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Post by lolly on Sept 23, 2023 21:10:07 GMT -5
I simply "googled" this: Glycogen is easier for the body to use as energy than fat, so it is used before fat. If your glycogen stores are full, your body doesn’t burn fat. To start burning fat, you need to diminish your glycogen stores so your body has no other choice than to use stored fat for energy1. Once the reserve of glycogen in the liver is depleted, the body taps into energy stores in adipose tissues. This is when fats are broken down into free fatty acids which are then converted into additional metabolic fuel in the liver2. Learn more: 1. noahstrength.com 2. noahstrength.com It's not accurate because the body is constantly storing and oxidating fat at the same time. However the rate of oxidation does NOT determine fat loss. Only if the rate of oxidation exceeds the rate of storage does the body lose fat.
When the body has glucose available, it prefers that fuel source so it doesn't oxidise as much fat. Fatty acids are hence not oxidised and put into fat storage. If the body has depleted its glucose it turns to fat for energy, but if you eat more fat rather than carbs, sure more fat is burned, but more fat is stored as well. If you eat more carbs and less fat, less fat is stored, but less is burned. Hencewhy the only thing that makes a difference to body-weight is calorie balance.
The 'fat burning zone' in cardio training has long been debunked. Sure when glycogen is depleted the body turns to fat for energy, but as soon as you eat, the same principle in the above paragraph applies. Hence it's calories in vs. calories out, and different rates of oxidation compared to storage are indeed true, but make no difference at all to changes in body weight.
We are actually thinking in entirely the wrong way. The right way is fewer calories reduce overall body weight, and protein (especially when coupled with resistance exercise) preserve lean mass. Therefore, fewer calories with high protein coupled with resistance activity is optimal for losing fat.
The above paragraph is the key.
The above is also why meal timing is actually the 2nd lowest priority in nutrition (nutritional supplementation is lowest). Timing is just what an individual is most likely to adhere to and adopt into their overall lifestyle. Guys like Fung who insist IF is a high priority are wrong about that, but a large number of people find it sustainable and it's appropriate for them. Other people just love breakfast and a morning coffee. IF is unlikely sustainable in that case. They will not adhere to it, but it doesn't matter. We just find the meal/snack timing that they find easiest - meaning it's more cohesive with the rest of their lifestyle.
I'm glad that IF works best for you and totally encourage it, but meal timing isn't important because it doesn't make any difference to changes in body weight, and available glucose makes no difference to fat loss.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 24, 2023 3:37:27 GMT -5
I simply "googled" this: Glycogen is easier for the body to use as energy than fat, so it is used before fat. If your glycogen stores are full, your body doesn’t burn fat. To start burning fat, you need to diminish your glycogen stores so your body has no other choice than to use stored fat for energy1. Once the reserve of glycogen in the liver is depleted, the body taps into energy stores in adipose tissues. This is when fats are broken down into free fatty acids which are then converted into additional metabolic fuel in the liver2. Learn more: 1. noahstrength.com 2. noahstrength.com It's not accurate because the body is constantly storing and oxidating fat at the same time. However the rate of oxidation does NOT determine fat loss. Only if the rate of oxidation exceeds the rate of storage does the body lose fat.
When the body has glucose available, it prefers that fuel source so it doesn't oxidise as much fat. Fatty acids are hence not oxidised and put into fat storage. If the body has depleted its glucose it turns to fat for energy, but if you eat more fat rather than carbs, sure more fat is burned, but more fat is stored as well. If you eat more carbs and less fat, less fat is stored, but less is burned. Hencewhy the only thing that makes a difference to body-weight is calorie balance. The 'fat burning zone' in cardio training has long been debunked. Sure when glycogen is depleted the body turns to fat for energy, but as soon as you eat, the same principle in the above paragraph applies. Hence it's calories in vs. calories out, and different rates of oxidation compared to storage are indeed true, but make no difference at all to changes in body weight.
We are actually thinking in entirely the wrong way. The right way is fewer calories reduce overall body weight, and protein (especially when coupled with resistance exercise) preserve lean mass. Therefore, fewer calories with high protein coupled with resistance activity is optimal for losing fat.
The above paragraph is the key.
