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Post by justlikeyou on May 10, 2023 7:07:22 GMT -5
It can only ever 'perform'. It never 'knows'. Only man has an opportunity to meet its Source directly. And only those who have truly know. Anything less is conjecture, whether man or machine. |
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Post by andrew on May 10, 2023 7:11:58 GMT -5
Well, there are no others because there is no me. There is no world but for the light of awareness. This is all language prodding at the truth though. Hedderman puts it best when he says there's no crow jumping in and out of a pothole and no Andrew observing it. That dichotomy is an illusion. But there is "crowing." As there is "grocering," "foruming." Etc. That's what's happening. The problems start when the ego, mind, self, I-thought, starts appropriating what's happening. Then you're on Gopal's Wild Ride rollercoaster and you're living in "what's not happening" much of the time. Like Bodidharma said to Huike who'd cut off his arm and brought it to Bodidharma:"Bring me your mind, and I will pacify it." Hahaha! That's where the delusion starts and is perpetuated by this relentless drone of self talk. Hedderman calls this "selfing," and it's initiated with the idea that I am this mind and this body. Then the subject/ object dichotomy begins. I am this, not that. Selfing. But again this is just prodding at the truth. Prod away my wayward friends. I'm going back to sleep. If we say, 'there are no others', haven't we first observed those others to say that there none? I liked what you said, I'm just making conversation. |
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Post by andrew on May 10, 2023 7:19:12 GMT -5
It can only ever 'perform'. It never 'knows'. Only man has an opportunity to meet its Source directly. And only those who have truly know. Anything less is conjecture, whether man or machine. Yes. While I respect the critical thinking of atheism, and sometimes feel the world would benefit from more critical thinking, ultimately...I find it an escapist (and therefore self-deluded) position to take. 'True knowing' cannot be found in critical thinking, but it constantly shows up in our experience, and we can't ever entirely escape it, so why do we devalue it? Tolle sees it as collective insanity, and he's not wrong. |
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Post by zendancer on May 10, 2023 7:20:17 GMT -5
A forum discussion for whom exactly? Seekers? Yes. The audience that ZD unlikely to be addressing is the one where there is the “direct recognition that you are unbounded and unlimited.” So are these messages any use to seekers? Well many seekers will not be happy being told that they are already what they seek or to just sit in silence. Many will feel the need to investigate further (at least initially.) Then it becomes the case of using a thorn to remove a thorn. The mind is engaged (momentarily) in order to see its utter limitation. This was Nagarjuna’s method, he used philosophy to expose the utter uselessness of philosophy. But I agree. At the end of the day all this must be left behind - even non-duality. Yes indeed. It's that simple. |
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Post by zazeniac on May 10, 2023 8:18:23 GMT -5
Well, there are no others because there is no me. There is no world but for the light of awareness. This is all language prodding at the truth though. Hedderman puts it best when he says there's no crow jumping in and out of a pothole and no Andrew observing it. That dichotomy is an illusion. But there is "crowing." As there is "grocering," "foruming." Etc. That's what's happening. The problems start when the ego, mind, self, I-thought, starts appropriating what's happening. Then you're on Gopal's Wild Ride rollercoaster and you're living in "what's not happening" much of the time. Like Bodidharma said to Huike who'd cut off his arm and brought it to Bodidharma:"Bring me your mind, and I will pacify it." Hahaha! That's where the delusion starts and is perpetuated by this relentless drone of self talk. Hedderman calls this "selfing," and it's initiated with the idea that I am this mind and this body. Then the subject/ object dichotomy begins. I am this, not that. Selfing. But again this is just prodding at the truth. Prod away my wayward friends. I'm going back to sleep. If we say, 'there are no others', haven't we first observed those others to say that there none? I liked what you said, I'm just making conversation. Not really. There are no flibbertyjibbits. Have you observed one? But we're just playing mind games. Which I admit are fun. The crow experience is refreshing. A glimpse. You lose yourself in it. Like in an art piece. |
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Post by andrew on May 10, 2023 8:56:46 GMT -5
If we say, 'there are no others', haven't we first observed those others to say that there none? I liked what you said, I'm just making conversation. Not really. There are no flibbertyjibbits. Have you observed one? But we're just playing mind games. Which I admit are fun. The crow experience is refreshing. A glimpse. You lose yourself in it. Like in an art piece. well, at a minimum, I know I (or in this case, you) have just conceived of one, in order to say there is none. The mind can negate, but cannot destroy. It's function is creative, and even negation is creative...it's saying 'something' about a creation. e.g Father Christmas exists enough, and is real enough, to say that he doesn't exist and isn't real. Why do you think we endlessly talk about stuff here that doesn't exist, or isn't real? It clearly exists, and is real enough, for us to continually tell people that it doesn't exist and isn't real  The word you used recently, is conundrum. It's a good one...the mind is the conundrum...can't live with it, can't live without it. |
