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Post by laughter on Oct 15, 2024 10:35:23 GMT -5
Yes. Of course, you are right. I was just offering the gears the monkey wrench of an infinite recursion. Sorta' like in the old days.  We would probably end up discussing the subtle similarities between Alignment and Dharma if we were back there. Yes, although it would likely be a case of "Back to the Future", or perhaps, "The Eternal Recurrence of the Spotless Universal Mind".  |
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Post by zendancer on Oct 15, 2024 12:04:59 GMT -5
The answer to the second koan is incredibly obvious for anyone who has worked with koans and understands what kind of answer is required. The other koan is far harder to penetrate and usually requires a lot of meditation/contemplation/silence. A third koan related to this goes, "The Buddha said that everything has Buddha-nature, but Joshu said that a dog does not have Buddha nature.." Which master was correct? This is considered a super easy koan to resolve/answer, but, strangely, I never saw through it until last year while I was driving along one day and that koan popped into my mind. The answer was so obvious that I had to laugh. I wondered, "How could I have missed this in the past?" Always had a problem with koans. They don't seem useful to me. But especially the dog/Buddha nature thing. Because I like dogs probably more than I like humans. Reminds me of a conversation I had with a preacher at a racket ball court. He was trying to convert me. They always are. When I asked him if dogs went to heaven, he said "no." That was pretty much the end of the conversation. But the hang-up for me with the dog/Buddha nature koan has to do with the verb "to have" or "to possess." Nobody HAS Buddha nature. It's just troubling. As to the OP. I'm impressed with Ken's experiment with EEGs, it says a lot. But I say sharpen your blade, definitely an imposter. Anything you say about Truth, Reality fits only in a narrow slot of Time/Space when it is useful. Outside of that it's just noise. FWIW, I found koans incredibly helpful for "getting out of one's head." During a first interview the teacher said, "Leave your thinking mind outside the interview room and only bring your 'before-thinking mind" in here. Initially I didn't know what he meant by that, but it soon became clear, and as I began working on koans, I was amazed at how conditioned I was to intellectualize everything and even more amazed as I began to escape that habit. Most people don't realize that they have an innate intelligence that is prior to thought and doesn't need thought. Essentially, Zen methodology is designed to shift an adult's interaction with the world from an indirect mode (via thoughts) to a direct mode (via the body's innate intelligence). Although there's nothing inherently wrong with using symbology, learning to interact with reality directly usually results in a lot of existential realizations, and ultimately it leads to freedom from the ruminative recursive reflective function of the intellect. |
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Post by zazeniac on Oct 15, 2024 13:03:19 GMT -5
Always had a problem with koans. They don't seem useful to me. But especially the dog/Buddha nature thing. Because I like dogs probably more than I like humans. Reminds me of a conversation I had with a preacher at a racket ball court. He was trying to convert me. They always are. When I asked him if dogs went to heaven, he said "no." That was pretty much the end of the conversation. But the hang-up for me with the dog/Buddha nature koan has to do with the verb "to have" or "to possess." Nobody HAS Buddha nature. It's just troubling. As to the OP. I'm impressed with Ken's experiment with EEGs, it says a lot. But I say sharpen your blade, definitely an imposter. Anything you say about Truth, Reality fits only in a narrow slot of Time/Space when it is useful. Outside of that it's just noise. FWIW, I found koans incredibly helpful for "getting out of one's head." During a first interview the teacher said, "Leave your thinking mind outside the interview room and only bring your 'before-thinking mind" in here. Initially I didn't know what he meant by that, but it soon became clear, and as I began working on koans, I was amazed at how conditioned I was to intellectualize everything and even more amazed as I began to escape that habit. Most people don't realize that they have an innate intelligence that is prior to thought and doesn't need thought. Essentially, Zen methodology is designed to shift an adult's interaction with the world from an indirect mode (via thoughts) to a direct mode (via the body's innate intelligence). Although there's nothing inherently wrong with using symbology, learning to interact with reality directly usually results in a lot of existential realizations, and ultimately it leads to freedom from the ruminative recursive reflective function of the intellect. There's another storm lurking in the Caribbean. When I read articles about it, a knot forms in my belly. The body/mind doesn’t like the feeling so thoughts about it being too early to tell or that half the models have continuing west or that a cold front will block it, pop up but to no avail, the knot persists. I can focus on the sensation of the knot and the thoughts abate, but the knot persists. It's uncomfortable. Seems thoughts overtly trying to undo the knot, cause it to tighten. I can focus on the election and a different knot appears. About the only way to undo the knots is to get distracted by something pleasant like tennis or a movie or by ignoring media altogether which I am prone to do. This is the dynamic 99.9999% of us engage in. It's fairly ingrained in us, an addiction I would say. In fact, my theory is that most folks here on this site engage in it, where coming here, focusing on nonduality, is one of the soothing distractions. |
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Post by inavalan on Oct 15, 2024 13:41:22 GMT -5
You are reactive because you can't yet be consciously creative. A first step is to generate unspecific positive expectations.
