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Post by andrew on Aug 31, 2022 14:26:42 GMT -5
Yes you are, and I'm all for resolving daily life problems. In fact, I consider spirituality to be useless if it doesn't help do that. I'm a practical guy (but also kind of a romantic and an idealist). I should have been more explicit perhaps, but I used 2 words...'understanding' and 'comprehending', so yeah...I get that you understand what is meant by infinite, but 'comprehending' the infinite requires irrational means. Some folks also use the word 'grok'. Some have used the word 'gnosis'. Some talk of 'direct knowing'. Intuition might be another one. They are just different ways to try and talk about an irrational comprehension. Yes. Maybe "trans-rational comprehension" is a more useful pointer? good with me I'm not fussy on this really, the point is the distinction between one kind of knowing, and another kind of knowing. As I'm sat here reflecting on it, the question I'm asking is, 'what is required in order to ''access'' that other knowing?'. I guess the first step is recognizing that the rational mind can't do it. So then what....is there anything that can be done to access the other knowing? Allowing oneself to become still perhaps...there's a sort of 'dropping' involved, a coming to rest in the 'space beyond'. And in that 'space', there is 'being' rather than 'doing'. Does that all sound like claptrap Sree? (That's okay if it does )
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Post by zendancer on Aug 31, 2022 15:56:52 GMT -5
Yes. Maybe "trans-rational comprehension" is a more useful pointer? good with me I'm not fussy on this really, the point is the distinction between one kind of knowing, and another kind of knowing. As I'm sat here reflecting on it, the question I'm asking is, 'what is required in order to ''access'' that other knowing?'. I guess the first step is recognizing that the rational mind can't do it. So then what....is there anything that can be done to access the other knowing? Allowing oneself to become still perhaps...there's a sort of 'dropping' involved, a coming to rest in the 'space beyond'. And in that 'space', there is 'being' rather than 'doing'. Exactly. By shifting attention away from thoughts and becoming still, one becomes "accident prone" in the words of Richard Rose. Huge insights can occur as a result of abject despair (Tolle, Satyam Nadeen, and others come to mind in this regard), but if someone isn't already suffering abject despair, the second most correlated activity with existential insights is meditation, and meditative activities can take many forms. Niz stayed with the sense of being whereas most Zen Masters have major insights as a result of either breath awareness exercises or shikan taza (alert attentiveness without a focus). I experimented with numerous meditative activities, but ATA-T was the one I resonated with the most. Bob Ferguson found the truth by simple listening (a form of ATA-T). Tibetan Buddhists use mantras, chanting, and love and kindness meditations. Other people have used mindfulness, tai chi, yoga, self enquiry, koan contemplation, etc. Tyler Tarrant recommends choiceless awareness. I usually advise people to experiment with several forms of meditation and find which forms they resonate with most strongly. Some people can't stand (no pun intended) to sit on a cushion and formally meditate whereas other people enjoy that approach. I liked ATA-T because it can be pursued informally throughout the day and particularly while hiking in wilderness areas. Although there are a few rare people who have major insights without becoming still, they are few and far between.
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Post by sree on Aug 31, 2022 17:32:46 GMT -5
Yes you are, and I'm all for resolving daily life problems. In fact, I consider spirituality to be useless if it doesn't help do that. I'm a practical guy (but also kind of a romantic and an idealist). I should have been more explicit perhaps, but I used 2 words...'understanding' and 'comprehending', so yeah...I get that you understand what is meant by infinite, but 'comprehending' the infinite requires irrational means. Some folks also use the word 'grok'. Some have used the word 'gnosis'. Some talk of 'direct knowing'. Intuition might be another one. They are just different ways to try and talk about an irrational comprehension. Yes. Maybe "trans-rational comprehension" is a more useful pointer? No, it is not a useful pointer. "trans-rational" is as meaningless as "trans-woman" to me. I am not being facetious. I don't accept the rationalization of gender at Psychology Today. I guess I am a minority dissenter on the gender issue in western society. Am I a minority dissenter on trans-rational comprehension" of reality in this forum?
Holding a minority opinion as Supreme Court justice on a legal matter is ok. I don't think holding a dissenting view of reality is ok unless truth about reality is a matter of opinion also.
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Post by andrew on Aug 31, 2022 18:16:13 GMT -5
Yes. Maybe "trans-rational comprehension" is a more useful pointer? No, it is not a useful pointer. "trans-rational" is as meaningless as "trans-woman" to me. I am not being facetious. I don't accept the rationalization of gender at Psychology Today. I guess I am a minority dissenter on the gender issue in western society. Am I a minority dissenter on trans-rational comprehension" of reality in this forum? Holding a minority opinion as Supreme Court justice on a legal matter is ok. I don't think holding a dissenting view of reality is ok unless truth about reality is a matter of opinion also.
Current gender ideology is flawed, yeah. Gender studies was a significant part of my degree in the 90s, and it made sense at that point in time. It seems there has been redefinitions of key concepts at some point since then, and now it just doesn't make sense. Probably this discussion has no place here, but this is something I discuss on other social media at times.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2022 19:27:57 GMT -5
Yes, he suddenly started writing irrelevant things in the middle of the ongoing discussion and that makes us not to continue with him. Ganging upon me? Is that what you are instigating? Internecine strife is endemic in India. It's a cultural characteristic of the place. This is one reason why India is a mess as a nation. As a matter of fact, India was a British idea. The natives are all split into various cultural groups and none like the others. When I was there, I had to rent a car with a driver to visit all the Krishnamurti places: KFI in Chennai, schools in Rishi Valley, Bangalore, etc.. He was telling me everything about India. When I asked him about Kashmir, he said: "muslims, dirty fellas." He was a Tamil and Tamil Nadu was all he cared about. Same deal with the Punjabis in Punjab. And then there are the Sikhs. More divisiveness. And one had better watch it. Do the wrong thing, and a crowd will descend upon you and slap you for the offense.
