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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 12:02:39 GMT -5
No. And I don't think that is Laffy's position, but rather, he just sees that the author has and writes with a sense of humor. My sense upon initial reading was that certain contradictions, hypocrisies, overstatements were on purpose to illuminate the very fallacy of thinking of oneself as enlightened, and trying to encapsulate how life is for the SR, into a coherent story. I guess just because that's what I got out of reading the books, doesn't necessarily mean that was the intention. But again, who knows? (look how many times we've said this...and THAT is, in my estimation, by design). Yeah..perhaps. I agree, posing as the most enlightened dude ever right from the start in the first book comes across as him just having fun slaying holy cows and breaking taboos. But the further you read, the more you'll realize that he actually believes that, especially the parts where he criticizes the various traditions. What's also quite telling is that he doesn't get Zen and koans. That's typical for over-intellectual people. I've seen this on the forum a lot. Initially his criticizing of tradition put me off, but these days I see all too clearly just how much of a crutch tradition is if one is not willing to ultimately, completely let it go.....stomp on it even. (If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him, comes to mind here...)
One can still 'get' Zen and Koans but see the whole dealy, ultimately, as unnecessary.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 12:13:01 GMT -5
TMT (2)
Jed: Once in a while I climb up into the belfry and look around for bats. I head into my head to make sure that there are no messes anywhere, no pockets of darkness, no tracks in the dust, no piles of droppings. Like an old, unarmed night watchman making his rounds, I do a quick tour of the joint. I don’t do it in a very alert or cautious manner; I’m not too concerned that there would be anything to find or, if there was, that removal would pose any great challenge.
Death especially is an area where I want to remain a bit vigilant. I don’t feel any fear or concern about my death, I don’t attach any importance to it, but it seems like the kind of thing that could sneak something past me, so I keep an eye out. I’ve been in a dozen situations in the last decade where I figured it was all over, and never were there any unpleasant surprises about my reaction. In every situation I felt intrigued, ready, grateful. I didn’t panic or react fearfully, so I'm reasonably sure that I don’t have much in the way of death demons lurking about. It would be interesting if I did, but I don’t think I do. My day-to-day persona is another thing I keep a lazy sort of awareness about. I interact, I have a presence in the lives of other people and I have my own life to navigate through; my dreamstate existence. That’s something I pay attention to, but again, not much. It doesn’t take much thought or effort. I have this teacher/author thing going, but there’s no real danger of that pulling me back down into the perinatal states commonly mistaken for waking life. I don’t think anything could pull me back down, but there’s no harm in this minimal sort of mindfulness. Jed McKenna, Spiritual Warfare, Chapter 26 Hmmm.....almost sounds as though there IS in fact a bit of fear lurking about regarding the possibility of getting sucked back in.....?
Odd.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 12:19:01 GMT -5
Ramana Maharshi & The Outward Only Club (2)
Jed:it's more like a mountain of ignorance that has to be pulverized into particulate, stone by stone. Jed McKenna, Spiritual Warfare, Chapter 19 Here, he's just flat out wrong.  I agree. And dare I say it sounds an awful lot like 'obliterate/destroy'...? |
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Post by satchitananda on Aug 5, 2019 12:29:37 GMT -5
To me it's obvious that he hasn't really suffered if he has to ask that question . Here's my impression: He obviously doesn't have a clue what peace of mind means. His "I am fully enlightened, self/truth-realized, abiding non-dual awareness etc." is just identity poker of the most advanced kind. IMO, he knows all too well how suffering feels, quite simply because he still is in a state of suffering. It's all just mental patch work. By denying peace of mind he fails the litmus test for realization. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 16:30:30 GMT -5
To me it's obvious that he hasn't really suffered if he has to ask that question . Here's my impression: He obviously doesn't have a clue what peace of mind means. His "I am fully enlightened, self/truth-realized, abiding non-dual awareness etc." is just identity poker of the most advanced kind. IMO, he knows all too well how suffering feels, quite simply because he still is in a state of suffering. It's all just mental patch work. Yeah, that was my thought too after reading that quote. He's clearly defining "peace of mind," as a sort of 'donning of rose colored glasses' rather than an absence.