We aren't here to be buddhas, in no possible accept of the word.
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Post by andrew on Oct 15, 2024 20:58:21 GMT -5
FWIW, I found koans incredibly helpful for "getting out of one's head." During a first interview the teacher said, "Leave your thinking mind outside the interview room and only bring your 'before-thinking mind" in here. Initially I didn't know what he meant by that, but it soon became clear, and as I began working on koans, I was amazed at how conditioned I was to intellectualize everything and even more amazed as I began to escape that habit. Most people don't realize that they have an innate intelligence that is prior to thought and doesn't need thought. Essentially, Zen methodology is designed to shift an adult's interaction with the world from an indirect mode (via thoughts) to a direct mode (via the body's innate intelligence). Although there's nothing inherently wrong with using symbology, learning to interact with reality directly usually results in a lot of existential realizations, and ultimately it leads to freedom from the ruminative recursive reflective function of the intellect. There's another storm lurking in the Caribbean. When I read articles about it, a knot forms in my belly. The body/mind doesn’t like the feeling so thoughts about it being too early to tell or that half the models have continuing west or that a cold front will block it, pop up but to no avail, the knot persists. I can focus on the sensation of the knot and the thoughts abate, but the knot persists. It's uncomfortable. Seems thoughts overtly trying to undo the knot, cause it to tighten. I can focus on the election and a different knot appears. About the only way to undo the knots is to get distracted by something pleasant like tennis or a movie or by ignoring media altogether which I am prone to do. This is the dynamic 99.9999% of us engage in. It's fairly ingrained in us, an addiction I would say. In fact, my theory is that most folks here on this site engage in it, where coming here, focusing on nonduality, is one of the soothing distractions. I know those knots. But what if the focus on tennis or on-duality isn't 'distraction'? What if it's just a healthier focus? Or a focus that is congruent/aligned with what we are as Peace? So the 'knots' are more a reminder than anything else. I rarely, if ever, watch horror films because of knots. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 15, 2024 22:31:22 GMT -5
There's another storm lurking in the Caribbean. When I read articles about it, a knot forms in my belly. The body/mind doesn’t like the feeling so thoughts about it being too early to tell or that half the models have continuing west or that a cold front will block it, pop up but to no avail, the knot persists. I can focus on the sensation of the knot and the thoughts abate, but the knot persists. It's uncomfortable. Seems thoughts overtly trying to undo the knot, cause it to tighten. I can focus on the election and a different knot appears. About the only way to undo the knots is to get distracted by something pleasant like tennis or a movie or by ignoring media altogether which I am prone to do. This is the dynamic 99.9999% of us engage in. It's fairly ingrained in us, an addiction I would say. In fact, my theory is that most folks here on this site engage in it, where coming here, focusing on nonduality, is one of the soothing distractions. I know those knots. But what if the focus on tennis or on-duality isn't 'distraction'? What if it's just a healthier focus? Or a focus that is congruent/aligned with what we are as Peace? So the 'knots' are more a reminder than anything else. I rarely, if ever, watch horror films because of knots. Is it physically painful? Is it in the solar plexus or the Hari? |
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Post by andrew on Oct 15, 2024 22:49:20 GMT -5
I know those knots. But what if the focus on tennis or on-duality isn't 'distraction'? What if it's just a healthier focus? Or a focus that is congruent/aligned with what we are as Peace? So the 'knots' are more a reminder than anything else. I rarely, if ever, watch horror films because of knots. Is it physically painful? Is it in the solar plexus or the Hari? for me, it's a knot of tension in the solar plexus/gut area, yeah. Not physically painful, but also not relaxed/ease. There can be differing intensities of tension, but even just having the television news on in the same room I'm in, I can be aware of a mild overall body tension. They can sometimes be opportunities to deepen into presence (or something of that nature). Reminds me of something Tolle said once (paraphrasing)....there are only ever 3 choices when faced with an unpleasant condition....accept it totally, change it, or leave the situation. |
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Post by zazeniac on Oct 15, 2024 23:19:54 GMT -5