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Post by zazeniac on May 10, 2023 9:40:27 GMT -5
Not really. There are no flibbertyjibbits. Have you observed one? But we're just playing mind games. Which I admit are fun. The crow experience is refreshing. A glimpse. You lose yourself in it. Like in an art piece. well, at a minimum, I know I (or in this case, you) have just conceived of one, in order to say there is none. The mind can negate, but cannot destroy. It's function is creative, and even negation is creative...it's saying 'something' about a creation. e.g Father Christmas exists enough, and is real enough, to say that he doesn't exist and isn't real. Why do you think we endlessly talk about stuff here that doesn't exist, or isn't real? It clearly exists, and is real enough, for us to continually tell people that it doesn't exist and isn't real The word you used recently, is conundrum. It's a good one...the mind is the conundrum...can't live with it, can't live without it. Sounds like Anselm's a priori argument for the existence of God. If you can conceive of an all powerful, omniscient being then he must exist because otherwise he blah blah blah. The self, ego, mind is real. Because the mind makes it so. RM talks about the I-thought as a knot binding the Self and self. To some folks hearing that pointer is enough to undo the knot. Other folks like me need to work the knot, practice. The mind is a real, useful, necessary apparatus. But it is an apparatus, a device. That you identify yourself as such is what causes the conundrum. But no worries. I'm in your boat, just better looking. I think you like to argue. I used to like it. It made me feel better when I could mix it up verbally. I even used to look for arguments. No judgment. Whatever floats your boat. I like the ethics of my wiccan/pagan friends. "If harm ye none, then do as thou will." I don't enjoy arguing anymore. RM's invitation is to try to find, locate, who likes to argue. Spend some of your spare time doing that. I suspect you prefer arguing. 😁 |
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Post by andrew on May 10, 2023 10:23:17 GMT -5
well, at a minimum, I know I (or in this case, you) have just conceived of one, in order to say there is none. The mind can negate, but cannot destroy. It's function is creative, and even negation is creative...it's saying 'something' about a creation. e.g Father Christmas exists enough, and is real enough, to say that he doesn't exist and isn't real. Why do you think we endlessly talk about stuff here that doesn't exist, or isn't real? It clearly exists, and is real enough, for us to continually tell people that it doesn't exist and isn't real The word you used recently, is conundrum. It's a good one...the mind is the conundrum...can't live with it, can't live without it. Sounds like Anselm's a priori argument for the existence of God. If you can conceive of an all powerful, omniscient being then he must exist because otherwise he blah blah blah. The self, ego, mind is real. Because the mind makes it so. RM talks about the I-thought as a knot binding the Self and self. To some folks hearing that pointer is enough to undo the knot. Other folks like me need to work the knot, practice. The mind is a real, useful, necessary apparatus. But it is an apparatus, a device. That you identify yourself as such is what causes the conundrum. But no worries. I'm in your boat, just better looking. I think you like to argue. I used to like it. It made me feel better when I could mix it up verbally. I even used to look for arguments. No judgment. Whatever floats your boat. I like the ethics of my wiccan/pagan friends. "If harm ye none, then do as thou will." I don't enjoy arguing anymore. RM's invitation is to try to find, locate, who likes to argue. Spend some of your spare time doing that. I suspect you prefer arguing. 😁 well, I want to clarify, that I don't mean it like Anselm (I've never heard of him). I mean that what is meaningful, MUST exist in our internal world of experience/perception. What is meaningful is known in some way. But that's not to say that it exists in the apparent external world. I think what I'm getting at (and I'm working this out as I go along) is that IF Acceptance is Peace, then it means accepting everything that shows up in our internal world. It can be negated (and that might be a good thing to do so), but not rejected or cast out. It has to be included. I like to argue, yeah, because I like to connect. In agreement, there's often not much to say. But I'm fussy about who I argue with. Self-inquiry does have its place in my world, but it's a very self-focused (or introvert) activity. I like to be sociable too. I like the 'Inter-Am' as much as the 'Am'. |
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Post by zazeniac on May 10, 2023 10:31:42 GMT -5