Peace of mind as an absence, could never be any of those things he attributes to it.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 5, 2019 16:30:40 GMT -5
Peace of mind
To someone like me, peace of mind is the enemy. It’s the worst thing in the world. It’s the cow, it’s the inmate, it’s the hairless, fetal thing that's still plugged into the matrix. I mean, peace of mind, what’s the point? To me it's obvious that he hasn't really suffered if he has to ask that question . You need the rest of the paragraph for context. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 5, 2019 16:47:03 GMT -5
Well, that got people talking, right? I want to make it clear here.. 'Jed' is someone who sees things with clarity. In my book, Clarity and seeing the world/ existence/reality/ Atman/ Brahman (insert here for any other Eastern/Western definition of this life) without the blindfold is that elusive state of enlightenment, even though I hate the word with a vengeance, in the same way I hate the word 'God'. That does not mean 'Jed' hasn't played the survival game with the rest of them. He has - by the act of having written those books, and by continuing to write. He is not interested in fame, and not so much in fortune, but he IS interested in having a comfortable existence where he doesn't have to face hordes of people who are nowhere near his level of comprehension. They never have been, ever. He is not in the same league of intellectuals as for instance Ken Wilber, whose neuronal connections would upscale the Everest, given the chance. In my book - this wilberism is a handicap, and 'Jed' certainly doesn't suffer from that. He is clever, somewhat cold, but that hasn't always been that way. It's just that seeing the state of humanity without a blindfold can be pretty heart-breaking, and he got it when still a teen. In a way - he has created his own cozy cave IN the world, instead of hanging off the pagoda roof somewhere in Asia, or worse, joining the Western spiritual circus. Cheers.
I've been reading your blog a bit (finished chapter 1 & 2). I think I browsed thru it a couple of years ago and it didn't leave a distinct impression apart from 'why does she care that much about some random internet guy?' But having read the trilogy now, I have to say your blog is a fascinating read. I like your style and your no-nonsense, down-to-earth attitude. Quite the contrary to Jed's purely intellectual no-nonsense attitude. It also seems that we somehow have come to the same (or at least similar) conclusions re: Jed's actual level of realization and actual state of being. Looking at the books from a mere intellectual perspective, I have to say that they are full of interesting insights and Jed has definitely realized something, even though it's not what he thinks it is. As such, I see the books of value. However, looking at the books from a mere feeling perspective, I can't say that reading these books left me in high spirits. Jed seems to be a rather sad and lonely guy who feels very much disconnected from the world. That's what comes thru to me from reading between the lines. There's always a certain sadness, lostness, purposelessness and loneliness present when he talks about what it's like to be Jed, the fully awake, truth-realized ex-spiritual-warrior.
Sometimes you don't even have to read between the lines, you just have read how he characterizes the 'awakened/truth-realized' being as some kind of orphan and the life after awakening/truth-realization as some kind of cast away experience on a desert island. That's certainly not the enlightened state of being. That's exactly what the state of separation feels like. I've got more to say but I think I'll finish reading your blog first. You've already confirmed a ton of suspicions I got about the author from reading the books. So why does UG call his "enlightenment" the calamity? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 5, 2019 16:53:08 GMT -5
Peace of mind
Jed: ‘In the final analysis,’ said the Dalai Lama, ‘the hope of every person is simply peace of mind.’ I agree with the Dalai Lama: peace of mind—Spiritual Consonance—is what virtually all seekers of all places and all times are really seeking. It all makes perfect sense when you look at it that way. Why is everyone seeking and no one finding? Because they’re not seeking truth or growth or change, they’re seeking peace of mind. The rest is just dressing. What’s so bad about peace of mind? Nothing’s wrong with it, it just doesn’t register with someone like [me]. Personally, I think about this idea of peace of mind and I shudder in revulsion. To me, it's just a fancy way of saying that people just want to keep munching their cud and plodding along, head down, surrounded by herd mates: unconscious, unengaged, unalive. To someone like me, peace of mind is the enemy. It’s the worst thing in the world. It’s the cow, it’s the inmate, it’s the hairless, fetal thing that's still plugged into the matrix. I mean, peace of mind, what’s the point?
