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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 5, 2024 8:22:48 GMT -5
From the Chasing thread, page 23: laughter Avatar laughter Too Much Free Time Club member **** Sep 3, 2024 at 2:42pm Quote likePost Options Options inavalan said:It is interesting, and I dare say illuminating to interpret the reality you perceive from the perspective that it reflects your expectations, it is filtered through your beliefs, and it is one of the endless number of realities that exist. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ laughter wrote: There is the abstract meta-reality of expectations and beliefs. This is superficial. Now, a relatively quiet body/mind, in temporary suspension of this activity, is an opportunity. It's an opportunity to see the superficial meta-reality for what it is and what it isn't. It's also an opportunity the get present to a deeper sense of reality based on our conditioned responses to our perceptions that are extant, even absent the superficial meta-reality. There can be a curiosity about what seems a divide. What is this, that we perceive? What is this process? Do I begin and end at the skin of my body? If not, then where and when? It's tempting to start conceiving of "mind" or "spirit" as an expansion of yourself as an individual, but that is just a different version of the meta-reality of belief and expectation. Ultimately, "your body", and "your mind", are not two different things. Neither is the "you", that is defined by everything this "you" isn't. But this is a radical conception that has the potential to lead to all manner of objection and mental confusion ending in paradox. This concept of unity, this radical conception, is a pointer. Thoughts about the pointer are what lead to the confusion. Not all thought is confusing, but thinking about the existential question leads to one of either two outcomes: (1) a clarity of mental and emotional quiescence, reached directly, and the end of the pondering, or (2) endless cycles of confusing mentation. Avoid the maze. Find the wild field. sdp wrote (doing this on my phone  I read this the other day. Most of this is nonsense. What's not nonsense is your mind and your body are not two different things. The truth cannot be put into words. Trying to put the truth into words is like a freeze frame, just a tiny snapshot. But that doesn't mean there isn't a broader deeper truth. I'm constantly trying to nudge the truth out. I considered another way this morning. There are 8 billion people on the planet. There is not One Whole dreaming one dream, there are 8 billion dreams going on within the Whole. Whatever truth we come to, must be explanatory or it's relatively useless. Existential means what apparently is. So, for sdp, the Existential Truth is explanatory of what is. So, for sdp, 8 billion dreams explains more than One Dreamer dreaming it all. Everything written here on STs is merely an expression of one POV. Years ago something seemed peculiarly amiss upon hearing the term, so then a realization informs the mind. I operate from experience and understanding, not from realizations. For sdp, the basis of Existential Truth is knowledge plus the level of one's being, plus experience, which results in understanding. Understanding is the point of leverage. As we are, now, understanding is the deepest point of self we know (it's about as much as we can say about what we are, now. But we can-be-more, that's the whole point). Understanding results in self-knowledge. We have a deeper self, which has a better handle on how everything works. The how of how everything works is the Existential Truth. Now, that's my point of view. My view explains crime, war, terrorism, murder, the mess we see on the news every day, 4 killed in school yesterday, as well as all things positive. 8 billion individual dreams, colliding, everybody wanting to do their own thing, running over each other in the process, greed, power, operating. Yes, all within a Whole, but personal conditioning influencing tiny pockets, everyone has a certain sphere of influence. Conditioning operates. The deeper reality does not consist of abstractions. It's more-real than this (look around). The body is a necessary 'Earth suit', but it's more. It's an alchemical laboratory for synthesizing a finer body which can live in a different world, for ~making a soul~ (an operational soul doesn't come ready-made). The physical body is-like a garden. The way there is via attention and awareness. SR takes any sense of self off the board. For sdp (and a few others here), that's an error. SR takes the ego/conditioned-self out of the game, but the ego/mask/persona/self-avatar is not the true self, anyway. There IS a true individualized self, it just doesn't come ready-made. It's grown. |
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Post by laughter on Sept 6, 2024 3:58:06 GMT -5
From the Chasing thread, page 23: laughter Avatar laughter Too Much Free Time Club member **** Sep 3, 2024 at 2:42pm Quote likePost Options Options inavalan said:It is interesting, and I dare say illuminating to interpret the reality you perceive from the perspective that it reflects your expectations, it is filtered through your beliefs, and it is one of the endless number of realities that exist. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ laughter wrote: There is the abstract meta-reality of expectations and beliefs. This is superficial. Now, a relatively quiet body/mind, in temporary suspension of this activity, is an opportunity. It's an opportunity to see the superficial meta-reality for what it is and what it isn't. It's also an opportunity the get present to a deeper sense of reality based on our conditioned responses to our perceptions that are extant, even absent the superficial meta-reality. There can be a curiosity about what seems a divide. What is this, that we perceive? What is this process? Do I begin and end at the skin of my body? If not, then where and when? It's tempting to start conceiving of "mind" or "spirit" as an expansion of yourself as an individual, but that is just a different version of the meta-reality of belief and expectation. Ultimately, "your body", and "your mind", are not two different things. Neither is the "you", that is defined by everything this "you" isn't. But this is a radical conception that has the potential to lead to all manner of objection and mental confusion ending in paradox. This concept of unity, this radical conception, is a pointer. Thoughts about the pointer are what lead to the confusion. Not all thought is confusing, but thinking about the existential question leads to one of either two outcomes: (1) a clarity of mental and emotional quiescence, reached directly, and the end of the pondering, or (2) endless cycles of confusing mentation. Avoid the maze. Find the wild field. sdp wrote (doing this on my phone I read this the other day. Most of this is nonsense. What's not nonsense is your mind and your body are not two different things. The truth cannot be put into words. Trying to put the truth into words is like a freeze frame, just a tiny snapshot. But that doesn't mean there isn't a broader deeper truth. I'm constantly trying to nudge the truth out. I considered another way this morning. There are 8 billion people on the planet. There is not One Whole dreaming one dream, there are 8 billion dreams going on within the Whole. Whatever truth we come to, must be explanatory or it's relatively useless. Existential means what apparently is. So, for sdp, the Existential Truth is explanatory of what is. So, for sdp, 8 billion dreams explains more than One Dreamer dreaming it all. Everything written here on STs is merely an expression of one POV. Years ago something seemed peculiarly amiss upon hearing the term, so then a realization informs the mind. I operate from experience and understanding, not from realizations. For sdp, the basis of Existential Truth is knowledge plus the level of one's being, plus experience, which results in understanding. Understanding is the point of leverage. As we are, now, understanding is the deepest point of self we know (it's about as much as we can say about what we are, now. But we can-be-more, that's the whole point). Understanding results in self-knowledge. We have a deeper self, which has a better handle on how everything works. The how of how everything works is the Existential Truth. Now, that's my point of view. My view explains crime, war, terrorism, murder, the mess we see on the news every day, 4 killed in school yesterday, as well as all things positive. 8 billion individual dreams, colliding, everybody wanting to do their own thing, running over each other in the process, greed, power, operating. Yes, all within a Whole, but personal conditioning influencing tiny pockets, everyone has a certain sphere of influence. Conditioning operates. The deeper reality does not consist of abstractions. It's more-real than this (look around). The body is a necessary 'Earth suit', but it's more. It's an alchemical laboratory for synthesizing a finer body which can live in a different world, for ~making a soul~ (an operational soul doesn't come ready-made). The physical body is-like a garden. The way there is via attention and awareness. SR takes any sense of self off the board. For sdp (and a few others here), that's an error. SR takes the ego/conditioned-self out of the game, but the ego/mask/persona/self-avatar is not the true self, anyway. There IS a true individualized self, it just doesn't come ready-made. It's grown. So I wrote " nonsense", eh?  I guess what triggered you was the idea that to conceive of an expanded sense of "mind" or "spirit" was just another meta reality. I do not mean "existential" as you've stated it. There is no "apparently". Do you exist? Yes, or no? Your demand for an explanation that is useful is, again, a focus on the functional. An insistent fascination with the mechanics of what comes and goes. There have been hundreds of dialogs on this forum about how existential realization has a positive effect on the individual, but in terms of what is realized, this is completely sideways to what is pointed to by the pointer of not-two, that radical conception of unity. What is pointed to does not come and go, but rather, is eternal, and also indestructible, as "it", is indivisible. What is realized, is an absence of illusion. This is always and ever here and now, and not a reward for hard work or good behavior. The common state of mind is one oriented toward acquisition. Acquisition of experience, knowledge .. or, whatever. But the existential truth isn't an object that can be obtained. There is the potential for a simple, sudden shift in perspective. No, this truth is no more a "how" than it is a "what". And there are many individuals with depth of mind, depth of engagement, with energy and talent, with depths of reference and wisdom. Admirable qualities, always concurrent with great achievement. Better men and women than I could ever hope to be. Worthy of respect. And completely sideways, to the simple, existential truth. 
This is not deny the multiplicity of perspective and individuality. No, quite the opposite. Anyone who realizes the existential truth has the potential to appreciate and celebrate the awesome, and even sometimes terrible beauty in the myriad of expression that we sense and interact with. And this potential, is related to your interest in "levels of mind", because it manifests in various depth that varies between individuals, and likely knows no bound, and has many other words besides "appreciation", or "celebration", that apply to it.