Sounds like Anselm's a priori argument for the existence of God. If you can conceive of an all powerful, omniscient being then he must exist because otherwise he blah blah blah. The self, ego, mind is real. Because the mind makes it so. RM talks about the I-thought as a knot binding the Self and self. To some folks hearing that pointer is enough to undo the knot. Other folks like me need to work the knot, practice. The mind is a real, useful, necessary apparatus. But it is an apparatus, a device. That you identify yourself as such is what causes the conundrum. But no worries. I'm in your boat, just better looking. I think you like to argue. I used to like it. It made me feel better when I could mix it up verbally. I even used to look for arguments. No judgment. Whatever floats your boat. I like the ethics of my wiccan/pagan friends. "If harm ye none, then do as thou will." I don't enjoy arguing anymore. RM's invitation is to try to find, locate, who likes to argue. Spend some of your spare time doing that. I suspect you prefer arguing. 😁 well, I want to clarify, that I don't mean it like Anselm (I've never heard of him). I mean that what is meaningful, MUST exist in our internal world of experience/perception. What is meaningful is known in some way. But that's not to say that it exists in the apparent external world. I think what I'm getting at (and I'm working this out as I go along) is that IF Acceptance is Peace, then it means accepting everything that shows up in our internal world. It can be negated (and that might be a good thing to do so), but not rejected or cast out. It has to be included. I like to argue, yeah, because I like to connect. In agreement, there's often not much to say. But I'm fussy about who I argue with. Self-inquiry does have its place in my world, but it's a very self-focused (or introvert) activity. I like to be sociable too. I like the 'Inter-Am' as much as the 'Am'. <** Holds up his tungsten steel prosthetic index finger **> |
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Post by andrew on May 10, 2023 10:35:21 GMT -5
well, I want to clarify, that I don't mean it like Anselm (I've never heard of him). I mean that what is meaningful, MUST exist in our internal world of experience/perception. What is meaningful is known in some way. But that's not to say that it exists in the apparent external world. I think what I'm getting at (and I'm working this out as I go along) is that IF Acceptance is Peace, then it means accepting everything that shows up in our internal world. It can be negated (and that might be a good thing to do so), but not rejected or cast out. It has to be included. I like to argue, yeah, because I like to connect. In agreement, there's often not much to say. But I'm fussy about who I argue with. Self-inquiry does have its place in my world, but it's a very self-focused (or introvert) activity. I like to be sociable too. I like the 'Inter-Am' as much as the 'Am'. <** Holds up his tungsten steel prosthetic index finger **> |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 10, 2023 10:52:19 GMT -5
From Hinduwebsite.comMaya www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/h_maya.asp Is the world really unreal? Hinduism considers the world to be false or unreal not in a physical sense but in an eternal and absolute sense. The world is an illusion not because it does not exist, but because it is not what it appears to be all the time. From an absolute perspective, the material universe is a temporary creation. It changes from moment to moment and is never the same. We cannot say we live in the same world each and every moment of our existence. The senses may take time to perceive the changes that happen in our environment, but change is what characterizes our world and our existence all the time. Duality and plurality are facts of life. Without them we cannot make sense of ourselves and our experiences.Our scriptures say that we should not be misled by this ordinary sensory experience of ours. We should pay particular attention to our perceptions and go beyond the appearance of things to know the truth. We can arrive at truth by understanding the various states of our consciousness. For example, when we are awake everything looks real. We can touch and feel things consciously. But in our dream state the world becomes different. Here we are vaguely aware of what is going on, but from an experiential point of view, do not know clearly whether what we experience in a dream is true or not. When we are in deep sleep and our senses are in a state of complete rest, the world almost disappears from the field of our experience. Here we do not experience any duality or plurality. We even lose the sense of self or the ego sense. Thus for a spiritually awakened person, who begins to comprehend the illusion of appearances, the material world presents itself as a stage in which things appear and disappear according to the state of our consciousness, awareness and inclination. When people are caught in the maze of things (samsara) and develop an attachment with them, they become vulnerable to ignorance and suffering.Why this is important for an individual? How does it matter whether the world is real or unreal? No one can dispute the fact that, at any given moment, the world in which we live is real. It does exist in some specific form and state, independent of whether we exist or not. It is real in the physical sense. It is also tangible to our senses. We experience its existence in innumerable ways in our minds and through our senses all the time. Right now at this very moment we are in a real world. We cannot say the world is an illusion, unless we have lost our minds literally. This does not mean it is not an illusion. This is the paradox, the real truth, to understand which we have to go deeper into ourselves to discover our true nature and the meaning of self-absorption. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My Father used to drive me bananas when we were watching a TV program or movie and by some kind of special effects could make something happen that couldn't happen IRL. He'd just say: How'd they do that? Soccer is just about unique in the states concerning advertising on network TV. In almost all other sports there is a break in action where they can plug in a commercial. But in soccer the clock never stops. Sometimes they put a little square up in the corner, brought to you by: But now with modern technology there is a screen surrounding the field. It's basically a field of tiny lights which can be turned off and on. With a computer programmed sequence of turning off and on an advertiser can put its name in the background. There is no movement, just a sequence of turning off and on. An old analogue color TV works the same way, basically by little dots of either blue, green or red. if you put your eye up to the screen you could see the dots. There are only 3 colors on the screen, blue, green and red. Why? Because the cones in your eye only register the wavelengths of blue, green and red. Your brain takes these 3 colors and make all the colors you see, by elaborate mixing. Now that we know how these photoreceptor cells work, how do we use them to see different colors? We have three types of cones. If you look at the graph below, you can see each cone is able to detect a range of colors. Even though each cone is most sensitive to a specific color of light (where the line peaks), they also can detect other colors (shown by the stretch of each curve). Since the three types of cones are commonly labeled by the color at which they are most sensitive (blue, green and red) you might think other colors are not possible. But it is the overlap of the cones and how the brain integrates the signals sent from them that allows us to see millions of colors. For example, the color yellow results from green and red cones being stimulated while the blue cones have no stimulation. Analog broadcasting in the US ended in 2009; only digital transmissions were used from then on. For analog television to display color, we need the primary colors: red, green, blue (RGB) which can be combined to give any color. To stream three additional color signals was unacceptable as it would require additional bandwidth of 18 MHz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So when you catch a soccer game on, look at the screen surrounding the field, it's a mini-representation of how the brain-mind-body works in relation to the universe. Blinking lights give the illusion of movement. Another simple example is the wave, people standing up and standing down, in sequence, in a stadium, giving the illusion of movement of a wave. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So the brain evolved to navigate the world in order to pass on its genes. So the brain only needs to represent the world in a sufficient manner as to pass on its genes. We are actually at a sort of crisis point, as certain people have learned to manipulate our consciousness to such an extent that they can make yes look like no and no look like yes. So we are "persuaded" to believe things that are not true. Yes, this has gone on for centuries, only now we have very sophisticated tools for manipulation. And we can be 100% sure that what we are seeing is reality, when it in fact is not. So in a real sense we now live in overlapping magic shows.
You think you are not being persuaded? I assure you that you are. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So does it do any good whatsoever to always and only talk in absolute language? We have to navigate this world. We live and move and act in the dual world. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And physicists have the same problem. ~Stuff~ doesn't exist. Matter doesn't exist. Stuff is mostly empty space. Even the parts that are not empty space, are not stuff. They are just overlapping fields (of energy). ~~~~~~~~~~~~ I have stuff to do, so I can't even finish this, now. But the point is, when you look behind the curtain, there's another curtain, and behind that curtain there's another curtain. I basically don't understand why Self-Realization stops the search. We don't live behind the last curtain, we live here, now. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 10, 2023 11:11:15 GMT -5
Not really. There are no flibbertyjibbits. Have you observed one? But we're just playing mind games. Which I admit are fun. The crow experience is refreshing. A glimpse. You lose yourself in it. Like in an art piece. well, at a minimum, I know I (or in this case, you) have just conceived of one, in order to say there is none. The mind can negate, but cannot destroy. It's function is creative, and even negation is creative...it's saying 'something' about a creation. e.g Father Christmas exists enough, and is real enough, to say that he doesn't exist and isn't real. Why do you think we endlessly talk about stuff here that doesn't exist, or isn't real? It clearly exists, and is real enough, for us to continually tell people that it doesn't exist and isn't real The word you used recently, is conundrum. It's a good one...the mind is the conundrum...can't live with it, can't live without it. This is what I was working towards in my post above, there is a curtain behind the curtain behind the curtain, etc. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 10, 2023 11:19:30 GMT -5
