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Post by robert on Feb 11, 2010 12:30:13 GMT -5
i seek ENLIGHTENMENT thats it. i can feel something right in front of my face,like when you are in an utterly pitch black room but your can feel the presence of something else. you can hear its breathing. it's right there. maybe my sense of urgency is too great, but as far as i am concerned this is the only question worth asking.
perhaps i am reading too many posts and at some point this is a solitary road.
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Post by lightmystic on Feb 11, 2010 12:45:10 GMT -5
sounds good. that attitude is what worked for me at least....it's frustrating I know, but it turns out the frustration is just part of the process of breaking out of your shell....
If you want any additional poking, just ask away....
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Post by robert on Feb 11, 2010 12:56:50 GMT -5
well i feel as though i have done my home work. i have read the readings, watched the vids. so yes poke but in this instance, like klaus, i need "real" world techniques. i want to know what worked for you not what someone told some guy that read it in his cousin''s shed. because i've probably read it too. this is becoming urgent inside me. no turning back.
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Post by lightmystic on Feb 11, 2010 13:56:30 GMT -5
Hey Robert,
There are no real world techniques, because a technique implies something you can do over and over again, applying it to anything, and it will work. This, instead, is an openness to life. Life is the perfect teacher and always provides the next thing IF we are willing and open....Life always brings up the next thing to let go of, and then we have to do whatever it takes to let that resistance fade. We have to feel into those places we desperately don't want to feel into, we have to be with any feeling of constriction until it's felt so fully that it could be there forever and genuinely be okay, and then it transforms. It has to be seeking of what is real for it's own sake, even taking the risk that what is real could be horrible, but not assuming that it is....it's recognizing that any limitation is from resistance to some feeling at a deep level - it hurts, and it's starting to recognize how that resistance is happening and be with it in spite of it. All techniques aim to do this in one form or another, but no one thing is right for everyone all the time. And it's really on life to give you the next thing. And you desiring it intensely brings it to you quickly, and you listening is what will allow to recognize it when it comes.
Another thing, when I was feeling frustrated, I was always looking for this intense, climactic experience that would result in the death of me and then that would be it. I said that I was willing to go through any amount of pain if I could just be done with it. As it turns out, that perspective of just wanting one final thing and then it being over came from not really wanting to accept the whole thing completely. The whole desire for it to be "over" was a resistance to something deep and fundamental in me that was afraid....
And there were a lot of climactic experiences, and it felt like pieces of my personality was dropping off, and not replaced by anything....but there never was a one that ended everything....it came on by degrees, and each shift, while dramatic many times, was always recognized as the next thing (although sometimes recognized in retrospect). So there's a naturalness to the whole growth process. In other words, you are only going to lose as many boundaries and limitations as you are able to accept losing. And that's a visceral, instinctive level thing, so the willingness increases bit by bit over time. And the more the willingness increases, the more it has the ability to increase, so it's an exponential growth process. There's always WAY more in there than we could possibly imagine, but it leaves way faster than we could possibly expect.
I understand the urgency of no turning back, but it's not really like you have a choice. So you can relax with your urgency, because the urgency isn't going anywhere, you cannot lose it, and you don't have to worry about it. That is a natural part of the unfoldment process that kicks in when you need to move quickly. And obviously you do- hence the experience.
But Enlightenment is not going to save you from anything, because you have to 100% totally accept and allow the thing it's going to save you from in order to get there. Enlightenment can never be the means to any end or agenda, even a hidden one. Even one we hide from ourselves. And so total honesty is required. This stuff is hard, so we need to be nice to ourselves too. The more support we can give ourselves the better. It's d**n near impossible to be open enough to let this stuff in as it is, so what chance is there if we are being hard on ourselves too? That doesn't mean you cannot do it. You cannot NOT do it. You ARE doing it, and getting information and knowledge and such is important and highly useful. But the fear that it could not happen is unfounded. It's just a question of how bad you really want it.
Anyway, let me know if you have any questions. I hope that was useful...
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Post by robert on Feb 11, 2010 17:07:51 GMT -5
thanks and that's what i mean by technique acceptance because that IS a subtle tech. i was unclear in my question, i figured out many books ago that i was not going to find enlightenment by standing on one foot for 3 hours a day, or by holding a feeling of brotherly love in my heart for all of those whom i felt had slighted. because there can be no right or wrong in a perfect world. i have seen some things recently that were questions that i moved past years ago and when i came across them again all that i could say to myself was,' really" are we still here? so thanks for reminding me that those questions are as much a part of this as the people asking them and my impatience is one of those hurdles showing me that i am still resistant to much more than i am willing to admit .