There's another storm lurking in the Caribbean. When I read articles about it, a knot forms in my belly. The body/mind doesn’t like the feeling so thoughts about it being too early to tell or that half the models have continuing west or that a cold front will block it, pop up but to no avail, the knot persists. I can focus on the sensation of the knot and the thoughts abate, but the knot persists. It's uncomfortable. Seems thoughts overtly trying to undo the knot, cause it to tighten. I can focus on the election and a different knot appears. About the only way to undo the knots is to get distracted by something pleasant like tennis or a movie or by ignoring media altogether which I am prone to do. This is the dynamic 99.9999% of us engage in. It's fairly ingrained in us, an addiction I would say. In fact, my theory is that most folks here on this site engage in it, where coming here, focusing on nonduality, is one of the soothing distractions. I know those knots. But what if the focus on tennis or on-duality isn't 'distraction'? What if it's just a healthier focus ? Or a focus that is congruent/aligned with what we are as Peace? So the 'knots' are more a reminder than anything else. I rarely, if ever, watch horror films because of knots. This might be true, a healthier focus. Just describing the dynamic. I think it's most important to notice it. To observe but let it play out. "Resist yee not evil." It was hard to practice in the lead up and during the hurricane. But it happened. Practice. It didn't change anything and I realized that that was an expectation in my practice. Not a good thing. Practice with intent of resisting what is happening. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 15, 2024 23:31:42 GMT -5
I know those knots. But what if the focus on tennis or on-duality isn't 'distraction'? What if it's just a healthier focus ? Or a focus that is congruent/aligned with what we are as Peace? So the 'knots' are more a reminder than anything else. I rarely, if ever, watch horror films because of knots. This might be true, a healthier focus. Just describing the dynamic. I think it's most important to notice it. To observe but let it play out. "Resist yee not evil." It was hard to practice in the lead up and during the hurricane. But it happened. Practice. It didn't change anything and I realized that that was an expectation in my practice. Not a good thing. Practice with intent of resisting what is happening. Yeah. I've noted that when practice comes with an expectation, that there's a subtle hard edge to it. Like it's being slightly 'forced'. I find it best to almost 'slip into it', delicately and gently. Almost as if it's happening to me, as if it envelops me. But if a hurricane is on its way, I think we can all be excused for practice imperfections lol. |
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Post by sharon on Oct 16, 2024 3:05:57 GMT -5
We would probably end up discussing the subtle similarities between Alignment and Dharma if we were back there. Yes, although it would likely be a case of "Back to the Future", or perhaps, "The Eternal Recurrence of the Spotless Universal Mind". Oh Christ, didn’t know you was gonna leap to the last page so quickly. |
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Post by sharon on Oct 16, 2024 3:09:08 GMT -5
This might be true, a healthier focus. Just describing the dynamic. I think it's most important to notice it. To observe but let it play out. "Resist yee not evil." It was hard to practice in the lead up and during the hurricane. But it happened. Practice. It didn't change anything and I realized that that was an expectation in my practice. Not a good thing. Practice with intent of resisting what is happening. Yeah. I've noted that when practice comes with an expectation, that there's a subtle hard edge to it. Like it's being slightly 'forced'. I find it best to almost 'slip into it', delicately and gently. Almost as if it's happening to me, as if it envelops me. But if a hurricane is on its way, I think we can all be excused for practice imperfections lol. I wouldn’t call it an imperfection that was found, I would put it in the undeniable refinement category. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 16, 2024 9:48:37 GMT -5
Is it physically painful? Is it in the solar plexus or the Hari? for me, it's a knot of tension in the solar plexus/gut area, yeah. Not physically painful, but also not relaxed/ease. There can be differing intensities of tension, but even just having the television news on in the same room I'm in, I can be aware of a mild overall body tension. They can sometimes be opportunities to deepen into presence (or something of that nature). Reminds me of something Tolle said once (paraphrasing)....there are only ever 3 choices when faced with an unpleasant condition....accept it totally, change it, or leave the situation. Thanks. The center of the solar plexus is the bottom of the breastbone, the bottom of the sternum. It's the center of gravity of the emotional center. The Hara is "4 inches below the navel". I'd say it the energy reservoir of the instinctive center. The Hara and the Sacral chakra are one and the same. I was trying to pin down the area. The chakras are not measurable by science, but the vagus nerve reaches all the regions of the chakras. It seems (to me) the chakras connect to the different planes, exchange energy. A chakra is a wheel is a vortex is a torus. This seems a pretty good article, have not read in full. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 17, 2024 10:42:34 GMT -5