Spiritual inquiry is not embarking on a journey to that other shore. It is the realization of evil in the inquirer.
This is what called missing the point of what others are trying to say. Once again, you are speaking irrelevant things as I said .
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2022 19:32:00 GMT -5
None of those statements are true, but if you have no existential questions, there's nothing to discuss. Most people who visit this site are interested in ND, and I was simply agreeing with what Laughter has been pointing to. Best wishes. What do you mean by existential questions? I am interested in human existence but not theories of existentialism that have nothing to do with real life. Why there is a suffering is the existential question. Why there is something instead of there simple being nothing is an existential question.
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Post by sree on Aug 31, 2022 22:03:33 GMT -5
No, it is not a useful pointer. "trans-rational" is as meaningless as "trans-woman" to me. I am not being facetious. I don't accept the rationalization of gender at Psychology Today. I guess I am a minority dissenter on the gender issue in western society. Am I a minority dissenter on trans-rational comprehension" of reality in this forum? Holding a minority opinion as Supreme Court justice on a legal matter is ok. I don't think holding a dissenting view of reality is ok unless truth about reality is a matter of opinion also.
Current gender ideology is flawed, yeah. Gender studies was a significant part of my degree in the 90s, and it made sense at that point in time. It seems there has been redefinitions of key concepts at some point since then, and now it just doesn't make sense. Probably this discussion has no place here, but this is something I discuss on other social media at times. Why not? Our consciousness is being conditioned as we speak. And this conditioning shapes perception of reality. A kid looks at his/her mother and the mother is not a woman. The kid tries to figure it out and zendancer comes along and says whatever he says. This comes back to our inquiry into the perception of reality. Spirituality has to do with right perception that leads to right conduct. Am I wrong?
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Post by sree on Aug 31, 2022 22:05:17 GMT -5
What do you mean by existential questions? I am interested in human existence but not theories of existentialism that have nothing to do with real life. Why there is a suffering is the existential question. Why there is something instead of there simple being nothing is an existential question. Yes, i agree. Can you expand on that?
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Post by sree on Aug 31, 2022 22:07:33 GMT -5
Ganging upon me? Is that what you are instigating? Internecine strife is endemic in India. It's a cultural characteristic of the place. This is one reason why India is a mess as a nation. As a matter of fact, India was a British idea. The natives are all split into various cultural groups and none like the others. When I was there, I had to rent a car with a driver to visit all the Krishnamurti places: KFI in Chennai, schools in Rishi Valley, Bangalore, etc.. He was telling me everything about India. When I asked him about Kashmir, he said: "muslims, dirty fellas." He was a Tamil and Tamil Nadu was all he cared about. Same deal with the Punjabis in Punjab. And then there are the Sikhs. More divisiveness. And one had better watch it. Do the wrong thing, and a crowd will descend upon you and slap you for the offense.
Spiritual inquiry is not embarking on a journey to that other shore. It is the realization of evil in the inquirer.
This is what called missing the point of what others are trying to say. Once again, you are speaking irrelevant things as I said .Then you should correct me by pointing out the mistake.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2022 22:09:38 GMT -5
Why there is a suffering is the existential question. Why there is something instead of there simple being nothing is an existential question. Yes, i agree. Can you expand on that? When you raise a question like "Why am I suffering", that's an existential question.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2022 22:09:59 GMT -5
This is what called missing the point of what others are trying to say. Once again, you are speaking irrelevant things as I said .Then you should correct me by pointing out the mistake. I don't want to correct you.
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Post by sree on Aug 31, 2022 22:16:35 GMT -5
Yes. Maybe "trans-rational comprehension" is a more useful pointer? good with me I'm not fussy on this really, the point is the distinction between one kind of knowing, and another kind of knowing. As I'm sat here reflecting on it, the question I'm asking is, 'what is required in order to ''access'' that other knowing?'. I guess the first step is recognizing that the rational mind can't do it. So then what....is there anything that can be done to access the other knowing? Allowing oneself to become still perhaps...there's a sort of 'dropping' involved, a coming to rest in the 'space beyond'. And in that 'space', there is 'being' rather than 'doing'. Does that all sound like claptrap Sree? (That's okay if it does ) It would, if it doesn't help solve daily life problems. Can you point to one daily life problem that requires trans-rational comprehension for resolution?
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Post by sree on Aug 31, 2022 22:19:04 GMT -5
Then you should correct me by pointing out the mistake. I don't want to correct you. You don't want to correct my mistake but you would point it out. For what reason?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2022 22:42:09 GMT -5
I don't want to correct you. You don't want to correct my mistake but you would point it out. For what reason? I told you that you are writing irrelevant things in the ongoing dialog. What else you want me add on that ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2022 22:44:09 GMT -5
I don't want to correct you. You don't want to correct my mistake but you would point it out. For what reason? I told you that you are writing irrelevant things in the ongoing dialog. What else you want me add on that ?
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