|
|
Post by zazeniac on Jun 14, 2023 12:01:37 GMT -5
Resistance is much more than just futile. Resistance to what is IS separation. It concocts this I/other experience. The funny thing is if you perceive resistance as an obstacle or a hurdle to overcome, you're just chasing your tail. This is why stillness is a key. It's also quite funny. Peace.
|
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 14, 2023 12:15:17 GMT -5
Resistance is much more than just futile. Resistance to what is IS separation. It concocts this I/other experience. The funny thing is if you perceive resistance as an obstacle or a hurdle to overcome, you're just chasing your tail. This is why stillness is a key. It's also quite funny. Peace. E Pluribus Unum = hierarchy. (It doesn't bother me if you say it's irrelevant or imaginary). Heirarchy means resistance is obligatory. Life is a school. All that makes me almost alone here, ST's forum, no problem. I have no problem with the realization of ND. But that's the beginning/starting point, not the end. |
|
|
|
Post by zazeniac on Jun 14, 2023 12:26:44 GMT -5
Resistance is much more than just futile. Resistance to what is IS separation. It concocts this I/other experience. The funny thing is if you perceive resistance as an obstacle or a hurdle to overcome, you're just chasing your tail. This is why stillness is a key. It's also quite funny. Peace. E Pluribus Unum = hierarchy. (It doesn't bother me if you say it's irrelevant or imaginary). Heirarchy means resistance is obligatory. Life is a school. All that makes me almost alone here, ST's forum, no problem. I have no problem with the realization of ND. But that's the beginning/starting point, not the end. Maybe it is. I saw a funny gag. A cop walking down a sidewalk starts jumping in puddles and splashing folks. Most resist. Run away. Seek cover. Get angry. But a few, mostly kids join him in the fun. I see that as evidence of being ready to graduate when you can give up even giving up. That's hard to wrap my head around. I can't. |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jun 14, 2023 13:17:44 GMT -5
Resistance is much more than just futile. Resistance to what is IS separation. It concocts this I/other experience. The funny thing is if you perceive resistance as an obstacle or a hurdle to overcome, you're just chasing your tail. This is why stillness is a key. It's also quite funny. Peace. Good to see you having finally discovered the power of futility.  |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 14, 2023 13:23:08 GMT -5
E Pluribus Unum = hierarchy. (It doesn't bother me if you say it's irrelevant or imaginary). Heirarchy means resistance is obligatory. Life is a school. All that makes me almost alone here, ST's forum, no problem. I have no problem with the realization of ND. But that's the beginning/starting point, not the end. Maybe it is. I saw a funny gag. A cop walking down a sidewalk starts jumping in puddles and splashing folks. Most resist. Run away. Seek cover. Get angry. But a few, mostly kids join him in the fun. I see that as evidence of being ready to graduate when you can give up even giving up. That's hard to wrap my head around. I can't. Fun is a necessary part of the play, but only a part. |
|
|
|
Post by zazeniac on Jun 14, 2023 14:32:09 GMT -5
Funny but contentment and achievement are both synonyms of fulfillment. I would put to you that graduating from this school of life is much more about fulfillment/contentment than fulfillment/achievement. Only because the latter implies effort. Now understand that practice to me does not necessarily suggest effort. Can one practice napping and does that require effort?
|
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 14, 2023 14:47:32 GMT -5
Funny but contentment and achievement are both synonyms of fulfillment. I would put to you that graduating from this school of life is much more about fulfillment/contentment than fulfillment/achievement. Only because the latter implies effort. Now understand that practice to me does not necessarily suggest effort. Can one practice napping and does that require effort? Practice for me means interior practice working from attention and/or awareness. When things TAKE our attention or awareness, that isn't practice. An analogy is juggling, if you stop, the balls fall. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jun 14, 2023 16:03:13 GMT -5
Funny but contentment and achievement are both synonyms of fulfillment. I would put to you that graduating from this school of life is much more about fulfillment/contentment than fulfillment/achievement. Only because the latter implies effort. Now understand that practice to me does not necessarily suggest effort. Can one practice napping and does that require effort? Practice for me means interior practice working from attention and/or awareness. When things TAKE our attention or awareness, that isn't practice. An analogy is juggling, if you stop, the balls fall. One practices until it's realized who/what is doing the practices, and that ends the self-deception as well as the practicing. After rowing to the shore and stepping onto dry land, one leaves the boat behind. One might ask, "Who/what is taking attention from who/what?" Are there two involved? As long as one imagines twoness, the game of twoness will continue. |
|
|
|
Post by zazeniac on Jun 14, 2023 16:49:36 GMT -5
Funny but contentment and achievement are both synonyms of fulfillment. I would put to you that graduating from this school of life is much more about fulfillment/contentment than fulfillment/achievement. Only because the latter implies effort. Now understand that practice to me does not necessarily suggest effort. Can one practice napping and does that require effort? Practice for me means interior practice working from attention and/or awareness. When things TAKE our attention or awareness, that isn't practice. An analogy is juggling, if you stop, the balls fall. Juggling is a good analogy. You have to relax and let your body do the work, a focal point is useful. Not thinking is useful. So when things take your attention, you are not practicing? Thoughts? What things take your attention away? Fear? Pain? Regret? Guilt? I think avoiding these is what causes me to lose sight of who I am, the knower. After all, these are body sensations triggered by real events sometimes, but mostly memories of past events. You can drown, get lost, in these waves ( thought streams). I think some folks get lost in trying to win arguments. Not you necessarily. Me some times. Do you enjoy your practice? I juggle, btw. Tennis balls. No chainsaws yet.Is what we say more important than how we say it? Can you practice while typing a response or do you lose yourself? |
|
|
|
Post by zazeniac on Jun 14, 2023 17:28:44 GMT -5
The Soto way is as long as you're climbing it doesn't matter if you're on the mountain top. Get it?