The above is also why meal timing is actually the 2nd lowest priority in nutrition (nutritional supplementation is lowest). Timing is just what an individual is most likely to adhere to and adopt into their overall lifestyle. Guys like Fung who insist IF is a high priority are wrong about that, but a large number of people find it sustainable and it's appropriate for them. Other people just love breakfast and a morning coffee. IF is unlikely sustainable in that case. They will not adhere to it, but it doesn't matter. We just find the meal/snack timing that they find easiest - meaning it's more cohesive with the rest of their lifestyle. I'm glad that IF works best for you and totally encourage it, but meal timing isn't important because it doesn't make any difference to changes in body weight, and available glucose makes no difference to fat loss.
lolly, can you give me a source reference for your view? |
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Post by lolly on Sept 24, 2023 4:13:11 GMT -5
The video I posted of Layne Norton's Response to Jason Fung gives a good explanation and cites some research at about 9:30, He goes over it again in this video at around 6:30 - the whole video is worth a look and Norton is a very good source of nutrition information
PS: protein in regards to body composition @ 24 mins.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 24, 2023 4:38:56 GMT -5
I will look at your new video. This is the book wherein I learned how insulin works in the body. I didn't learn it from Jason Fung. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 24, 2023 4:58:21 GMT -5
The video I posted of Layne Norton's Response to Jason Fung gives a good explanation and cites some research at about 9:30, He goes over it again in this video at around 6:30 - the whole video is worth a look and Norton is a very good source of nutrition information PS: protein in regards to body composition @ 24 mins.
Thanks. I looked at his source, 20 people, 4 weeks. His source, even for just 4 weeks, proves my source is correct (a low carb diet results in lower glucose and insulin levels in the blood), quoted below. 4 weeks is not enough to measure weight loss. [If you want to know about weight loss, watch the program Alone. It's the real Survivor TV program. Presently, this season they're in Australia]. And note in the low fat diet part of the study they ate 700 fewer calories a day. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The plant-based, low-fat diet contained about 10% fat and 75% carbohydrate. The animal-based, low-carb diet was about 10% carbohydrate and 75% fat. Both contained about 14% protein and were matched for total calories. However, the low-carb diet had twice as many calories per gram than the low-fat diet, and the low-fat diet resulted in much higher insulin levels after meals. Both diets were minimally processed and had equivalent amounts of non-starchy vegetables. When on the low-fat diet, the participants ate 550 to 700 fewer calories per day than when on the low-carb diet. Despite the large differences in calorie intake, they reported no differences in hunger, enjoyment of meals, or fullness between the two diets. People lost weight on both diets, but only the low-fat diet led to a significant loss of body fat. The low-fat diet resulted in higher blood glucose and insulin levels compared with the low-carb diet. This is a concern because variable glucose levels can be a risk factor for coronary artery disease. “Interestingly, our findings suggest benefits to both diets, at least in the short-term. While the low-fat, plant-based diet helps curb appetite, the animal-based, low-carb diet resulted in lower and more steady insulin and glucose levels,” Hall says. “We don’t yet know if these differences would be sustained over the long term.” The researchers note that the study was not designed to make diet recommendations for weight loss. Results may have been different if the participants were actively trying to lose weight. Further, results may be different outside the lab, in which all meals were prepared and provided in a tightly controlled clinical environment. Factors such as food costs, food availability, and meal preparation constraints can make adherence to diets challenging. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On the low fat, they ate significantly fewer calories (they could eat however much they wanted to eat) and they lost more body fat. I'd say this shows they lost more fat because they ate fewer calories. For my purposes, the insulin levels and the glucose levels are what's significant. |
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Post by lolly on Sept 24, 2023 6:11:02 GMT -5
The video I posted of Layne Norton's Response to Jason Fung gives a good explanation and cites some research at about 9:30, He goes over it again in this video at around 6:30 - the whole video is worth a look and Norton is a very good source of nutrition information PS: protein in regards to body composition @ 24 mins.