SR takes any sense of self off the board. For sdp (and a few others here), that's an error. SR takes the ego/conditioned-self out of the game, but the ego/mask/persona/self-avatar is not the true self, anyway. There IS a true individualized self, it just doesn't come ready-made. It's grown. What you imagine what I mean by "SR" is not what I mean. You're addressing a straw man. The body is a necessary 'Earth suit', but it's more. It's an alchemical laboratory for synthesizing a finer body which can live in a different world, for ~making a soul~ (an operational soul doesn't come ready-made). The physical body is-like a garden. The way there is via attention and awareness. These sorts of explanations for the mystery of life are jejune. These are comic-book and facile fragments and ingredients called for by the cookbook of the hero's journey. Sitting down, quietly, one may place attention, fully, on attention. That is to say, to focus only on the fact of the focusing. This can banish all superficial thought, clearing the mind, settling the emotions. If this is maintained, eventually, one might naturally relax, into a self-sustaining awareness, of awareness. Always here and now. Eternal, and infinite. |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 6, 2024 6:59:07 GMT -5
From the Chasing thread, page 23: laughter Avatar laughter Too Much Free Time Club member **** Sep 3, 2024 at 2:42pm Quote likePost Options Options inavalan said:It is interesting, and I dare say illuminating to interpret the reality you perceive from the perspective that it reflects your expectations, it is filtered through your beliefs, and it is one of the endless number of realities that exist. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ laughter wrote: There is the abstract meta-reality of expectations and beliefs. This is superficial. Now, a relatively quiet body/mind, in temporary suspension of this activity, is an opportunity. It's an opportunity to see the superficial meta-reality for what it is and what it isn't. It's also an opportunity the get present to a deeper sense of reality based on our conditioned responses to our perceptions that are extant, even absent the superficial meta-reality. There can be a curiosity about what seems a divide. What is this, that we perceive? What is this process? Do I begin and end at the skin of my body? If not, then where and when? It's tempting to start conceiving of "mind" or "spirit" as an expansion of yourself as an individual, but that is just a different version of the meta-reality of belief and expectation. Ultimately, "your body", and "your mind", are not two different things. Neither is the "you", that is defined by everything this "you" isn't. But this is a radical conception that has the potential to lead to all manner of objection and mental confusion ending in paradox. This concept of unity, this radical conception, is a pointer. Thoughts about the pointer are what lead to the confusion. Not all thought is confusing, but thinking about the existential question leads to one of either two outcomes: (1) a clarity of mental and emotional quiescence, reached directly, and the end of the pondering, or (2) endless cycles of confusing mentation. Avoid the maze. Find the wild field. sdp wrote (doing this on my phone I read this the other day. Most of this is nonsense. What's not nonsense is your mind and your body are not two different things. The truth cannot be put into words. Trying to put the truth into words is like a freeze frame, just a tiny snapshot. But that doesn't mean there isn't a broader deeper truth. I'm constantly trying to nudge the truth out. I considered another way this morning. There are 8 billion people on the planet. There is not One Whole dreaming one dream, there are 8 billion dreams going on within the Whole. Whatever truth we come to, must be explanatory or it's relatively useless. Existential means what apparently is. So, for sdp, the Existential Truth is explanatory of what is. So, for sdp, 8 billion dreams explains more than One Dreamer dreaming it all. Everything written here on STs is merely an expression of one POV. Years ago something seemed peculiarly amiss upon hearing the term, so then a realization informs the mind. I operate from experience and understanding, not from realizations. For sdp, the basis of Existential Truth is knowledge plus the level of one's being, plus experience, which results in understanding. Understanding is the point of leverage. As we are, now, understanding is the deepest point of self we know (it's about as much as we can say about what we are, now. But we can-be-more, that's the whole point). Understanding results in self-knowledge. We have a deeper self, which has a better handle on how everything works. The how of how everything works is the Existential Truth. Now, that's my point of view. My view explains crime, war, terrorism, murder, the mess we see on the news every day, 4 killed in school yesterday, as well as all things positive. 