well, at a minimum, I know I (or in this case, you) have just conceived of one, in order to say there is none. The mind can negate, but cannot destroy. It's function is creative, and even negation is creative...it's saying 'something' about a creation. e.g Father Christmas exists enough, and is real enough, to say that he doesn't exist and isn't real. Why do you think we endlessly talk about stuff here that doesn't exist, or isn't real? It clearly exists, and is real enough, for us to continually tell people that it doesn't exist and isn't real The word you used recently, is conundrum. It's a good one...the mind is the conundrum...can't live with it, can't live without it. Sounds like Anselm's a priori argument for the existence of God. If you can conceive of an all powerful, omniscient being then he must exist because otherwise he blah blah blah. The self, ego, mind is real. Because the mind makes it so. RM talks about the I-thought as a knot binding the Self and self. To some folks hearing that pointer is enough to undo the knot. Other folks like me need to work the knot, practice. The mind is a real, useful, necessary apparatus. But it is an apparatus, a device. That you identify yourself as such is what causes the conundrum. But no worries. I'm in your boat, just better looking. I think you like to argue. I used to like it. It made me feel better when I could mix it up verbally. I even used to look for arguments. No judgment. Whatever floats your boat. I like the ethics of my wiccan/pagan friends. "If harm ye none, then do as thou will." I don't enjoy arguing anymore. RM's invitation is to try to find, locate, who likes to argue. Spend some of your spare time doing that. I suspect you prefer arguing. 😁 I like that analogy, we're just a knot. When I was nine I got my first rod and reel. Previously I had just fished with a cane pole, with older cousins and with uncles, my father didn't fish, or hunt. It was an open face reel. I learned pretty quickly you could untie any knot. There was a pond, Grandma's pond, about 300 years from my house, up and over a hill. I was allowed to go fishing by myself, as I knew how to swim. Sometimes it just happened, a gigantic knot would appear on a bad cast. So I had a choice, untie the knot or go home. I liked to fish. I could untie any knot, some just took longer than others. And so can a knot untie itself? Obviously not. I've never claimed otherwise. |
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Post by zendancer on May 10, 2023 11:22:32 GMT -5
From Hinduwebsite.comMaya www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/h_maya.asp Is the world really unreal? Hinduism considers the world to be false or unreal not in a physical sense but in an eternal and absolute sense. The world is an illusion not because it does not exist, but because it is not what it appears to be all the time. From an absolute perspective, the material universe is a temporary creation. It changes from moment to moment and is never the same. We cannot say we live in the same world each and every moment of our existence. The senses may take time to perceive the changes that happen in our environment, but change is what characterizes our world and our existence all the time. Duality and plurality are facts of life. Without them we cannot make sense of ourselves and our experiences.Our scriptures say that we should not be misled by this ordinary sensory experience of ours. We should pay particular attention to our perceptions and go beyond the appearance of things to know the truth. We can arrive at truth by understanding the various states of our consciousness. For example, when we are awake everything looks real. We can touch and feel things consciously. But in our dream state the world becomes different. Here we are vaguely aware of what is going on, but from an experiential point of view, do not know clearly whether what we experience in a dream is true or not. When we are in deep sleep and our senses are in a state of complete rest, the world almost disappears from the field of our experience. Here we do not experience any duality or plurality. We even lose the sense of self or the ego sense. Thus for a spiritually awakened person, who begins to comprehend the illusion of appearances, the material world presents itself as a stage in which things appear and disappear according to the state of our consciousness, awareness and inclination. When people are caught in the maze of things (samsara) and develop an attachment with them, they become vulnerable to ignorance and suffering.Why this is important for an individual? How does it matter whether the world is real or unreal? No one can dispute the fact that, at any given moment, the world in which we live is real. It does exist in some specific form and state, independent of whether we exist or not. It is real in the physical sense. It is also tangible to our senses. We experience its existence in innumerable ways in our minds and through our senses all the time. Right now at this very moment we are in a real world. We cannot say the world is an illusion, unless we have lost our minds literally. This does not mean it is not an illusion. This is the paradox, the real truth, to understand which we have to go deeper into ourselves to discover our true nature and the meaning of self-absorption. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My Father used to drive me bananas when we were watching a TV program or movie and by some kind of special effects could make something happen that couldn't happen IRL. He'd just say: How'd they do that? Soccer is just about unique in the states concerning advertising on network TV. In almost all other sports there is a break in action where they can plug in a commercial. But in soccer the clock never stops. Sometimes they put a little square up in the corner, brought to you by: But now with modern technology there is a screen surrounding the field. It's basically a field of tiny lights which can be turned off and on. With a computer programmed sequence of turning off and on an advertiser can put its name in the background. There is no movement, just a sequence of turning off and on. An old analogue color TV works the same way, basically by little dots of either blue, green or red. if you put your eye up to the screen you could see the dots. There are only 3 colors on the screen, blue, green and red. Why? Because the cones in your eye only register the wavelengths of blue, green