Thanks. I looked at his source, 20 people, 4 weeks. His source, even for just 4 weeks, proves my source is correct (a low carb diet results in lower glucose and insulin levels in the blood), quoted below. 4 weeks is not enough to measure weight loss. [If you want to know about weight loss, watch the program Alone. It's the real Survivor TV program. Presently, this season they're in Australia]. And note in the low fat diet part of the study they ate 700 fewer calories a day. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The plant-based, low-fat diet contained about 10% fat and 75% carbohydrate. The animal-based, low-carb diet was about 10% carbohydrate and 75% fat. Both contained about 14% protein and were matched for total calories. However, the low-carb diet had twice as many calories per gram than the low-fat diet, and the low-fat diet resulted in much higher insulin levels after meals. Both diets were minimally processed and had equivalent amounts of non-starchy vegetables. When on the low-fat diet, the participants ate 550 to 700 fewer calories per day than when on the low-carb diet. Despite the large differences in calorie intake, they reported no differences in hunger, enjoyment of meals, or fullness between the two diets. People lost weight on both diets, but only the low-fat diet led to a significant loss of body fat. The low-fat diet resulted in higher blood glucose and insulin levels compared with the low-carb diet. This is a concern because variable glucose levels can be a risk factor for coronary artery disease. “Interestingly, our findings suggest benefits to both diets, at least in the short-term. While the low-fat, plant-based diet helps curb appetite, the animal-based, low-carb diet resulted in lower and more steady insulin and glucose levels,” Hall says. “We don’t yet know if these differences would be sustained over the long term.” The researchers note that the study was not designed to make diet recommendations for weight loss. Results may have been different if the participants were actively trying to lose weight. Further, results may be different outside the lab, in which all meals were prepared and provided in a tightly controlled clinical environment. Factors such as food costs, food availability, and meal preparation constraints can make adherence to diets challenging. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On the low fat, they ate significantly fewer calories (they could eat however much they wanted to eat) and they lost more body fat. I'd say this shows they lost more fat because they ate fewer calories. For my purposes, the insulin levels and the glucose levels are what's significant. They basically mark carb and fat molecules and trace them. After 4 weeks they take a fat biopsy and can see which markers appear in fat cells. Hence they find markers from consumed fat predominate over markers from carbs in fat deposits. Apart from that study, there are multiple others and it's well established in the literature. This is also cohesive with fat loss trials that show when calories and protein are equated, low fat compared to low carb diets, or IF compared to regular meals makes no difference to fat loss. It's established in multiple meta-analyses, so people who make claims to the contrary are not speaking to the evidence.
If a plant based diet is high in protein it will necessarily be a high carb/low fat diet because primary protein sources are high in carbs. Of course a high carb intake will elevate insulin, but vegans/vegitarians on such well balanced diets do not have a high risk of diet related disease.
Your summary of the compared diets with regards to weight loss contradicts the broader body of evidence, so I'm sceptical of their methodology. Send me the study and I'll point out where it went wrong. If the calories and protein were actually equated there would have been no difference in fat loss.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 24, 2023 8:29:20 GMT -5
Decided to ask ChatGPT ai about insulin.
Can you please explain the role in insulin in the body, how it controls the storage of fat and what insulin resistance is.
ChatGPT
Certainly! Insulin is a hormone produced by the pancreas that plays a crucial role in regulating the levels of glucose (sugar) in the bloodstream. Its primary functions in the body include:
Glucose Regulation: When you consume carbohydrates (such as sugars and starches) from your diet, they are broken down into glucose, which enters the bloodstream. Elevated blood glucose levels can be harmful, so insulin is released in response to rising blood sugar levels. Insulin helps glucose enter cells, particularly muscle and fat cells, where it can be used for energy or stored for later use.
Promoting Glucose Uptake: Insulin acts as a key that unlocks the doors of cells, allowing glucose to enter. This process is crucial for providing cells with the energy they need to function properly.
Storage of Excess Glucose: When there is an excess of glucose in the bloodstream (commonly after a meal), insulin facilitates the conversion of this excess glucose into glycogen, which is stored in the liver and muscle cells. This stored glycogen can be converted back into glucose when the body needs energy.
Inhibiting Fat Breakdown: Insulin also inhibits the breakdown of stored fat in adipose (fat) tissue. When insulin levels are high, as they typically are after eating, the body tends to store excess calories as fat rather than burning them for energy.
Now, let's talk about insulin resistance:
Insulin Resistance: Insulin resistance is a condition in which the body's cells become less responsive to the effects of insulin. As a result, the pancreas produces more insulin to compensate for the reduced effectiveness, leading to elevated levels of insulin in the bloodstream. Insulin resistance can occur for several reasons, including genetic factors, obesity, a sedentary lifestyle, and poor dietary habits.
When a person is insulin resistant, the body's cells have difficulty taking up glucose from the bloodstream, even when insulin levels are high. This can lead to several consequences:
Elevated Blood Sugar: Since cells are not effectively taking up glucose, blood sugar levels remain higher than normal, which can increase the risk of type 2 diabetes.
Increased Fat Storage: Insulin's ability to inhibit fat breakdown is still intact in insulin resistance. This means that despite having high insulin levels, the body may continue to store fat, contributing to weight gain and obesity.
Higher Risk of Metabolic Disorders: Insulin resistance is associated with an increased risk of various metabolic disorders, including type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and fatty liver disease.
Managing insulin resistance typically involves lifestyle changes such as adopting a healthier diet, increasing physical activity, and, in some cases, medication. By improving insulin sensitivity, individuals with insulin resistance can better control their blood sugar levels and reduce the risk of associated health problems.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 24, 2023 8:39:02 GMT -5
And I had a follow-up question for ChatGPT ai.
Please explain the process of how fat in the body is converted to glucose and therefore how one loses stored fat resulting in weight loss.