8 billion individual dreams, colliding, everybody wanting to do their own thing, running over each other in the process, greed, power, operating. Yes, all within a Whole, but personal conditioning influencing tiny pockets, everyone has a certain sphere of influence. Conditioning operates. The deeper reality does not consist of abstractions. It's more-real than this (look around). The body is a necessary 'Earth suit', but it's more. It's an alchemical laboratory for synthesizing a finer body which can live in a different world, for ~making a soul~ (an operational soul doesn't come ready-made). The physical body is-like a garden. The way there is via attention and awareness. SR takes any sense of self off the board. For sdp (and a few others here), that's an error. SR takes the ego/conditioned-self out of the game, but the ego/mask/persona/self-avatar is not the true self, anyway. There IS a true individualized self, it just doesn't come ready-made. It's grown. So I wrote " nonsense", eh? I guess what triggered you was the idea that to conceive of an expanded sense of "mind" or "spirit" was just another meta reality. I do not mean "existential" as you've stated it. There is no "apparently". Do you exist? Yes, or no? Your demand for an explanation that is useful is, again, a focus on the functional. An insistent fascination with the mechanics of what comes and goes. There have been hundreds of dialogs on this forum about how existential realization has a positive effect on the individual, but in terms of what is realized, this is completely sideways to what is pointed to by the pointer of not-two, that radical conception of unity. What is pointed to does not come and go, but rather, is eternal, and also indestructible, as "it", is indivisible. What is realized, is an absence of illusion. This is always and ever here and now, and not a reward for hard work or good behavior. The common state of mind is one oriented toward acquisition. Acquisition of experience, knowledge .. or, whatever. But the existential truth isn't an object that can be obtained. There is the potential for a simple, sudden shift in perspective. No, this truth is no more a "how" than it is a "what". And there are many individuals with depth of mind, depth of engagement, with energy and talent, with depths of reference and wisdom. Admirable qualities, always concurrent with great achievement. Better men and women than I could ever hope to be. Worthy of respect. And completely sideways, to the simple, existential truth. This is not deny the multiplicity of perspective and individuality. No, quite the opposite. Anyone who realizes the existential truth has the potential to appreciate and celebrate the awesome, and even sometimes terrible beauty in the myriad of expression that we sense and interact with. And this potential, is related to your interest in "levels of mind", because it manifests in various depth that varies between individuals, and likely knows no bound, and has many other words besides "appreciation", or "celebration", that apply to it.
SR takes any sense of self off the board. For sdp (and a few others here), that's an error. SR takes the ego/conditioned-self out of the game, but the ego/mask/persona/self-avatar is not the true self, anyway. There IS a true individualized self, it just doesn't come ready-made. It's grown. What you imagine what I mean by "SR" is not what I mean. You're addressing a straw man. The body is a necessary 'Earth suit', but it's more. It's an alchemical laboratory for synthesizing a finer body which can live in a different world, for ~making a soul~ (an operational soul doesn't come ready-made). The physical body is-like a garden. The way there is via attention and awareness. These sorts of explanations for the mystery of life are jejune. These are comic-book and facile fragments and ingredients called for by the cookbook of the hero's journey. Sitting down, quietly, one may place attention, fully, on attention. That is to say, to focus only on the fact of the focusing. This can banish all superficial thought, clearing the mind, settling the emotions. If this is maintained, eventually, one might naturally relax, into a self-sustaining awareness, of awareness. Always here and now. Eternal, and infinite. So true. And there are many more perspectives than 8 billion. There are trillions of living things, but only one looker looking at Itself from all of those different perspectives. There is a gateless gate, and those who pass through it discover that reality is NOT what they imagined. Unlike most living things, humans have a reflective function of consciousness that allows them to make distinctions and know that they know, and the reflective function of consciousness is what creates the illusion of separation and the meta-reality that they mistakenly imagine as reality. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 6, 2024 16:17:44 GMT -5
From the Chasing thread, page 23: laughter Avatar laughter Too Much Free Time Club member **** Sep 3, 2024 at 2:42pm Quote likePost Options Options inavalan said:It is interesting, and I dare say illuminating to interpret the reality you perceive from the perspective that it reflects your expectations, it is filtered through your beliefs, and it is one of the endless number of realities that exist. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ laughter wrote: There is the abstract meta-reality of expectations and beliefs. This is superficial. Now, a relatively quiet body/mind, in temporary suspension of this activity, is an opportunity. It's an opportunity to see the superficial meta-reality for what it is and what it isn't. It's also an opportunity the get present to a deeper sense of reality based on our conditioned responses to our perceptions that are extant, even absent the superficial meta-reality. There can be a curiosity about what seems a divide. What is this, that we perceive? What is this process? Do I begin and end at the skin of my body? If not, then where and when? It's tempting to start conceiving of "mind" or "spirit" as an expansion of yourself as an individual, but that is just a different version of the meta-reality of belief and expectation. Ultimately, "your body", and "your mind", are not two different things. Neither is the "you", that is defined by everything this "you" isn't. But this is a radical conception that has the potential to lead to all manner of objection and mental confusion ending in paradox. This concept of unity, this radical conception, is a pointer. Thoughts about the pointer are what lead to the confusion. Not all thought is confusing, but thinking about the existential question leads to one of either two outcomes: (1) a clarity of mental and emotional quiescence, reached directly, and the end of the pondering, or (2) endless cycles of confusing mentation. Avoid the maze. Find the wild field. sdp wrote (doing this on my phone I read this the other day. Most of this is nonsense. What's not nonsense is your mind and your body are not two different things. The truth cannot be put into words. Trying to put the truth into words is like a freeze frame, just a tiny snapshot. But that doesn't mean there isn't a broader deeper truth. I'm constantly trying to nudge the truth out. I considered another way this morning. There are 8 billion people on the planet. There is not One Whole dreaming one dream, there are 8 billion dreams going on within the Whole. Whatever truth we come to, must be explanatory or it's relatively useless. Existential means what apparently is. So, for sdp, the Existential Truth is explanatory of what is. So, for sdp, 8 billion dreams explains more than One Dreamer dreaming it all. Everything written here on STs is merely an expression of one POV. Years ago something seemed peculiarly amiss upon hearing the term, so then a realization informs the mind. I operate from experience and understanding, not from realizations. For sdp, the basis of Existential Truth is knowledge plus the level of one's being, plus experience, which results in understanding. Understanding is the point of leverage. As we are, now, understanding is the deepest point of self we know (it's about as much as we can say about what we are, now. But we can-be-more, that's the whole point). Understanding results in self-knowledge. We have a deeper self, which has a better handle on how everything works. The how of how everything works is the Existential Truth. Now, that's my point of view. My view explains crime, war, terrorism, murder, the mess we see on the news every day, 4 killed in school yesterday, as well as all things positive. 8 billion individual dreams, colliding, everybody wanting to do their own thing, running over each other in the process, greed, power, operating. Yes, all within a Whole, but personal conditioning influencing tiny pockets, everyone has a certain sphere of influence. Conditioning operates. The deeper reality does not consist of abstractions. It's more-real than this (look around). The body is a necessary 'Earth suit', but it's more. It's an alchemical laboratory for synthesizing a finer body which can live in a different world, for ~making a soul~ (an operational soul doesn't come ready-made). The physical body is-like a garden. The way there is via attention and awareness. SR takes any sense of self off the board. For sdp (and a few others here), that's an error. SR takes the ego/conditioned-self out of the game, but the ego/mask/persona/self-avatar is not the true self, anyway. There IS a true individualized self, it just doesn't come ready-made. It's grown. So I wrote " nonsense", eh? I guess what triggered you was the idea that to conceive of an expanded sense of "mind" or "spirit" was just another meta reality. I do not mean "existential" as you've stated it. There is no "apparently". Do you exist? Yes, or no? Your demand for an explanation that is useful is, again, a focus on the functional. An insistent fascination with the mechanics of what comes and goes. There have been hundreds of dialogs on this forum about how existential realization has a positive effect on the individual, but in terms of what is realized, this is completely sideways to what is pointed to by the pointer of not-two, that radical conception of unity. What is pointed to does not come and go, but rather, is eternal, and also indestructible, as "it", is indivisible. What is realized, is an absence of illusion. This is always and ever here and now, and not a reward for hard work or good behavior. The common state of mind is one oriented toward acquisition. Acquisition of experience, knowledge .. or, whatever. But the existential truth isn't an object that can be obtained. There is the potential for a simple, sudden shift in perspective. No, this truth is no more a "how" than it is a "what". And there are many individuals with depth of mind, depth of engagement, with energy and talent, with depths of reference and wisdom. Admirable qualities, always concurrent with great achievement. Better men and women than I could ever hope to be. Worthy of respect. And completely sideways, to the simple, existential truth. This is not deny the multiplicity of perspective and individuality. No, quite the opposite. Anyone who realizes the existential truth has the potential to appreciate and celebrate the awesome, and even sometimes terrible beauty in the myriad of expression that we sense and interact with. And this potential, is related to your interest in "levels of mind", because it manifests in various depth that varies between individuals, and likely knows no bound, and has many other words besides "appreciation", or "celebration", that apply to it.