Jed McKenna, Spiritual Warfare, Chapter 28 Well, he is right. I had the exact same sentiment way back, and without reading those words above. I am not a 'Jed' scholar in the way some people dissect his every passage and utterance. Heck, I galloped through his first three books at speed because at that point I had already had no need for them. I just understand exactly where he is, because I happened to arrive at a very similar place, hence what he attempts to convey makes perfect sense to me.
HOWEVER. If you look at your earlier passage, Jed says "I am happy, content, usually either amused or cheerfully engaged, and yet if I were to receive a message informing me that my death would occur in exactly five minutes, I would have no reaction except to clear my mind and shift my attention to what a nice time I’ve had here and allow my gratitude to well up and engulf me."
And that is also true. Sometimes gratitude for being alive and for having had a chance to experience this life - comes out of nowhere and washes over me. I am still a misanthrope and see life as essentially a nightmare, in the same way Richard Rose saw it. Whatever that 'peace of mind' thingy is - it is not a natural state of the human mind. It is a temporary sporadic occurrence.
sdp likes twice... |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 5, 2019 16:55:19 GMT -5
Here's my impression: He obviously doesn't have a clue what peace of mind means. His "I am fully enlightened, self/truth-realized, abiding non-dual awareness etc." is just identity poker of the most advanced kind. IMO, he knows all too well how suffering feels, quite simply because he still is in a state of suffering. It's all just mental patch work. By denying peace of mind he fails the litmus test for realization. No...as I've said before, peace of mind (or happiness) is cheap. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 17:06:17 GMT -5
By denying peace of mind he fails the litmus test for realization. No...as I've said before, peace of mind (or happiness) is cheap. Abidance in being = peace of mind. "Cheap" is a value judgement. The peace of being is beyond all human/mind value judgements. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 5, 2019 17:15:55 GMT -5
No...as I've said before, peace of mind (or happiness) is cheap. Abidance in being = peace of mind. "Cheap" is a value judgement. The peace of being is beyond all human/mind value judgements. Then peace of mind or happiness...not the right words to use. |
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Post by laughter on Aug 5, 2019 18:16:56 GMT -5
Here, he's just flat out wrong. I agree. And dare I say it sounds an awful lot like 'obliterate/destroy'...? Well, to be clear about what I mean, I can see an incremental process happening that way for some people, and the more drawn out and gradual it is for them, the less of a discontinuity self-realization will be. Some people talk about drama at the point of realization, and it can happen that way too. From what I've read of Jed in the first book and in this thread, seems he thinks this gradual process is necessary and that there's always a particular pattern to it. |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 5, 2019 19:42:06 GMT -5
Well, he is right. I had the exact same sentiment way back, and without reading those words above. I am not a 'Jed' scholar in the way some people dissect his every passage and utterance. Heck, I galloped through his first three books at speed because at that point I had already had no need for them. I just understand exactly where he is, because I happened to arrive at a very similar place, hence what he attempts to convey makes perfect sense to me.