ChatGPT
The process of converting fat in the body into glucose is known as "gluconeogenesis." It's important to note that this process is not the primary way the body generates glucose for energy under normal conditions, as glucose is primarily obtained from dietary carbohydrates. However, when glucose from food is limited, or during periods of fasting or prolonged exercise, the body can use alternative sources to produce glucose, including fat.
Here's a simplified explanation of how fat can be converted to glucose and contribute to weight loss:
Fatty Acid Breakdown: The body stores excess calories as fat in adipose tissue. When there is a need for energy, such as during fasting or intense exercise, hormones like glucagon are released. Glucagon signals fat cells to break down triglycerides (the storage form of fat) into fatty acids and glycerol.
Transport of Fatty Acids: Fatty acids released from fat cells are transported through the bloodstream to various tissues, including the liver.
Glycerol Conversion: Glycerol, a component of triglycerides, can be converted into glucose in the liver through a process called gluconeogenesis. This newly synthesized glucose can then be released into the bloodstream to provide energy for the body's cells.
Fatty Acid Utilization: Fatty acids themselves cannot be directly converted into glucose. Instead, they can be used as an energy source by various tissues, particularly muscle cells and certain organs. This spares glucose for the tissues that rely on it as their primary energy source, such as the brain.
Calorie Deficit: To lose weight (burn stored fat), you need to create a calorie deficit, which means you are burning more calories than you consume through food. When there's a calorie deficit, your body will tap into its fat stores for energy, leading to a reduction in fat mass.
It's important to emphasize that the process of converting fat to glucose is not a rapid or efficient way to meet the body's energy needs. The body prefers to use glucose from carbohydrates because it's a more readily available and efficient source of energy. Fat breakdown for energy typically occurs over an extended period and can be influenced by factors such as the type of diet you follow, your activity level, and the duration of fasting or calorie restriction.
For effective and sustainable weight loss, it's generally recommended to focus on creating a calorie deficit through a balanced diet and regular physical activity rather than relying solely on fat-to-glucose conversion. Additionally, consult with a healthcare provider or registered dietitian before making significant changes to your diet or exercise routine, especially if you have underlying health conditions.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 24, 2023 8:52:09 GMT -5
A follow-up question for ChatGPT ai.
User
Does a physical body, typically, say in a 24 hour period, or even continuously, convert body fat to glucose and convert excess calories into body fat? If not can you explain why not? In other words, what must occur for the body to convert stored fat to glucose?
ChatGPT
The conversion of stored body fat into glucose is a complex process that occurs continuously in the body to some extent, but it's tightly regulated and not the primary source of glucose for energy under normal conditions. Here's how it works:
Continuous Fat Breakdown: Even when you're not in a fasting state or actively engaged in exercise, your body still breaks down a small amount of stored fat into fatty acids and glycerol for various metabolic processes. This happens to maintain energy balance and meet the energy needs of various tissues, such as muscle and organs.
Glucose Production via Glycerol: As mentioned earlier, glycerol, one component of triglycerides (stored fat), can be converted into glucose through gluconeogenesis in the liver. This process occurs continually to ensure that there's a minimal supply of glucose available, even in the absence of dietary carbohydrates.
Glucose from Dietary Carbohydrates: The primary source of glucose for the body is the carbohydrates consumed in your diet. When you eat carbohydrates, they are broken down into glucose, absorbed into the bloodstream, and used for energy or stored as glycogen in the liver and muscles.
Insulin Regulation: When you consume excess calories, whether from carbohydrates, fats, or proteins, and your body does not immediately need the energy, insulin is released to facilitate the storage of excess calories. Carbohydrates are primarily stored as glycogen, while excess dietary fat is stored as triglycerides in adipose tissue.
Energy Balance: To lose stored body fat, you need to create a calorie deficit by burning more calories than you consume over an extended period. When you maintain a calorie deficit, your body gradually taps into its fat stores for energy. This process involves the breakdown of triglycerides into fatty acids, which can be used as an energy source by various tissues and organs.
So, to answer your question: Yes, the body continuously breaks down stored fat into glucose to some extent, primarily through the conversion of glycerol. However, this process is typically modest and contributes only a small portion of the body's overall glucose needs. The body prefers to use dietary carbohydrates as the primary source of glucose when available.
For significant fat loss, creating a sustained calorie deficit through a combination of a balanced diet and regular physical activity is the most effective approach. This encourages the body to gradually utilize stored fat for energy over an extended period, leading to weight loss.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 24, 2023 9:08:58 GMT -5
Another follow-up question for ChatGPT ai.
User
Insulin resistance if not solved will lead to type 2 diabetes, and other health problems. Can you explain the best way for the body to overcome insulin resistance and begin to function normally concerning how the body uses glucose from eating and stored body fat?