SR takes any sense of self off the board. For sdp (and a few others here), that's an error. SR takes the ego/conditioned-self out of the game, but the ego/mask/persona/self-avatar is not the true self, anyway. There IS a true individualized self, it just doesn't come ready-made. It's grown. What you imagine what I mean by "SR" is not what I mean. You're addressing a straw man. The body is a necessary 'Earth suit', but it's more. It's an alchemical laboratory for synthesizing a finer body which can live in a different world, for ~making a soul~ (an operational soul doesn't come ready-made). The physical body is-like a garden. The way there is via attention and awareness. These sorts of explanations for the mystery of life are jejune. These are comic-book and facile fragments and ingredients called for by the cookbook of the hero's journey. Sitting down, quietly, one may place attention, fully, on attention. That is to say, to focus only on the fact of the focusing. This can banish all superficial thought, clearing the mind, settling the emotions. If this is maintained, eventually, one might naturally relax, into a self-sustaining awareness, of awareness. Always here and now. Eternal, and infinite. You're the only one who uses the word existential, the words existential truth. |
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Post by laughter on Sept 7, 2024 3:38:31 GMT -5
So I wrote " nonsense", eh? I guess what triggered you was the idea that to conceive of an expanded sense of "mind" or "spirit" was just another meta reality. I do not mean "existential" as you've stated it. There is no "apparently". Do you exist? Yes, or no? Your demand for an explanation that is useful is, again, a focus on the functional. An insistent fascination with the mechanics of what comes and goes. There have been hundreds of dialogs on this forum about how existential realization has a positive effect on the individual, but in terms of what is realized, this is completely sideways to what is pointed to by the pointer of not-two, that radical conception of unity. What is pointed to does not come and go, but rather, is eternal, and also indestructible, as "it", is indivisible. What is realized, is an absence of illusion. This is always and ever here and now, and not a reward for hard work or good behavior. The common state of mind is one oriented toward acquisition. Acquisition of experience, knowledge .. or, whatever. But the existential truth isn't an object that can be obtained. There is the potential for a simple, sudden shift in perspective. No, this truth is no more a "how" than it is a "what". And there are many individuals with depth of mind, depth of engagement, with energy and talent, with depths of reference and wisdom. Admirable qualities, always concurrent with great achievement. Better men and women than I could ever hope to be. Worthy of respect. And completely sideways, to the simple, existential truth. This is not deny the multiplicity of perspective and individuality. No, quite the opposite. Anyone who realizes the existential truth has the potential to appreciate and celebrate the awesome, and even sometimes terrible beauty in the myriad of expression that we sense and interact with. And this potential, is related to your interest in "levels of mind", because it manifests in various depth that varies between individuals, and likely knows no bound, and has many other words besides "appreciation", or "celebration", that apply to it.
What you imagine what I mean by "SR" is not what I mean. You're addressing a straw man. These sorts of explanations for the mystery of life are jejune. These are comic-book and facile fragments and ingredients called for by the cookbook of the hero's journey. Sitting down, quietly, one may place attention, fully, on attention. That is to say, to focus only on the fact of the focusing. This can banish all superficial thought, clearing the mind, settling the emotions. If this is maintained, eventually, one might naturally relax, into a self-sustaining awareness, of awareness. Always here and now. Eternal, and infinite. So true. And there are many more perspectives than 8 billion. There are trillions of living things, but only one looker looking at Itself from all of those different perspectives. There is a gateless gate, and those who pass through it discover that reality is NOT what they imagined. Unlike most living things, humans have a reflective function of consciousness that allows them to make distinctions and know that they know, and the reflective function of consciousness is what creates the illusion of separation and the meta-reality that they mistakenly imagine as reality. Thanks for your perspective ZD. |
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Post by tenka on Sept 7, 2024 13:02:34 GMT -5
So I wrote " nonsense", eh? I guess what triggered you was the idea that to conceive of an expanded sense of "mind" or "spirit" was just another meta reality. I do not mean "existential" as you've stated it. There is no "apparently". Do you exist? Yes, or no? Your demand for an explanation that is useful is, again, a focus on the functional. An insistent fascination with the mechanics of what comes and goes. There have been hundreds of dialogs on this forum about how existential realization has a positive effect on the individual, but in terms of what is realized, this is completely sideways to what is pointed to by the pointer of not-two, that radical conception of unity. What is pointed to does not come and go, but rather, is eternal, and also indestructible, as "it", is indivisible. What is realized, is an absence of illusion. This is always and ever here and now, and not a reward for hard work or good behavior. The common state of mind is one oriented toward acquisition. Acquisition of experience, knowledge .. or, whatever. But the existential truth isn't an object that can be obtained. There is the potential for a simple, sudden shift in perspective. No, this truth is no more a "how" than it is a "what". And there are many individuals with depth of mind, depth of engagement, with energy and talent, with depths of reference and wisdom. Admirable qualities, always concurrent with great achievement. Better men and women than I could ever hope to be. Worthy of respect. And completely sideways, to the simple, existential truth. This is not deny the multiplicity of perspective and individuality. No, quite the opposite. Anyone who realizes the existential truth has the potential to appreciate and celebrate the awesome, and even sometimes terrible beauty in the myriad of expression that we sense and interact with. And this potential, is related to your interest in "levels of mind", because it manifests in various depth that varies between individuals, and likely knows no bound, and has many other words besides "appreciation", or "celebration", that apply to it.