RELAXING WITH URGENCY should probably have that tatoed across my forehead needless to say not my strongest subject which is probably why it came screaming out of the dark this morning. so thanks for catching that one.
and i must admit that i have kept hidden somewhere in the back of my mind that this path was going to save me from something i have to admit it because you called me on it so clearly i see it and i feel it lessening from the light shone upon it.
i think that the fear of it not happening is in part to my 44th birthday approaching although time has never really been an issue for me it must have been lurking in there somewhere.
but just out of curiosity what relaxation techniques do you LM use? i practice chi kung because i like it but have never really found anything else. just interested.
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Post by vacant on Feb 12, 2010 7:04:02 GMT -5
Robert, beautiful, the questioning and the replying, clear and to the point, you’re an inspiration. BTW I never knew chi-kung was a method of relaxation, I thought it was for building strength. One of my favorite relaxation techniques, and I’ve done for years, is walking around the room in a figure of 8 endlessly, mostly late at night, pushing aside the significance of any thought. I know it sounds kind of weird but we here don’t have a problem with that, I mean including the wife  . Thanks for your clarity and angst. |
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Post by vacant on Feb 12, 2010 7:06:00 GMT -5
LM,
that post must rank among your very best ones! You tend to always say the same stuff (that’s not a criticism in any way) but boy when you get in the grove… … well, I’m printing this one to read again later.
Actually, and tell me if I’m barking up the wrong tree, but I seem to be at a point where the frustration and its discomfort often turn into welcome events given to me by Life for me to give up a bit more —aint masochist, I swear! — that’s where my work is at the mo and honestly I feel I’m getting lighter in spite of the trouble.
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Post by lightmystic on Feb 12, 2010 11:16:21 GMT -5
hey robert, Glad to hear it. What do you mean by relaxation technique? I'm not sure that I do any relaxation techniques..... As I said before urgency is a good sign. Just keep going. If you have any questions, let me know, and we can poke it. thanks and that's what i mean by technique acceptance because that IS a subtle tech. i was unclear in my question, i figured out many books ago that i was not going to find enlightenment by standing on one foot for 3 hours a day, or by holding a feeling of brotherly love in my heart for all of those whom i felt had slighted. because there can be no right or wrong in a perfect world. i have seen some things recently that were questions that i moved past years ago and when i came across them again all that i could say to myself was,' really" are we still here? so thanks for reminding me that those questions are as much a part of this as the people asking them and my impatience is one of those hurdles showing me that i am still resistant to much more than i am willing to admit . RELAXING WITH URGENCY should probably have that tatoed across my forehead needless to say not my strongest subject which is probably why it came screaming out of the dark this morning. so thanks for catching that one. and i must admit that i have kept hidden somewhere in the back of my mind that this path was going to save me from something i have to admit it because you called me on it so clearly i see it and i feel it lessening from the light shone upon it. i think that the fear of it not happening is in part to my 44th birthday approaching although time has never really been an issue for me it must have been lurking in there somewhere. but just out of curiosity what relaxation techniques do you LM use? i practice chi kung because i like it but have never really found anything else. just interested. |
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Post by lightmystic on Feb 12, 2010 11:22:14 GMT -5
Thanks vacant, I used to post a bunch of stuff like that (you actually can probably find it in the archives). I used to go into my own experience and process and the process of getting through it, etc, etc.. But nowadays, I don't really have anything I need to say at all until someone asks me, as I usually won't get into what's the way of people directly unless they seem to be asking. I mean, I could share my experience, but I'm not really sure there's a point. And I don't have long stories and such that ZD has (I just don't have the desire to do that). And most people don't really want to delve into this stuff, which I fully understand, because it's scary. So there's not a lot to say much of the time.... Yes, frustration and discomfort are incredibly useful, because it means that a block has been found. Once as block is seen through clearly, then it's as good as over, as it's only a matter of time before that resistance unwinds with gentle attention and it's released. So there is great joy in discovering what's been tripping you up this whole time, because then it can be released and it's an opportunity to permanently have more. Ultimately, if you are getting freer over time, then that's what's useful. For some reason, I am unaware that I say the same thing all the time usually....what do I usually say? Anyway, if you have any other questions or desires to poke anything, I'm always happy to do that, as I don't really have anything to say most of the time until then... LM, that post must rank among your very best ones! You tend to always say the same stuff (that’s not a criticism in any way) but boy when you get in the grove… … well, I’m printing this one to read again later. Actually, and tell me if I’m barking up the wrong tree, but I seem to be at a point where the frustration and its discomfort often turn into welcome events given to me by Life for me to give up a bit more —aint masochist, I swear! — that’s where my work is at the mo and honestly I feel I’m getting lighter in spite of the trouble. |
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Post by maggie on Feb 12, 2010 12:32:30 GMT -5
L.M.
