put my attention there when things are distressful. And that seems to make this place more interesting - or I should say it makes it more attractive than some seemingly pointless practice. There's a payoff - an escape to the present worry.
And it seems to be the best of all the practices I've done - the best of meditation: focusing of attention on one thing, but also it seems like the core of self-inquiry possibly.
Well that's my experience in the last few weeks.
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Post by enigma on May 22, 2010 18:54:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I can identify with that. What occurred to me is that I'm not the one expending effort to place my attention there. I'm the attention itself and attending is fundamentally effortless. The appearance of effort is the mind laying claim to the placing of attention, or rather attention claiming that it's mind that is attending, while actually 'mind' is one of the places attention goes.
The actual function is not a practice at all, but a noticing (attention) that there is less interest in attending to mind and more in attending to attention. This noticing precedes the declaration of a practice of mind, and the effort is declared to reinforce the notion that mind is the author.
Though it may seem that you (however you define that) can shift attention, actually you cannot. The expression of the intelligence that you are is quite spontaneous, even at that most subtle level. I sometimes refer to this as innocence. You are so deeply and wonderfully innocent that your attention simply lands where it is drawn; absolutely fearless and unconcerned as to the implications of the movement of this boundless force of creation. God is a child playing with universes instead of blocks.
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Post by karen on May 25, 2010 22:25:12 GMT -5
I understand what you write, but have not noticed this to be the case with me. I would certainly like to. It's very tiresome - this efforting thing. Especially if it's all for nothing.
You might not think it important, but we've heard about ZD's history as well as LM. Care to share a brief history of your seeking and finding?
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Post by enigma on May 26, 2010 2:50:38 GMT -5
Thanks for your interest, Karen. I really admire your dedication to Truth. It's very rare.  |
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Post by WimDeVos on May 26, 2010 6:30:19 GMT -5
Hi all, very helpful reports/descriptions for me as a "newbie"! I can only hope I'm getting this all right, am doing it right... I'll probably make some wrong turns along the path...
I also just started doing this self-inquiry/looking at yourself/attention exercise (according John Sherman's teaching of Vichara; thanks to Karen for getting me in touch with his material)...
As I'm practising his teaching, while focussing on this "attention" Karen is talking about (at least I hope?), I was wondering... It feels like staying (as frequently as possible) in the conscious state of "mind" (or rather "being" actually to be correct). So, without attaching a goal to the looking or the intention in itself, I presume the exercise should ultimately lead to a staying in a continuous state of consciousness, to attention as an acquainted "habit", as the only way of "being" ? Am I getting this right ? If so, then three questions popped up...
1) Is that humanly possible to stay in this conscious "state" of being 24/7 ?
2) Wouldn't one just be "hiding" the 95% of subconscious "behaviour" (including the beliefs & convictions, good or bad, nor good nor bad) ? Making it "a well, a source" that could possibly errupt when the conscious state of being would fail to control (for just a second) in any given circumstance ?
3) Wouldn't putting this much attention on a conscious way of living also hold a danger in itself ? For example, because of 'slower' reaction times to a potential dangerous circumstance, as where normally the "body/mind" combination would have handled very quickly in an unconscious way ?
I trully hope I'm getting the practising right... Thanks for clarrifying what this attention really is, and where it should ultimately lead to...
br, Wim
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Post by enigma on May 26, 2010 12:54:45 GMT -5
"2) Wouldn't one just be "hiding" the 95% of subconscious "behaviour" (including the beliefs & convictions, good or bad, nor good nor bad) ? Making it "a well, a source" that could possibly errupt when the conscious state of being would fail to control (for just a second) in any given circumstance ?"
Yes. In fact you could probably 'take that to the bank'. Your 'function' as awareness itself is to simply be aware. I usually call this 'noticing', and while it may seem to require effort because effort to not notice is already present, the noticing itself is effortless. You cannot do, control or become because you are not a doer, controller or be-comer. You cannot even undo or unlearn, but you can notice the futility of trying to undo and the obscuring nature of knowledge. In this noticing, which is a noticing of what is not so, mind will be undone.
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Post by divinity on May 26, 2010 16:58:48 GMT -5
How do you know if you got it "right"? Do you compare what you think and feel with other people or do you pay attention to your personal gut GPS? I think we all know when we get it "right" for ourselves regardless what is "right" for anyone else.