What you imagine what I mean by "SR" is not what I mean. You're addressing a straw man. These sorts of explanations for the mystery of life are jejune. These are comic-book and facile fragments and ingredients called for by the cookbook of the hero's journey. Sitting down, quietly, one may place attention, fully, on attention. That is to say, to focus only on the fact of the focusing. This can banish all superficial thought, clearing the mind, settling the emotions. If this is maintained, eventually, one might naturally relax, into a self-sustaining awareness, of awareness. Always here and now. Eternal, and infinite. There are trillions of living things, but only one looker looking at Itself from all of those different perspectives. This seems fairly acceptable in non dual circles, butt this allures to one kinda godlike entity that can perceive, think, feel, experience, know, realise etc etc .. The thing is though when a peep transcends, there are no thoughts of this One godlike entity. There is no awareness of perceiving through the eyes of trillions of different perspectives. Now this should tell peeps something, for there isn't a realisation of this. |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 8, 2024 15:52:19 GMT -5
There are trillions of living things, but only one looker looking at Itself from all of those different perspectives. This seems fairly acceptable in non dual circles, butt this allures to one kinda godlike entity that can perceive, think, feel, experience, know, realise etc etc .. The thing is though when a peep transcends, there are no thoughts of this One godlike entity. There is no awareness of perceiving through the eyes of trillions of different perspectives. Now this should tell peeps something, for there isn't a realisation of this. Not an entity of any kind because the definition of "entity" involves separation. It's more like the entire field of reality is alive and aware of itself through every living thing. If one discovers the unity underlying all phenomena, and realizes that if there is no separation, then the same non-separation must be true for every other living thing. There's only one ocean but it is one with every wave and manifesting as every wave. An individual wave would say, "I am a momentary manifestation of the ocean and what I am is not separate from the ocean. I am both a wave and also the ocean producing the wave." Many people who have apprehended the infinite have made statements such as, "It appeared that the universe was centered at every point," "it appeared similar to a network of reflecting gems, all connected to Source and centered at each connection." There is also the realization that awareness is primordial and is the field in which all phenomena appear--the realization that awareness would remain even if the manifested universe completely disappeared. This kind of realization changes one's understanding. |
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Post by laughter on Sept 8, 2024 16:49:53 GMT -5
So I wrote " nonsense", eh? I guess what triggered you was the idea that to conceive of an expanded sense of "mind" or "spirit" was just another meta reality. I do not mean "existential" as you've stated it. There is no "apparently". Do you exist? Yes, or no? Your demand for an explanation that is useful is, again, a focus on the functional. An insistent fascination with the mechanics of what comes and goes. There have been hundreds of dialogs on this forum about how existential realization has a positive effect on the individual, but in terms of what is realized, this is completely sideways to what is pointed to by the pointer of not-two, that radical conception of unity. What is pointed to does not come and go, but rather, is eternal, and also indestructible, as "it", is indivisible. What is realized, is an absence of illusion. This is always and ever here and now, and not a reward for hard work or good behavior. The common state of mind is one oriented toward acquisition. Acquisition of experience, knowledge .. or, whatever. But the existential truth isn't an object that can be obtained. There is the potential for a simple, sudden shift in perspective. No, this truth is no more a "how" than it is a "what". And there are many individuals with depth of mind, depth of engagement, with energy and talent, with depths of reference and wisdom. Admirable qualities, always concurrent with great achievement. Better men and women than I could ever hope to be. Worthy of respect. And completely sideways, to the simple, existential truth. This is not deny the multiplicity of perspective and individuality. No, quite the opposite. Anyone who realizes the existential truth has the potential to appreciate and celebrate the awesome, and even sometimes terrible beauty in the myriad of expression that we sense and interact with. And this potential, is related to your interest in "levels of mind", because it manifests in various depth that varies between individuals, and likely knows no bound, and has many other words besides "appreciation", or "celebration", that apply to it.