ChatGPT
Overcoming insulin resistance and improving the body's ability to use glucose efficiently is crucial for preventing or managing type 2 diabetes and reducing the risk of other associated health problems. Here are some key strategies to help the body overcome insulin resistance and function more effectively concerning glucose utilization:
Dietary Modifications:
Control Carbohydrate Intake: Focus on consuming complex carbohydrates (e.g., whole grains, vegetables, legumes) rather than simple sugars. Limit sugary foods and beverages.
Balanced Meals: Eat balanced meals that include lean protein, healthy fats, and high-fiber foods. This can help stabilize blood sugar levels.
Avoid Overeating: Monitor portion sizes and avoid overeating, as excess calorie intake can contribute to insulin resistance.
Weight Management:
Lose Excess Weight: Achieving and maintaining a healthy weight can significantly improve insulin sensitivity. Even a modest weight loss (5-10% of body weight) can have a positive impact.
Regular Physical Activity:
Exercise Regularly: Engaging in regular physical activity helps muscles take up glucose without the need for as much insulin. Aim for a combination of aerobic exercise (like brisk walking) and strength training.
Stress Management:
Reduce Stress: Chronic stress can contribute to insulin resistance. Practice stress-reduction techniques such as meditation, yoga, deep breathing, or mindfulness.
Adequate Sleep:
Prioritize Sleep: Getting enough quality sleep is essential for overall health and can help regulate hormones, including insulin.
Hydration:
Stay Hydrated: Dehydration can affect insulin sensitivity, so ensure you're adequately hydrated.
Medical Intervention:
Medications: In some cases, healthcare providers may prescribe medications to improve insulin sensitivity or manage blood sugar levels. Common medications include metformin and insulin sensitizers like thiazolidinediones.
Regular Monitoring:
Monitor Blood Sugar: Regularly check your blood sugar levels as advised by your healthcare provider to track your progress and make necessary adjustments to your treatment plan.
Lifestyle Changes:
Long-Term Commitment: It's important to recognize that overcoming insulin resistance is a long-term commitment. Sustainable changes to your diet and lifestyle are essential for lasting results.
Consult a Healthcare Provider:
Seek Professional Guidance: If you suspect or have been diagnosed with insulin resistance or prediabetes, consult a healthcare provider or registered dietitian. They can provide personalized recommendations and monitor your progress.
It's important to note that individual responses to these strategies can vary, and what works best for one person may not work as effectively for another. A healthcare provider can help tailor a plan that suits your specific needs and circumstances.
By implementing these lifestyle changes and potentially utilizing medical interventions when necessary, many individuals can improve their insulin sensitivity, prevent or manage type 2 diabetes, and reduce the risk of associated health problems.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 24, 2023 9:17:56 GMT -5
One last question for ChatGPT ai.
One more follow-up question. With the proper diet, nutrition, exercise and your other recommendations above, is type 2 diabetes reversible?
ChatGPT
Type 2 diabetes can sometimes be reversible or well-managed to the point where it is effectively in remission. However, the degree of reversibility or remission can vary among individuals and depends on several factors, including the duration of the diabetes, the severity of insulin resistance, and genetics.
Here's what you need to know about reversing or managing type 2 diabetes:
Achieving Remission: Some people with newly diagnosed type 2 diabetes who make significant lifestyle changes, including adopting a healthy diet, engaging in regular physical activity, and losing excess weight, can achieve remission. Remission means that blood sugar levels return to normal or near-normal without the need for diabetes medication. However, it's important to maintain these healthy habits to sustain remission.
Sustaining Remission: Sustaining remission often requires ongoing lifestyle changes and monitoring. If individuals revert to unhealthy habits, such as poor diet and sedentary behavior, diabetes can re-emerge.
Individual Variation: The potential for reversing or managing type 2 diabetes can vary from person to person. Some individuals may achieve remission relatively quickly, while others may take longer or may not achieve full remission.
Medical Supervision: It's crucial to work closely with a healthcare provider or diabetes specialist when attempting to achieve remission. They can provide guidance, monitor your progress, and adjust your treatment plan as needed.
Genetic Factors: Genetic factors can influence how the body responds to lifestyle changes and medication. Some individuals may have a genetic predisposition that makes it more challenging to achieve remission.
Long-Term Management: Even if type 2 diabetes goes into remission, it's important to recognize that diabetes can be a chronic condition. Long-term management is often required to maintain good blood sugar control and prevent complications. This may involve periodic monitoring, ongoing healthy habits, and, in some cases, medication.