Thank you for the clear pointing...
To see what occurs naturally, the rising up of resistance and the willingness or no choice to look deeply into or encounter.... Usually in the form of some pain, felt as restriction, frustration,fear etc... The pain or off-ness, is intolerable these days. (It seems particularly unhelpful to deny it) Life does indeed provide all the material for this undoing.
I am deeply grateful for the poking and pointing something I come to this site to find, and appreciate....the honesty thing....the admitting I haven't got "it", and simply am right here, wherever that is in this moment. The feeling is its a lot easier to be looking and asking from here just as I am...
Seeing the resistance to death and life in each form I made up, yet knowing in Stillness none of it is....and willing to see what has to be seen through.
I've seen glimpses that this thing I am looking for is right under my nose in plain view, as always.
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Post by lightmystic on Feb 15, 2010 15:10:46 GMT -5
Thanks for your appreciation maggie. I've been quite enjoying your posts as well! Yes, you seem to be quite aware of what the unwinding process is. And, as GI Joe says, knowing is half the battle. L.M. Thank you for the clear pointing... To see what occurs naturally, the rising up of resistance and the willingness or no choice to look deeply into or encounter.... Usually in the form of some pain, felt as restriction, frustration,fear etc... The pain or off-ness, is intolerable these days. (It seems particularly unhelpful to deny it) Life does indeed provide all the material for this undoing. I am deeply grateful for the poking and pointing something I come to this site to find, and appreciate....the honesty thing....the admitting I haven't got "it", and simply am right here, wherever that is in this moment. The feeling is its a lot easier to be looking and asking from here just as I am... Seeing the resistance to death and life in each form I made up, yet knowing in Stillness none of it is....and willing to see what has to be seen through. I've seen glimpses that this thing I am looking for is right under my nose in plain view, as always. |
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Post by robert on Feb 15, 2010 20:23:08 GMT -5
everyone,
arrived safely in santa fe, 3 days of driving with 2 dogs and a cat in a isuzu rodeo while pulling a trailer, ouch. sorry i couldn't answer any of your replies. vacant, chi kung in the wu chi posture is the most relaxing meditation for me. as the postures become more demanding strength is the most obvious result, but with enough practice it is a meditative form like any other because the practice becomes a purely mental practice. walking figure 8's is walking chi kung as well as long as the posture is centered and the breath is a point of focus.
the pure exhuaustion from my trip took some of the angst out of my body while leaving the drive. now i get to fly home tommorrow and pick up our art, which i would never trust to a moving company, and do the drive again.
thank you all for your encouragment i will be back monday.
r.
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Post by karen on Feb 15, 2010 21:02:35 GMT -5
Safe trip on the part 2!
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Post by klaus on Feb 15, 2010 23:09:12 GMT -5
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Post by lightmystic on Feb 16, 2010 12:21:55 GMT -5
Glad to hear your trip is going well robert. I'll look forward to hearing from you when you get there. everyone, arrived safely in santa fe, 3 days of driving with 2 dogs and a cat in a isuzu rodeo while pulling a trailer, ouch. sorry i couldn't answer any of your replies. vacant, chi kung in the wu chi posture is the most relaxing meditation for me. as the postures become more demanding strength is the most obvious result, but with enough practice it is a meditative form like any other because the practice becomes a purely mental practice. walking figure 8's is walking chi kung as well as long as the posture is centered and the breath is a point of focus. the pure exhuaustion from my trip took some of the angst out of my body while leaving the drive. now i get to fly home tommorrow and pick up our art, which i would never trust to a moving company, and do the drive again. thank you all for your encouragment i will be back monday. r. |
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. Thanks for your clarity and angst.