What you imagine what I mean by "SR" is not what I mean. You're addressing a straw man. These sorts of explanations for the mystery of life are jejune. These are comic-book and facile fragments and ingredients called for by the cookbook of the hero's journey. Sitting down, quietly, one may place attention, fully, on attention. That is to say, to focus only on the fact of the focusing. This can banish all superficial thought, clearing the mind, settling the emotions. If this is maintained, eventually, one might naturally relax, into a self-sustaining awareness, of awareness. Always here and now. Eternal, and infinite. You're the only one who uses the word existential, the words existential truth. Hey (and yes, apropo of nothing in this thread), I don't remember if I ever thanked you enough for clueing me into Heisenberg's Philosophy and Physics. So, anyway, thank you kindly 'pilgrim! |
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Post by tenka on Sept 9, 2024 13:49:09 GMT -5
This seems fairly acceptable in non dual circles, butt this allures to one kinda godlike entity that can perceive, think, feel, experience, know, realise etc etc .. The thing is though when a peep transcends, there are no thoughts of this One godlike entity. There is no awareness of perceiving through the eyes of trillions of different perspectives. Now this should tell peeps something, for there isn't a realisation of this. Not an entity of any kind because the definition of "entity" involves separation. understanding. .. Sure, although an entity doesn't necessarily mean there is separation had, just like a person doesn't have to either. When you said there's 'One' looking, it kinda jumped out at me that there is someone on a throne looking through trillions of individual perceptions had simultaneously. Gopal has the same kinda premise going on that just doesn't work. |
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Post by tenka on Sept 9, 2024 13:58:00 GMT -5
This seems fairly acceptable in non dual circles, butt this allures to one kinda godlike entity that can perceive, think, feel, experience, know, realise etc etc .. The thing is though when a peep transcends, there are no thoughts of this One godlike entity. There is no awareness of perceiving through the eyes of trillions of different perspectives. Now this should tell peeps something, for there isn't a realisation of this. . If one discovers the unity underlying all phenomena, and realizes that if there is no separation, then the same non-separation must be true for every other living thing. .. well yer, in a way, butt realising that there isn't any separation, (which most of us agree upon) doesn't mean that there isn't individuality in effect. It doesn't mean as said above there is something perceiving through a trillion eye balls. It can be said that there is only what you are individualised without separation, and each individualised experience had is individual by nature, it doesn't mean that something or other is perceiving instead of what the individual constitutes. Again, it boils down to what an individual constitutes and non duality doesn't venture much into what that actually entails / means. (other than it must represent something illusory). |
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Post by tenka on Sept 9, 2024 14:00:12 GMT -5
I am posting on a Monday Andy, just in case you get your days mixed up |
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Post by tenka on Sept 9, 2024 14:03:16 GMT -5
This seems fairly acceptable in non dual circles, butt this allures to one kinda godlike entity that can perceive, think, feel, experience, know, realise etc etc .. The thing is though when a peep transcends, there are no thoughts of this One godlike entity. There is no awareness of perceiving through the eyes of trillions of different perspectives. Now this should tell peeps something, for there isn't a realisation of this. Many people who have apprehended the infinite have made statements such as, "It appeared that the universe was centered at every point," "it appeared similar to a network of reflecting gems, all connected to Source and centered at each connection." Centered at the point of the individual. My mum used to say that each individual person was the centre of their own universe. Not to infer separation of course. In a way everyone is God, experiencing life in their own universe. There own bubble of life experience. I know the way I have come across here is problematic, but just sharing a theme of thought. |
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Post by tenka on Sept 9, 2024 14:05:33 GMT -5
This seems fairly acceptable in non dual circles, butt this allures to one kinda godlike entity that can perceive, think, feel, experience, know, realise etc etc .. The thing is though when a peep transcends, there are no thoughts of this One godlike entity. There is no awareness of perceiving through the eyes of trillions of different perspectives. Now this should tell peeps something, for there isn't a realisation of this. There is also the realization that awareness is primordial and is the field in which all phenomena appear--the realization that awareness would remain even if the manifested universe completely disappeared. This kind of realization changes one's understanding. . Not so much a realisation but a conclusion. |
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Post by sharon on Sept 9, 2024 16:18:50 GMT -5
Many people who have apprehended the infinite have made statements such as, "It appeared that the universe was centered at every point," "it appeared similar to a network of reflecting gems, all connected to Source and centered at each connection." Centered at the point of the individual. My mum used to say that each individual person was the centre of their own universe. Not to infer separation of course. In a way everyone is God, experiencing life in their own universe. There own bubble of life experience. I know the way I have come across here is problematic, but just sharing a theme of thought. When we put but after a sentence, it negates it. |
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Post by sharon on Sept 9, 2024 16:21:11 GMT -5
Many people who have apprehended the infinite have made statements such as, "It appeared that the universe was centered at every point," "it appeared similar to a network of reflecting gems, all connected to Source and centered at each connection." Centered at the point of the individual. My mum used to say that each individual person was the centre of their own universe. Not to infer separation of course. In a way everyone is God, experiencing life in their own universe. Their own bubble of life experience.
I know the way I have come across here is problematic, but just sharing a theme of thought. Robert Anton Wilson called this concept a Reality Tunnel. |
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I guess what triggered you was the idea that to conceive of an expanded sense of "mind" or "spirit" was just another meta reality. I do not mean "existential" as you've stated it. There is no "apparently". Do you exist? Yes, or no? Your demand for an explanation that is useful is, again, a focus on the functional. An insistent fascination with the mechanics of what comes and goes. There have been hundreds of dialogs on this forum about how existential realization has a positive effect on the individual, but in terms of what is realized, this is completely sideways to what is pointed to by the pointer of not-two, that radical conception of unity. What is pointed to does not come and go, but rather, is eternal, and also indestructible, as "it", is indivisible. 