In summary, while it's possible for some individuals to achieve remission of type 2 diabetes through lifestyle changes, the degree of reversibility and the long-term outcome can vary. The key to success is making sustainable, healthy lifestyle choices, including a balanced diet, regular exercise, and weight management, along with ongoing medical supervision. If you or someone you know has type 2 diabetes and is interested in attempting remission, it's essential to consult with a healthcare provider to create a personalized plan tailored to your specific needs and circumstances.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 24, 2023 9:32:29 GMT -5
I "inherited" my Mother's blood glucose meter. Last year I saved one strip to use just before my yearly doctor's visit. I was OK (after 8+ hours fasting) so I felt confident my doctor would be happy with my bloodwork. He was. So I haven't checked by blood sugar for ten months. Exchanging messages with my sister Friday she told me her doctor wanted to start her on statins to lower her cholesterol. She asked me what I thought. I said, I'll bring you a book on cholesterol I needed to return something anyway. Saturday morning I did my normal greens mix and my not-with-food supplements, got to my sisters about 11:15. By about 1:15 I thought about checking my blood glucose, I had probably gone at least 16 hours without eating. My blood glucose was 89, very good. (Anything below 100 is good. That's from the Richard K Bernstein MD book I linked, Diabetic Solutions. My doctor says 118 or below is OK, don't believe him). So from that I know what I'm doing is succeeding, and seeing my doctor in 2 months everything should be fine.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 24, 2023 10:22:28 GMT -5
We're had the keto diet debate before, I'm not interested in getting into that, as I haven't specifically brought it up on this thread. (Implicitly, I'm sure you noted). But I was very curious about your guy's saying we constantly convert body fat back and forth from storage to use. I asked ChatGPT that earlier, your guy is correct. But when I finished that line of questions I was still curious, and was also curious why ChatGPT didn't mention ketosis in its answer about burning body fat. So I put this question, below. Incidentally, I've had a ketosis breath meter for over 2 years. (I investigated, it's better than urine sticks and much, much cheaper than a ketone blood meter). When I got it I found it's actually crazy hard to get into ketosis. On my meter anything over zero is ketosis to some extent. It took me over 3 weeks to get above zero. However, staying on my low carbs high fat diet (which is basically a keto diet), I was in ketosis daily. My meter goes up to 9.5. I always wake up in ketosis, I check before drinking anything. I have used this as a measure for keeping my blood sugar within normal numbers, the reason essentially given in the ChatGPT answer (I described above how I hadn't actually checked my blood glucose in ten months, until yesterday, it was very OK, 89).
So, I had been using ketosis as a measure of burning body fat. This is not exactly correct, as you, your guy, and ChatGPT said we do actually convert some body fat for the body's use continually.
What is ketosis? What does it mean for the body to be in ketosis? How does the body go into ketosis?
ChatGPT
Ketosis is a metabolic state in which the body primarily uses fat as its primary source of energy instead of carbohydrates. This metabolic state occurs when there is a shortage of carbohydrates available for energy production, leading the body to break down fats into molecules called ketones to fuel various bodily functions, including the brain.
Here's how the process of ketosis works:
Carbohydrate Restriction: To enter ketosis, one typically needs to significantly reduce their carbohydrate intake. This can be achieved through a low-carbohydrate or ketogenic diet. In a standard diet, carbohydrates are the body's primary source of energy. When carbohydrate intake is restricted, the body starts to look for alternative fuel sources.
Depletion of Glycogen Stores: The body stores carbohydrates in the form of glycogen in the liver and muscles. When you reduce your carb intake, the body begins to use up these glycogen stores for energy. Glycogen is also stored with water, so its depletion can lead to initial water weight loss.
Increased Fat Breakdown: As glycogen stores deplete, the body starts breaking down stored fat into fatty acids. These fatty acids are transported to the liver and converted into ketones, which can be used by various tissues, including the brain, for energy.
Ketone Production: Ketones (specifically beta-hydroxybutyrate, acetoacetate, and acetone) are water-soluble molecules that can cross the blood-brain barrier, providing energy to the brain when glucose availability is limited. Ketones can also be used by muscles and other organs.
Achieving and Maintaining Ketosis: To maintain ketosis, it's crucial to continue limiting carbohydrate intake and consume moderate amounts of protein. The exact macronutrient ratios for achieving ketosis can vary among individuals, but a common guideline is to aim for a diet where carbohydrates make up less than 10% of your daily caloric intake, with the majority of calories coming from fats and a moderate amount from protein.
Ketosis is often sought after for its potential benefits, such as weight loss, improved insulin sensitivity, and enhanced mental clarity. However, it's important to approach a ketogenic diet carefully and consult with a healthcare professional, especially if you have underlying health conditions. Ketosis is not suitable for everyone, and it may have side effects, including the "keto flu," which can cause fatigue, nausea, and other symptoms during the initial transition period. Additionally, long-term adherence to a ketogenic diet should be monitored to ensure nutritional adequacy.