and red. Your brain takes these 3 colors and make all the colors you see, by elaborate mixing. Now that we know how these photoreceptor cells work, how do we use them to see different colors? We have three types of cones. If you look at the graph below, you can see each cone is able to detect a range of colors. Even though each cone is most sensitive to a specific color of light (where the line peaks), they also can detect other colors (shown by the stretch of each curve). Since the three types of cones are commonly labeled by the color at which they are most sensitive (blue, green and red) you might think other colors are not possible. But it is the overlap of the cones and how the brain integrates the signals sent from them that allows us to see millions of colors. For example, the color yellow results from green and red cones being stimulated while the blue cones have no stimulation. Analog broadcasting in the US ended in 2009; only digital transmissions were used from then on. For analog television to display color, we need the primary colors: red, green, blue (RGB) which can be combined to give any color. To stream three additional color signals was unacceptable as it would require additional bandwidth of 18 MHz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So when you catch a soccer game on, look at the screen surrounding the field, it's a mini-representation of how the brain-mind-body works in relation to the universe. Blinking lights give the illusion of movement. Another simple example is the wave, people standing up and standing down, in sequence, in a stadium, giving the illusion of movement of a wave. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So the brain evolved to navigate the world in order to pass on its genes. So the brain only needs to represent the world in a sufficient manner as to pass on its genes. We are actually at a sort of crisis point, as certain people have learned to manipulate our consciousness to such an extent that they can make yes look like no and no look like yes. So we are "persuaded" to believe things that are not true. Yes, this has gone on for centuries, only now we have very sophisticated tools for manipulation. And we can be 100% sure that what we are seeing is reality, when it in fact is not. So in a real sense we now live in overlapping magic shows.
You think you are not being persuaded? I assure you that you are. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So does it do any good whatsoever to always and only talk in absolute language? We have to navigate this world. We live and move and act in the dual world. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And physicists have the same problem. ~Stuff~ doesn't exist. Matter doesn't exist. Stuff is mostly empty space. Even the parts that are not empty space, are not stuff. They are just overlapping fields (of energy). ~~~~~~~~~~~~ I have stuff to do, so I can't even finish this, now. But the point is, when you look behind the curtain, there's another curtain, and behind that curtain there's another curtain. I basically don't understand why Self-Realization stops the search. We don't live behind the last curtain, we live here, now. Discovering what we are and what's going on ends the search because all of the curtains have been pulled away. Afterwards, one can live an ordinary life detached from ideation. Life becomes extremely simple and direct. Chop wood, carry water, read books, trade stocks, learn another language, have dinner with friends, and do whatever the next thing is that needs to be done. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 10, 2023 11:34:12 GMT -5
From Hinduwebsite.comMaya www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/h_maya.asp Is the world really unreal? Hinduism considers the world to be false or unreal not in a physical sense but in an eternal and absolute sense. The world is an illusion not because it does not exist, but because it is not what it appears to be all the time. From an absolute perspective, the material universe is a temporary creation. It changes from moment to moment and is never the same. We cannot say we live in the same world each and every moment of our existence. The senses may take time to perceive the changes that happen in our environment, but change is what characterizes our world and our existence all the time. Duality and plurality are facts of life. Without them we cannot make sense of ourselves and our experiences.Our scriptures say that we should not be misled by this ordinary sensory experience of ours. We should pay particular attention to our perceptions and go beyond the appearance of things to know the truth. We can arrive at truth by understanding the various states of our consciousness. For example, when we are awake everything looks real. We can touch and feel things consciously. But in our dream state the world becomes different. Here we are vaguely aware of what is going on, but from an experiential point of view, do not know clearly whether what we experience in a dream is true or not. When we are in deep sleep and our senses are in a state of complete rest, the world almost disappears from the field of our experience. Here we do not experience any duality or plurality. We even lose the sense of self or the ego sense. Thus for a spiritually awakened person, who begins to comprehend the illusion of appearances, the material world presents itself as a stage in which things appear and disappear according to the state of our consciousness, awareness and inclination. When people are caught in the maze of things (samsara) and develop an attachment with them, they become vulnerable to ignorance and suffering.Why this is important for an individual? How does it matter whether the world is real or unreal? No one can dispute the fact that, at any given moment, the world in which we live is real. It does exist in some specific form and state, independent of whether we exist or not. It is real in the physical sense. It is also tangible to our senses. We experience its existence in innumerable ways in our minds and through our senses all the time. Right now at this very moment we are in a real world. We cannot say the world is an illusion, unless we have lost our minds literally. This does not mean it is not an illusion. This is the paradox, the real truth, to understand which we have to go deeper into ourselves to discover our true nature and the meaning of self-absorption. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My Father used to drive me bananas when we were watching a TV program or movie and by some kind of special effects could make something happen that couldn't happen IRL. He'd just say: How'd they do that? Soccer is just about unique in the states concerning advertising on network TV. In almost all other sports there is a break in action where they can plug in a commercial. But in soccer the clock never stops. Sometimes they put a little square up in the corner, brought to you by: But now with modern technology there is a screen surrounding the field. It's basically a field of tiny lights which can be turned off and on. With a computer programmed sequence of turning off and on an advertiser can put its name in the background. There is no movement, just a sequence of turning off and on. An old analogue color TV works the same way, basically by little dots of either blue, green or red. if you put your eye up to the screen you could see the dots. There are only 3 colors on the screen, blue, green and red. Why? Because the cones in your eye only register the wavelengths of blue, green and red. Your brain takes these 3 colors and make all the colors you see, by elaborate mixing. Now that we know how these photoreceptor cells work, how do we use them to see different colors? We have three types of cones. If you look at the graph below, you can see each cone is able to detect a range of colors. Even though each cone is most sensitive to a specific color of light (where the line peaks), they also can detect other colors (shown by the stretch of each curve). Since the three types of cones are commonly labeled by the color at which they are most sensitive (blue, green and red) you might think other colors are not possible. But it is the overlap of the cones and how the brain integrates the signals sent from them that allows us to see millions of colors. For example, the color yellow results from green and red cones being stimulated while the blue cones have no stimulation. Analog broadcasting in the US ended in 2009; only digital transmissions were used from then on. For analog television to display color, we need the primary colors: red, green, blue (RGB) which can be combined to give any color. To stream three additional color signals was unacceptable as it would require additional bandwidth of 18 MHz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So when you catch a soccer game on, look at the screen surrounding the field, it's a mini-representation of how the brain-mind-body works in relation to the universe. Blinking lights give the illusion of movement. Another simple example is the wave, people standing up and standing down, in sequence, in a stadium, giving the illusion of movement of a wave. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So the brain evolved to navigate the world in order to pass on its genes. So the brain only needs to represent the world in a sufficient manner as to pass on its genes. We are actually at a sort of crisis point, as certain people have learned to manipulate our consciousness to such an extent that they can make yes look like no and no look like yes. So we are "persuaded" to believe things that are not true. Yes, this has gone on for centuries, only now we have very sophisticated tools for manipulation. And we can be 100% sure that what we are seeing is reality, when it in fact is not. So in a real sense we now live in overlapping magic shows.
You think you are not being persuaded? I assure you that you are. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So does it do any good whatsoever to always and only talk in absolute language? We have to navigate this world. We live and move and act in the dual world. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And physicists have the same problem. ~Stuff~ doesn't exist. Matter doesn't exist. Stuff is mostly empty space. Even the parts that are not empty space, are not stuff. They are just overlapping fields (of energy). ~~~~~~~~~~~~ I have stuff to do, so I can't even finish this, now. But the point is, when you look behind the curtain, there's another curtain, and behind that curtain there's another curtain. I basically don't understand why Self-Realization stops the search. We don't live behind the last curtain, we live here, now. Discovering what we are and what's going on ends the search because all of the curtains have been pulled away. Afterwards, one can live an ordinary life detached from ideation. Life becomes extremely simple and direct. Chop wood, carry water, read books, trade stocks, learn another language, have dinner with friends, and do whatever the next thing is that needs to be done. That doesn't work for me because the knot still exists, I AM the knot. My knot sucks, I don't want to be my knot. Show me a how to untie the knot and I'll follow you anywhere. ........You have never told me anything new ZD, never. |
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