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Post by karen on May 26, 2010 21:31:44 GMT -5
Thanks for your interest, Karen. I really admire your dedication to Truth. It's very rare. Thanks for the props! It took a little over 3 years of blowing smoke up my as$ before I figured out I had to really be honest with myself. |
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Post by karen on May 26, 2010 22:06:01 GMT -5
I will have to give an unenigmatic answer since it still feels like doing. Hi all, very helpful reports/descriptions for me as a "newbie"! I can only hope I'm getting this all right, am doing it right... I'll probably make some wrong turns along the path... The biggest "wrong turns" I've made were of getting discouraged and trying something else - to look for a magic bullet - to collect teachings - the try to quit and escape with food or TV or alcohol, etc.. But this was more of a process rather than wrong turns. That stuff needed to be burned out it seems, and one needs to find a practice or non-practice they are comfortable with As I'm practising his teaching, while focussing on this "attention" Karen is talking about (at least I hope?), I was wondering... It feels like staying (as frequently as possible) in the conscious state of "mind" (or rather "being" actually to be correct). So, without attaching a goal to the looking or the intention in itself, I presume the exercise should ultimately lead to a staying in a continuous state of consciousness, to attention as an acquainted "habit", as the only way of "being" ? Am I getting this right ? If so, then three questions popped up... If I were to speculate on the process - that for me it seems like the looking itself has merit in its own-right. I have suffered from recurring painful memories, and the looking is a great place to rest my attention when these come up. But it's also a great place to rest my attention whenever anything else comes up. When I do it, it feels slightly pleasant and definitely feels peaceful. It sort of feels like falling. But sometimes my mind will play tricks on me and try to simulate this looking. When this happens, I can't be sure if I'm doing it right. But when I do it right - there is no question I am doing it right. Maybe right is a too black and white term since like John claims: it's the looking that does the work. I can't know this for sure. It feels to me that looking with wrapped attention on the me-ness of what I see around me with my mind on nothing else - this is like rocket fuel. 1) Is that humanly possible to stay in this conscious "state" of being 24/7 ? I intend to find out. 2) Wouldn't one just be "hiding" the 95% of subconscious "behaviour" (including the beliefs & convictions, good or bad, nor good nor bad) ? Making it "a well, a source" that could possibly errupt when the conscious state of being would fail to control (for just a second) in any given circumstance ? Are you speaking of repression? I've been repressing all my life. This is much different. It's allowing without fueling. 3) Wouldn't putting this much attention on a conscious way of living also hold a danger in itself ? For example, because of 'slower' reaction times to a potential dangerous circumstance, as where normally the "body/mind" combination would have handled very quickly in an unconscious way ? When doing the looking, it's probably best policy to not use heavy machinery - at least to be safe. I take many opportunities to look while in safe and boring places - bathroom, shower, drifting off to sleep in bed, etc.. But I can tell you if the mind were to just be there at the ready rather than continuously working on imaginary problems I would be much more responsive in case of danger. I trully hope I'm getting the practising right... Thanks for clarrifying what this attention really is, and where it should ultimately lead to... The proof is in the pudding. I'm not sure where it's going to lead. But I have noticed a reduction in fear. The same situations arise, and I still think the same thoughts, but I identify a lot less. This looking works! At least it seems to work, and that's enough for me to continue. |
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Post by karen on May 26, 2010 22:13:19 GMT -5
How do you know if you got it "right"? Do you compare what you think and feel with other people or do you pay attention to your personal gut GPS? I think we all know when we get it "right" for ourselves regardless what is "right" for anyone else. With me, it's definitely not comparing with others. My personal GPS (nice term BTW) is the lessening of negative features. I've had social phobia's for decades now, and I can tell that is diminishing in a noticeable way. I've become very tired of being afraid. That's my GPS - the fear factor. |
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Post by enigma on May 26, 2010 23:03:58 GMT -5
I'm sure I've used this analogy before, but it seems to me that the warrior has to lose interest in the battle and walk off the battlefield. Since it is neither a victory nor a volitional surrender, mind will often not even notice it has walked away until much later, and perhaps not notice at all.
For example, there may come a time when drama is neither pursued nor avoided, or ego is neither improved nor accepted. It's just that there is no longer an interest in either one, and this is the mind walking away. When it does, it no longer has a calibrated measuring stick for it's 'progress'. Progress, in this case, means losing interest in progressing, and so I sometimes say mind is the last to know that progress has been made.
The idea is to come empty to every encounter. This emptiness is full of 'something' else.
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Post by divinity on Jun 4, 2010 16:11:09 GMT -5
Karen, your gut will never steer you wrong. That's why we hear people say so often "this doesn't feel right". Society teaches us to "go beyond our fear", but that can have disastrous results. I think finding your center and then finding quick ways to get back to center, and I think that works for most of us. It seems to be very personal, this "centering".
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Post by enigma on Jun 4, 2010 23:25:38 GMT -5
What some folks refer to as a gut feeling is actually an unconscious fear or need.
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Post by karen on Jun 4, 2010 23:40:27 GMT -5
I think you're right enigma. The gut is a great consultant to follow for one's physical safety but not on this path.
But there is an inner resonation with truth (maybe what divinity meant) when I hear it/feel/intuit it. When I'm not sure, I'm not sure. But when I am, I am. Like in the same way when in a dream I can wonder if I'm in a dream or not: but when in the waking state there is never any question about not dreaming a sleep dream.
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Post by enigma on Jun 5, 2010 0:45:49 GMT -5
Yes, i 'resonate' with that completely. To me, this is clarity/seeing/knowing/intuition/realization. It occurs 'beyond' mind and is not subject to mind's inherent doubt. Interestingly, it's not really the knowing of 'something'.
I do understand precognition, but for me this has always been close to mind and subject to doubt, and not always correct.
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