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Post by lolly on Sept 24, 2023 23:45:45 GMT -5
Chat is dropping the truth bombs. I don't want to spend too long debunking diet gurus, but I always find in nutrition discussions it becomes a thing, and I don't want people to believe idiots like Fung and the other guy, who might know a thing or two about medicine and hormones, but not nutrition. Their main problem is they give highest priority to things that barely matter. If you don't have priorities in the right order you have no way of assessing your nutrition on a spectrum. If you have priorities in order you can at least meet the highest priority, and from there, any lower priority you also meet is 'even better'. Life is messy. You have a great plan, and then there's parties, drinks at the office, festive occasions, going on vay-kay etc. Indeed, all social-live gatherings involve putting stuff in your face-hole.
To navigate the messiness of it, you have to think in the right way, understand what matters most, and what matters least.
The most important thing is calories. Without them you die. If you have too many you get fat. Whether your goal is to lose fat, gain muscle, or just maintain current proportions, you can at least maintain your appropriate calorie intake. That way if you are on the road or there's a bunch of social things to do, you don't have to be in control. You can eat whatever food is there at any time of the day - and if keeping calories on track is all you can do, that's good. Realistically, when socialise, for example - there's snacks and beer, then a meal comes out with wine, and even though you're full, there's still a desert - and you need two helpings. IOW no one is going to stick to their calorie quota on festive occasions. But you strategise. You know it's party time this Saturday, so consume fewer calories on the days leading up and if you blow out on the occasion, consume fewer on the days following. If it's holiday season, like Christmas season, there's party after party all the way through to NYE. If you can strategise in a flexible way so that you do not exceed your calorie quote over that time period, that's excellent. It's as good as anyone could do. It's next to impossible to IF or low-carb in such circumstances, but that's OK because those things really low priority and you can just get the calorie thing right. If you're on the road and eat take out and eat out, keeping it really simple is best. E.g. If you get a steak with veges you know what's there, but if you get a pasta or something, how much sauce? How much oil? How much cheese? You can't possibly know how many calories you eat. Just eat-out food simple so you can at least adhere to your calorie quota while knowing that's about the best one can do under the circumstances. That's just a couple of ideas to portray how to think about things, and I hope it clarifies how calories are the highest priority, not just to survive, but also when they are over abundant. Since calories come from macro-nutrients, protein fat and carbs are the second priority. These are also prioritised. There are essential proteins and protein is the most important source of calories. If you get about 0.7g of protein per pound of body weight everyday you're pretty much on track. The reason it's so important is you need it to maintain or accrue lean body mass. If you don't consume adequate protein a larger portion of any weight you lose will be muscle mass, when the goal is to lose fat. In weight loss we want to lose fat, and the more lean mass you retain, the more fat you lose. If you want to gain some weight, you want to gain muscle. It's very rare that an individual needs to be fatter. It happens for bodybuilders after a show or boxers after weighing in for the fight and stuff, and for people who are borderline anorexic, but other than that, no one. In short, Protein is most important because it it is essential for lean mass. The second most important macro is fat. There are essential fats we can only get form food, and fat plays a major role in hormone regulation. The last macro is carbs. Carbs are not essential. We don't need any, but all your veg and fruit come with carbs, and the pasta, rice, bread, legumes, nuts etc are loaded. Once you allocate your protein quota say 0.8 g per pound of body weight, and allocate a fat quota (usually comes with animal products, cooking oils and some veg such as nuts, avocados etc), you'll find there's not many calories left for carbs. If your life is messy for some reason and all you can do is keep calories in check and also get adequate daily protein, that's 'even better' than just maintaining appropriate calories. It really doesn't matter if you get more fat or more carbs per-se, so low carb or low fat merely suits individual preferences and tops up the short fall for the calories you get from protein. The third priority is micro nutrients - the vitamins and minerals we get mainly from vege material. If your calories are on point and your protein is adequate and you consume a range of colourful veges, greens and stuff, that's even more betterer. It's about as good as it gets - it's 95% there. The fourth priority is meal timing. That just means how the above is scheduled in accordance to individual lifestyles. Ideally we should get a constant stream of nutrients, and people tend toward 3 meals and a couple of snacks in line with their hunger cues. Some don't get hungry till later the day, so fine. Some find IF a workable strategy, fine. Some people require so many calories that need 5 or 6 meals to get it in. Fine. A very petite woman needing very few calories might do only 2 meals. Fine. A large male doing physical work might do brekky, smoko, lunch, afternoon tea, dinner, snackos. Also fine. If you hit calories, get all your nutrients and stick