I can perfectly relate to what he writes as well. And it also makes perfect sense. The difference is that Jed thinks it's enlightenment, and I know with absolute certainty that it ain't. In the best case scenario (i.e. if he's a 'walker') it's mind-enlightenment. In the worst case scenario (i.e. if he's just a 'talker') it's one of the worst kind of self-delusion (god-complex). |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 5, 2019 20:13:32 GMT -5
I've been reading your blog a bit (finished chapter 1 & 2). I think I browsed thru it a couple of years ago and it didn't leave a distinct impression apart from 'why does she care that much about some random internet guy?' But having read the trilogy now, I have to say your blog is a fascinating read. I like your style and your no-nonsense, down-to-earth attitude. Quite the contrary to Jed's purely intellectual no-nonsense attitude. It also seems that we somehow have come to the same (or at least similar) conclusions re: Jed's actual level of realization and actual state of being. Looking at the books from a mere intellectual perspective, I have to say that they are full of interesting insights and Jed has definitely realized something, even though it's not what he thinks it is. As such, I see the books of value. However, looking at the books from a mere feeling perspective, I can't say that reading these books left me in high spirits. Jed seems to be a rather sad and lonely guy who feels very much disconnected from the world. That's what comes thru to me from reading between the lines. There's always a certain sadness, lostness, purposelessness and loneliness present when he talks about what it's like to be Jed, the fully awake, truth-realized ex-spiritual-warrior. Sometimes you don't even have to read between the lines, you just have read how he characterizes the 'awakened/truth-realized' being as some kind of orphan and the life after awakening/truth-realization as some kind of cast away experience on a desert island. That's certainly not the enlightened state of being. That's exactly what the state of separation feels like. I've got more to say but I think I'll finish reading your blog first. You've already confirmed a ton of suspicions I got about the author from reading the books. Some people see things at a depth hardly noticeable to the majority. Hence, Jed will never be understood by his fellow human beings who THINK they delve deep, but in reality - are hardly scratching the surface of being and existence. Existence is harsh. It is harsher than most so called first world citizens will ever comprehend. They are protected by a thin veneer of 'civilization', but let me tell you something... most of this planet still lives in the Dark Ages, and the Reality bites one in the ass on a daily basis. Being a tourist on a two week to other parts of the world - simply doesn't cut it. As Richard Rose said.. "Life isn’t pleasure, it’s constant struggle driven by relentless tension. Look out the window. It’s a bloody carnage out there. Everything’s trying to eat something else, just so it can stay alive long enough to reproduce and provide more food and fertilizer for this slaughterhouse.”
That is all I have to say about the state of enlightenment. It is all a lie. Jed knows that. I know that. UG knew that. In case you are alluding to your experiences in Cambodia, I've been to Cambodia and neighboring countries as well, and that roughly 10 years before you went there. So what you are talking about on your blog sounds familiar. When I saw that picture you took from the road to SHV, I actually had trouble recalling seeing any paved roads at all outside of PP or Angkor Wat at the time. So what you may call harsh conditions has probably already been a vast improvement in comparison to what I encountered there a decade earlier. And this comparison thing is important to keep in mind. If you move from a 1st world country to a 3rd world country without proper preparations (studying history, customs, culture and language), that can be the shock of your life because the contrast is so extreme. The mistake many people make is looking at the living standards they encounter from the perspective of living standards they are used to. What may seem atrocious conditions to the western mind, often is just normal to local minds. Another thing to keep in mind is LOA, i.e. the fact that the people and circumstances you encounter are always a match to and reflect your actual inner state of being. So if someone who is traumatized goes to such a place what kind of people will s/he encounter? And what kind of stories will s/he then tell about that place and what conclusions will s/he draw about that country? Tricky business. Said that, it's probably true that most of the world - technologically speaking - lives in the dark ages. But it is has been my personal experience based on visiting and actually living in such place that it's the other way around in terms of mental attitude. I don't much about Rose, I've read a lot of 'great teacher' reviews about him, but if that quote is indicative of his general perspective, then I'm very disappointed. |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 5, 2019 20:17:56 GMT -5
Ramana Maharshi & The Outward Only Club (2)
Jed:it's more like a mountain of ignorance that has to be pulverized into particulate, stone by stone. Jed McKenna, Spiritual Warfare, Chapter 19 Here, he's just flat out wrong. He's just been on one of his mental brimstone and fire trips again. You'll get used to that after a while.  |
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