Afraid to reach enlightenment

[karen]

BTW, I found U.G. to be of great value ripping away my beliefs. He's not too comforting though!

For a far less scary way, look at the link in my signature line. He's very comforting.

[klaus]

May 17, 2010 16:16:23 GMT -5 @WimDeVos said:

I'd say my ego fears... because it's the one that's being attacked & "put out of order" ?

Hi wdv,

Ego is a construct of the mind and mind is not permanent. What you fear is the idea of the death of the mind and where does this idea originate? The mind.

Is your mind of yesterday the same mind you have today? Look for the mind of yesterday, where is it?

[ethereal]

I've also recently discovered Jed Mckenna's books, read the first one and loved it

I think, because I have had some experience on the path already, and I've made the strong connection in my mind between ego/self and suffering (no self, no "one" to suffer), there wasn't really much fear when applying the practices and questioning my beliefs about reality. At least, not yet Maybe when I reach the void and feel myself dying, that could get scary real fast. But the way I see it is basically the more "you" that is left, the more suffering that "you" will experience. So who cares what happens to the false self?

As Buddha said, enlightenment is the cessation of suffering. I don't know if you can reach enlightenment and wish to go back, that seems pretty far-fetched to me. If it is just a low-stage of enlightenment with just the dry detached knowledge or Jnana, without the love/bliss or Bhakti, then maybe. Just maybe. Even the knowledge itself should be freeing. But if you are feeling the love and bliss, I don't see how anyone can refuse that And even states of bliss are states of suffering in comparison to even higher states and to final liberation. In Buddhism they talk about people who reach a state of bliss and get attached to it and are not motivated to continue on further. Bliss is already infinitely better than whatever normal range of experience that egos have, and even bliss is suffering compared to liberation. So don't worry about reaching enlightenment and wanting to go back, I don't think that will be an issue

I highly recommend allowing Mckenna's insights to destroy your belief systems, especially about spirituality. His practices of spiritual autolysis and just questioning "what do I know with absolute certainty?" works wonders.

And finally, I'll leave you with a saying from Zen that will help you a lot:
"All fear is illusion. Walk straight through."

[synapticrythms]

WDV,

The Jed McKenna books were what started the cascading effect for me as well. I can only say that the beginning is not like the middle... and I have no idea if there is an end. Like Karen, I rediscovered my joy after the whole question of meaninglessness had been turned around in my head for a good nine months. I think the closest I came to suicide was right before I discovered how I created my own misery through creating a huge whopping miserable state for myself. When I saw the whole ego game, I thought I would burst with gratitude.

Hold onto another thing that Jed McKenna says in his books, "There is nothing to know, nothing to do, and nothing to attain." I think it is in the third book at the very beginning of the book. It provided great comfort when I finally "relaxed" and had a download from the Universe of forgiveness and my first extended experience of divine Love.

The best thing about it... It's all OK... It will always be OK... and there is always joy once whatever you are carrying is dropped.

[enigma]

May 17, 2010 16:16:23 GMT -5 @WimDeVos said:

I'd say my ego fears... because it's the one that's being attacked & "put out of order" ?

So, it can be very helpful to notice you don't have an ego thingy. What is being objectified is a belief in the self, so what you're really saying is 'my belief that there is somebody to be scared is being attacked.'
:::Picturing a belief shaking in it's boots:::::

[oz]

Consider the notion of being enlightened and selfish at the same time. It may seem oxymoronic, but in the process of becoming more enlightened you gain greater choice. You come off of automatic and have to be present to make choices. The choices can be about anything including things for you. Enlightened people still have to take a sh*t, but they can choose whether or not they want wipe their a**.

As the old saying goes:

Before enlightenment: Chop wood, carry water
After enlightenment: Chop wood, carry water

[enigma]

There are no enlightened people, and nobody ever acquires the ability to choose.

[zendancer]

Precisely!

[oz]

Just as believing is seeing, one must entertain a possibility before it can become a reality. But this is for you to decide, the choice is yours!

[enigma]

What I'm looking at now is odd to see and no doubt odderer to hear, but it's clear. All of creation is the most delicate glass egg precariously perched on the head of a pin. For one being in the world to acquire sovereignty could well mark the end of human civilization. This is the consequence of throwing a monkey wrench into the fully integrated unfolding of infinite potential, but fortunately it's not possible. The entire universe is forming NOW. Truuuust me, you don't want to be in charge of the logistics. Hehe.

[oza]

Great point enigma. The entire universe is... (I prefer evolving) now! God is evolving now! Whether that evolution takes place through you with every one of your unique experiences while you are asleep or wide awake as a conscious chooser of each moment makes no difference to the evolutionary process. God/Universe continues to unfold and expand. The question remains do you choose to remain on automatic (asleep) or wake up (be present to the now). Both choices have a consequence, carry a burden, and require effort.

[divinity]

I think life has everything to do with our concepts and beliefs about it all. What else is "reality" if not our perceptions? I think fear of enlightenment is fear of the physical mechanism dying, and not knowing what's next, or if there is a next.