to your meal times - really, really, really good. The last and lowest priority is supplementation. If all of the above is on point, a person will not need much nutritional supplementation if any. Supplementation is not a food replacement, so there's really no point doing supplements unless proper real food consumption is pretty well established. Supplements only serve two purposes: for convenience (such as a protein shake while on the run), and to optimise an already very good diet. The order of priority is: calories; macros; micros; meal times and; supplements. If you approach thinking about nutrition with the right priorities, not only do you focus on the foods you actually need most, but you don't have to 'stick to your diet'. If for any reason all you can do is hit your calories, that's good. Then, the rest is better, even better, great, fantastic and excellent. This allows people to manage their crazy lives through festive seasons, travel, party time, vacay, celebrations and otherwise enjoy culture, family and social life to the fullest without blowing out or feeling like they are fucking up their diet. Having strategy enables you to over-eat when you just know you will and stay on track no matter what life throws at you. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 25, 2023 8:44:44 GMT -5
This is what happens when we fast. This describes up to 5 days fasting. This is where I got: "We don't burn body fat until we exhaust the stores in the liver and glycogen in the muscles". (No problem, I can agree with the source that says we continually convert some body fat daily). This is why it took me, originally, 3 weeks to get into ketosis. (I wasn't fasting continually. Cutting out all bread, sweets, sugar, white rice, white potatoes, etc. it took that long to deplete my muscle-glycogen energy stores and my liver stores). Now my body is keto-adapted, my body can easily switch from burning food-calories to burning fat for fuel. One advantage, I never have energy highs and lows, my body doesn't demand I eat something. Also, I virtually never get hungry.
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What Happens When We Fast? The process of using and storing food energy that occurs when we eat goes in reverse when we fast. Insulin levels drop, signaling the body to start burning stored energy. Glycogen (the glucose that’s stored in the liver) is the most easily accessible energy source, and the liver stores enough to provide energy for twenty-four hours or so. After that, the body starts to break down stored body fat for energy. So you see, the body really only exists in two states—the fed (high-insulin) state and the fasted (low-insulin) state. Either we are storing food energy or we are burning food energy. If eating and fasting are balanced, then there is no net weight gain. If, however, we spend the majority of the day storing food energy (because we’re in the fed state), then over time, we will gain weight. What is needed then is to restore balance by increasing the amount of time we burn food energy (by going into the fasted state).The transition from the fed state to the fasted state occurs in several stages, as classically described by George Cahill, one of the leading experts in fasting physiology:
1.Feeding: Blood sugar levels rise as we absorb the incoming food, and insulin levels rise in response to move glucose into cells, which use it for energy. Excess glucose is stored as glycogen in the liver or converted to fat.
2.The postabsorptive phase (six to twenty-four hours after beginning fasting): At this point, blood sugar and insulin levels begin to fall. To supply energy, the liver starts to break down glycogen, releasing glucose. Glycogen stores last for approximately twenty-four to thirty-six hours.
3. Gluconeogenesis (twenty-four hours to two days after beginning fasting): At this point, glycogen stores have runout. The liver manufactures new glucose from amino acids in a process called gluconeogenesis (literally, “making new glucose”). In nondiabetic persons, glucose levels fall but stay within the normal range.
4. Ketosis (two to three days after beginning fasting): Low insulin levels stimulate lipolysis, the breakdown of fat for energy. Triglycerides, the form of fat used for storage, are broken into the glycerol backbone and three fatty acid chains. The glycerol is used for gluconeogenesis, so the amino acids formerly used can be reserved for protein synthesis. The fatty acids are used directly for energy by most tissues of the body, though not the brain. The body uses fatty acids to produce ketone bodies, which are capable of crossing the blood-brain barrier and are used by the
brain for energy. After four days of fasting, approximately 75 percent of the energy used by the brain is provided by ketones. The two major types of ketones produced are beta-hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate, which can increase over seventyfold during fasting.
5. The protein conservation phase (five days after beginning fasting): High levels of growth hormone maintain muscle mass and lean tissues. The energy for basic metabolism is almost entirely supplied by fatty acids and ketones. Blood glucose is maintained by gluconeogenesis using glycerol. Increased norepinephrine (adrenaline)levels prevent any decrease in metabolic rate. There is a normal amount of protein turnover, but it is not being used for energy. ~~~~~~end George Cahill quote
In essence, what we are describing here is the process of switching from burning glucose to burning fat. Fat is simply the body’s stored food energy. In times of low food availability, stored food is naturally released to fill the void. The body does not “burn muscle” in an effort to feed itself until all the fat stores are used up.
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