Btw, ND folk seem like the Borg obsessed with wanting to take your individual identity. You can't have it!
The Rinzai have steps to mark the way.
|
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 14, 2023 17:32:31 GMT -5
Practice for me means interior practice working from attention and/or awareness. When things TAKE our attention or awareness, that isn't practice. An analogy is juggling, if you stop, the balls fall. Juggling is a good analogy. You have to relax and let your body do the work, a focal point is useful. Not thinking is useful. So when things take your attention, you are not practicing? Thoughts? What things take your attention away? Fear? Pain? Regret? Guilt? I think avoiding these is what causes me to lose sight of who I am, the knower. After all, these are body sensations triggered by real events sometimes, but mostly memories of past events. You can drown, get lost, in these waves ( thought streams). I think some folks get lost in trying to win arguments. Not you necessarily. Me some times. Do you enjoy your practice? I juggle, btw. Tennis balls. No chainsaws yet.Is what we say more important than how we say it? Can you practice while typing a response or do you lose yourself? If your attention or awareness gets lost in ANYTHING that's what identification is, correct, that's not-practice (getting lost is basically operating on autopilot). Almost everything takes your attention, but you can also be in those named-things, and observe too, but not easy to do, but that's what's to work to, then you don't get lost. But yes, you can drown. Yes, I enjoy practice. What and how both important. I decided on hacky sacks to juggle, no chasing balls. In the late '70's we were given the task, teach yourself to juggle. I mostly juggled rocks, it took me a week to learn. Yes, I can practice while typing-responding, did through that whole sentence. Without focus, in less than a minute I would get lost. I'll try to type, just....Oops a distraction entered the room, got lost right then. It always happens. Cool, can you do 4? 5? I saw a guy once say 4 is easy, 2 in one hand going, 2 in the other hand. |
|
|
|
Post by zazeniac on Jun 14, 2023 19:26:24 GMT -5
Juggling is a good analogy. You have to relax and let your body do the work, a focal point is useful. Not thinking is useful. So when things take your attention, you are not practicing? Thoughts? What things take your attention away? Fear? Pain? Regret? Guilt? I think avoiding these is what causes me to lose sight of who I am, the knower. After all, these are body sensations triggered by real events sometimes, but mostly memories of past events. You can drown, get lost, in these waves ( thought streams). I think some folks get lost in trying to win arguments. Not you necessarily. Me some times. Do you enjoy your practice? I juggle, btw. Tennis balls. No chainsaws yet.Is what we say more important than how we say it? Can you practice while typing a response or do you lose yourself? If your attention or awareness gets lost in ANYTHING that's what identification is, correct, that's not-practice (getting lost is basically operating on autopilot). Almost everything takes your attention, but you can also be on also those named-things, and observe too, but not easy to do, but that's what's to work to, then you don't get lost. But yes, you can drown. Yes, I enjoy practice. What and how both important. I decided on hacky sacks to juggle, no chasing balls. In the late '70's we were given the task, teach yourself to juggle. I mostly juggled rocks, it took me a week to learn. Yes, I can practice while typing-responding, did through that whole sentence. Without focus, in less than a minute I would get lost. I'll try to type, just....Oops a distraction entered the room, got lost right then. It always happens. Cool, can you do 4? 5? I saw a guy once say 4 is easy, 2 in one hand going, 2 in the other hand. I do three balls. I can do the weave and a circle. 3's enough for me. It entertains my birds. We're pretty much on the same page where it matters. |
|
|
|
Post by zazeniac on Jun 15, 2023 9:39:54 GMT -5
The Soto way is as long as you're climbing it doesn't matter if you're on the mountain top. Get it? Btw, ND folk seem like the Borg obsessed with wanting to take your individual identity. You can't have it! The Rinzai have steps to mark the way. Btw, don't give a rat's ass about individual identify, mostly baggage it is. Just stuck in my opposional defiant teenage years. Time for a short hiatus. Peace. |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jun 15, 2023 13:16:38 GMT -5
Resistance is much more than just futile. Resistance to what is IS separation. It concocts this I/other experience. The funny thing is if you perceive resistance as an obstacle or a hurdle to overcome, you're just chasing your tail. This is why stillness is a key. It's also quite funny. Peace. E Pluribus Unum = hierarchy. (It doesn't bother me if you say it's irrelevant or imaginary). Heirarchy means resistance is obligatory. Life is a school. All that makes me almost alone here, ST's forum, no problem. I have no problem with the realization of ND. But that's the beginning/starting point, not the end. Integration is key. A lot of people don't seem to be able to integrate their 'profound' realizations into their daily lives. In that sense I'd agree. Too many armchair gurus in the spiritual online scene. |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jun 15, 2023 13:28:44 GMT -5
Funny but contentment and achievement are both synonyms of fulfillment. I would put to you that graduating from this school of life is much more about fulfillment/contentment than fulfillment/achievement. Only because the latter implies effort. Now understand that practice to me does not necessarily suggest effort. Can one practice napping and does that require effort? You are right, practice does not necessarily mean effort. But it does imply a goal. And that's the actual issue here, it seems. You want to get from A to B. Because you believe B will be better than A. That's extrinsic motivation. You perform an action in order to achieve an objective, which you think will give you more pleasure. Intrinsic motivation, on the other hand, would be performing the action for the sake of performing the action, because the action itself is the pleasure, the achievement is only an irrelevant byproduct. That is called flow experience, or play, or alignment. |
|