for me, it's a knot of tension in the solar plexus/gut area, yeah. Not physically painful, but also not relaxed/ease. There can be differing intensities of tension, but even just having the television news on in the same room I'm in, I can be aware of a mild overall body tension. They can sometimes be opportunities to deepen into presence (or something of that nature). Reminds me of something Tolle said once (paraphrasing)....there are only ever 3 choices when faced with an unpleasant condition....accept it totally, change it, or leave the situation. Thanks. The center of the solar plexus is the bottom of the breastbone, the bottom of the sternum. It's the center of gravity of the emotional center. The Hara is "4 inches below the navel". I'd say it the energy reservoir of the instinctive center. The Hara and the Sacral chakra are one and the same. I was trying to pin down the area. The chakras are not measurable by science, but the vagus nerve reaches all the regions of the chakras. It seems (to me) the chakras connect to the different planes, exchange energy. A chakra is a wheel is a vortex is a torus. This seems a pretty good article, have not read in full. Cheers, I've read a bit about the Vagus Nerve, but not in connection to chakras. My knots/unease would be sacral, not solar plexus, and I read with interest how that also connects to lower back pain, which is a bit of a weak area for me. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 17, 2024 11:36:13 GMT -5
Thanks. The center of the solar plexus is the bottom of the breastbone, the bottom of the sternum. It's the center of gravity of the emotional center. The Hara is "4 inches below the navel". I'd say it the energy reservoir of the instinctive center. The Hara and the Sacral chakra are one and the same. I was trying to pin down the area. The chakras are not measurable by science, but the vagus nerve reaches all the regions of the chakras. It seems (to me) the chakras connect to the different planes, exchange energy. A chakra is a wheel is a vortex is a torus. This seems a pretty good article, have not read in full. Cheers, I've read a bit about the Vagus Nerve, but not in connection to chakras. My knots/unease would be sacral, not solar plexus, and I read with interest how that also connects to lower back pain, which is a bit of a weak area for me. Read in full, the gut is called the second brain. Excerpts, the article is 14 years old: Technically known as the enteric nervous system, the second brain consists of sheaths of neurons embedded in the walls of the long tube of our gut, or alimentary canal, which measures about nine meters end to end from the esophagus to the anus. The second brain contains some 100 million neurons, more than in either the spinal cord or the peripheral nervous system, Gershon says. "The system is way too complicated to have evolved only to make sure things move out of your colon," says Emeran Mayer, professor of physiology, psychiatry and biobehavioral sciences at the David Geffen School of Medicine at the University of California, Los Angeles (U.C.L.A.). For example, scientists were shocked to learn that about 90 percent of the fibers in the primary visceral nerve, the vagus, carry information from the gut to the brain and not the other way around. "Some of that info is decidedly unpleasant," Gershon says. The second brain informs our state of mind in other more obscure ways, as well. "A big part of our emotions are probably influenced by the nerves in our gut," Mayer says. Butterflies in the stomach—signaling in the gut as part of our physiological stress response, Gershon says—is but one example. Although gastrointestinal (GI) turmoil can sour one's moods, everyday emotional well-being may rely on messages from the brain below to the brain above. Given the two brains' commonalities, other depression treatments that target the mind can unintentionally impact the gut. The enteric nervous system uses more than 30 neurotransmitters, just like the brain, and in fact 95 percent of the body's serotonin is found in the bowels. Serotonin seeping from the second brain might even play some part in autism, the developmental disorder often first noticed in early childhood. Gershon has discovered that the same genes involved in synapse formation between neurons in the brain are involved in the alimentary synapse formation. "If these genes are affected in autism," he says, "it could explain why so many kids with autism have GI motor abnormalities" in addition to elevated levels of gut-produced serotonin in their blood. U.C.L.A.'s Mayer is doing work on how the trillions of bacteria in the gut "communicate" with enteric nervous system cells (which they greatly outnumber). His work with the gut's nervous system has led him to think that in coming years psychiatry will need to expand to treat the second brain in addition to the one atop the shoulders. |
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Post by laughter on Oct 17, 2024 20:52:24 GMT -5
Yes, although it would likely be a case of "Back to the Future", or perhaps, "The Eternal Recurrence of the Spotless Universal Mind". Oh Christ, didn’t know you was gonna leap to the last page so quickly.  |
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